Which Large format camera is Best for me?

Hello,

 

I am a 'professional shooter' for real estate and I would like to expand my knowledge and camera systems.

 

I absolutely love huge photos, I would like to shoot some photos that can be blown up big and crisp, like 8' x 6'

 

I have a GX680, 5D, 40D, 1Ds Mark II and I would like to get a large format camera that would do the job for the

huge prints.

 

Could you please shoot me in the right direction, I would really like to keep it under $2k to start but want a

quality system that I can add to as my knowledge grows.

 

I will be traveling and hiking with this rig to shoot nature.

 

Thank you for your time,

Matthew Graff

Matthew, one with a ton of movements for what you're wanting to do, maybe Ebony or Linhoff. A rail camera would it also a little cheaper if you don't mind it being more cumbersome that a field camera when traveling.

For travelling- the Chamonix is among the nice ones, and Walker is nice too.

I like the Sinarsystem, nice if you want several formats and maybe the most complete expandable system, but as Harris

said, more cumbersome when travelling. I had the Sinar Norma once, one of the lighter Sinars, topmodel from the sixties,

not very expensive, and quite compatible with the todays Sinars.

Being new to LF, I bought a used Calumet that had a nice Schneider 135mm lens. I don't suppose it's one of the world's finest cameras, but it did allow me to learn LF and camera operations for only +/-$300. I think it was a good investment. JR

If you do real estate you will need a camera capable of wide angle (wide angle today on 4x5 can mean a lens as short as

35mm for film and 28mm for digital) so look at cameras capable as going as wide as you expect to need in the future as

well as now.

I'm partial to my K. B. Canham DLC45. It has light but rugged construction and is something of a hybrid between a field

camera and a rail camera. Currently I use a 210mm Schneider lens, but you could definitely go for a wider one - say 90 to

135 mm. It's also adaptable for a roll film back if you're interested in using 120 film.

If money is not a limiting factor, get an Arca Swiss Field camera -- the best of both worlds: light as a field camera but with the movements of a rail camera. Plus, you get unequaled precision...

wow 35mm on 4x5 film IS wide.

 

Last year I bought a Linhof Technikardan 45s for shooting architecture and travel and I sometimes throw it in a

backpack. I found a super clean one used for just under $3000 at B&H. At the time, KEH had a TK45 (not TK45s) for

around $1500. The Technikardan may be slightly heavier than a wood field camera, but I think it is much more useful for

architecture and may give you more flexibility in the future should you ever want to use a digital back with it. For 90mm

with moderate movements or with even wider lenses you will need the bag bellows. The bag bellows is much harder to

find used and a new one is about $700. Not a cheap system at all, but if you are using it for jobs it's well worth the

investment. Since I got it I haven't used my Sinar or Wista once.

35mm on 4x5 is very wide and to use it on your TKs or even the original TK all you need is the WA bellows and the 001035

lens board!

 

Try that with most other 4x5 cameras!

Forget 35mm on 4x5. It will not cover. A 47mm SuperAngulon xl covers 4x5. I am surprised if you want wider than 65mm (65mm on 4x5 is compareable to 18mm on 24x36mm). 65mm usually wants bag bellows and recessed lens board. The Arca Swiss , Canham and the Technicardan has been mentioned. Very nice options if you can afford it- and dont forget the bag bellows. 28 and 35mm wideangles are ment for digitalbacks, not for 4x5 film. On the other hand- a camera that is useable with a 35mm is very nice with all short lenses(like 47,65,75...), and probably ok if you will clip on a digitalback. Limited to 2 K, I still recommends Sinar, because you need a couple of lenses and a wideanglebagbellows too(the 65 NikkorSW(or 75 ,or 80,or 90 Nikkor , Fuji;Schneider;Rodenstock), and the 120 Nikkor SW and a for example a Schneider Symmar -S 210(or 180)can be good for you). Another option that can be even cheaper is Cambo. Cambo is good quality too. .

Erland,

 

While 28mm is a digital optic 35mm lenses pre-date digital and were designed for large format view cameras and film

(although Rodenstock also makes two 35mm lenses for digital and roll film as well).

 

The 35mm Apo Gradagon 4.5 covers a 125mm circle. That is the better part of a full 4x5" image area. So if you want the

effect of an extreme wide angle that a 35mm can give you it certainly is used on 45 film.

 

As for focal length comparisons to 24 x 36mm (35mm) that is a bit misleading as the format proportion of a 45 image is

different then the proportion of a 35mm frame. So are you comparing diagonal coverage or horizontal coverage?

 

A 20mm lens on 35mm gives 94° coverage horizontally. A 65mm on 4x5 is 86° horizontally so no, a 65mm on 4x5 is not

the same left to right coverage as an 18mm. The 55mm would be closer.

 

But all of this is beside the point. He shoots real estate and that does not always mean sweeping vistas of lawn and

house. It can be a shot of a pantry area or powder room or other very small room where you need to capture it and still

have the tripod out of the picture. In those cases a 90 may be far too long and a 65 can also be too long. But a 35mm or

a 45mm might just save the job. Even if you do have to crop the corners down.

I agree with the field camera idea. You can put it in back pack easily, and they are fairly cheap. A 75mm or 90mm lens on

a 4x5 format is a pretty wide angle, and may be what you are looking for. You may use caution though, because you could

get a lens with a focal length too small to use on a field camera with a fixed bellows on it (ie, the lens focuses at infinity at a

bellows extension equal to the focal length of the lens). You may also get some convergence in the corners with a very wide

angle lens, and that may be an issue with your wish to take pictures of houses, etc, but great for lanscapes. Wista has a

camera that is under $1000 bucks, and you can probably find a used one online quite easily and cheap. I use a Sinar A1

rail type 4x5 so it doesn't fit in a back pack all that easily, but I can break it down and make it go into an old army pack I

bought some years ago.

Toyo Field 45

Great ideas guys, I do not want it for Real Estate and am sorry if I gave that impression.

 

I just wanted to know if a 4x5 6x9 or 8x10 would produce a tack sharp 8' x 6' print.

 

I plan on using it for landscape photography, not wildlife or real estate.

 

I like the rail systems on those cameras but am concerned about carrying it around, although I have hiked mountains and shot with the GX680 and that seems cumbersome to me.

 

I really like the Linhof 4x5 Master Technika 3000, but its way out of my price range, I am also a fan of the 4x5 Technikardan 45s, once again out of my price range.

 

I would love a camera that I could pack with me, hike to a location and wait for the light to be right and hope I got the exposure correct :-)

 

Kind of funny, have you seen this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/474058-REG/Bulldog__4x5_Self_Assembly_Camera_Kit.html

With the refinement of your question, many of the field cameras would work for you. Some of the previous

answers, and how I would have answered before, were providing cameras that would do architecture conveniently and

precisely, including very short focal length lenses.. The Canham field cameras are very nice, but would

probably use up too much of your budget. The are many wooden folders, e.g., Tachihara, Wista, Shen Hao, etc.

Mostly they have the same general concept of how they fold / unfold. The differences are weight, maximum

extension, manufacturing quality, country of origin, whether they have interchangeable bellows (bag bellows will

help will lenses shorter than 90 mm), and of course price. I suggest buying one of these and one or two lenses

to start with. 90 and 180 mm would be a good choice, or 120 and 210 mm, for a moderate wide angle and a normal

to slightly long normal. I started with a Wista DX and for several years had only one lens, a 180 mm. I

didn't feel that much lack having only having only one lens. (The 180 mm is still my most use focal length.)

Don't worry too much

about which camera to get. After using it awhile you will learn whether LF photography is for you, and if it is,

what you want in a camera. If some particular features matter to you, you can trade in the camera and get a

better one. Unlike small and medium format photography, lenses don't have proprietary mounts, so you can keep

the lenses. You might have to get new lens boards. There are plenty of similar questions in the Forum

Archives under Beginner's Questions and Cameras, so you might also want to browse some previous threads for more

ideas.

 

If you really want the highest quality 6 x 8 foot print, then 8x10 inch format would be better than 4x5 inch --

10x enlargement instead of 20x. If you want to get an approximate idea of print quality, have one of your

medium format films enlarged by these factors. By 8x10 is a lot more to carry around, and I'm not sure that it

is the way to start; you are more likely to get discouraged -- if you thought that a GX680 was cumbersome....

Ansel Adams said in response to the question, "what kind of camera do you use?" was "the biggest one I can carry". So maybe the 8x10 is the way to go.

Hi

 

since noone has mentioned it I'll say I'm very happy with my Toho FX-45 I understand they're also copied by someone. For a fine review check out (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm) I bought mine after reading this review. Its light its versatile and (being a rail camera) has fully unrestricted movements (although base tilts and center swings do require thinking :-)

 

I've seen them on ebay for US$800 (pardon the ugly mug in the reference shot below :-)<div></div>

Lol Chris, I love the photo!

 

Ansel Adams was definatly a bad ass.

 

Thank you Micheal for the info!

 

I will look into a Toho and I was looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&category=15247&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DK%252BD%26otn%3D3%26ps%3D5&viewitem=&item=180275959650&_trksid=p4506.m7 what do you think of that setup?

 

Now to lenses :-), what brands do you think are the clearest/sharpest, I have spent over 6k a lens for my Canon systems but I am not ready for that yet.

Matthew

<P>

I've only heard good things about the Shen's so I don't reckon you'd go badly there. I was seriously tempted to get

a folding wood 'field' camera myself. What I end up doing (when backpacking) is to leave the rail attached to the

tripod then all I have to do is attach the bellows (simple). Speeds things up somewhat.

<P>

WRT lenses, well, I have Fujinon lenses (I *was* living in Japan at the time) but if I had the money back in my

hand now I'd probably swap my 90mm for the Nikkor. I'd keep my 180mm cos 1) it was *really cheap* and 2) the

image quality is beautiful (I just can't fault this lens).

This picture (for example)

<P>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/6663357-md.jpg" alt="moss" border="0" height="533" width="679">

<br>

was taken with the 180mm and a 400 dpi 40 inch wide print of it is so sharp you

can still see the spooring bodies on the bottoms of the ferns and make out

the moss strands!

<P>

btw ... the mug shot is a "proud father" type of picture I sent to a mate

who'd been nagging and teasing me for years about getting my own big camera.

<P>

I hope you enjoy what ever you get :-)

Ohh ... perhaps (given your equipment list) this will be a point you know well already, but vibration really is a killer in this realm. I've now gone totally paranoid on damping when I've set up (I'm even contemplating changing tripods to one by stabil [http://www.stabil.nu/english/index.html]). Anwyay ...

 

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2008/03/faith-restored.html

 

might be some other things in there for part time reading too ...

Great info Chris, I will note that my carbon fiber tripod will not do the trick ;-)

Matthew

 

wrt prices, my 180mm was $50 (with a copal shutter) and my 90mm was $240 (with a seikonic shutter) There's a picture in my gallery (in single photo's) which is in my stair case taken with the 90mm. Its printed to about 60 inches and people always say "gosh" when they see it. Drum scans (which cost more than some of my lenses :`( give nice results on well exposed chromes. BTW ... I've been tempted by the Fujinon f5.6 (mine's the f8) but the weight is hight. Perhaps the Nikkon would be the best (about $700 I think??)

 

since you mentioned "and hope I got the exposure correct :-)" try this method if you like (http://home.people.net.au/~cjeastwd/photography/film/digiExposure.html)

 

anyway, certainly good lenses for LF are much more modestly priced than SLR lenses

The Toho can't be beaten for backpacking!

Matthew. This is on ebay too. Item number: 350088855114 Toyo 45 a with 180mm Fujinon. Interesting.

 

Bob. You are right in everything. I did argue against you of budgetreasons. If it wasnt for my own budgets I

really look to the Technicardan myself ( I do LF for personal stuff, but bread and butter is digital and steals

my budget).

 

Matthew . About sharpest. The sharpest I have seen is a Rodenstock Sironar Multicoated 210(the 80degree wide

version in a copal 3 shutter), and for Macro The Rodenstock Macro Sironar 210( the only Lf macro I have). People

says it is difficult to spot differences between Fujinon, Schneider, Rodenstock and Nikon because all are very

good. I have used Rodenstock ,Nikon and Schneiderlenses fro the last 4 decades, and I think that it might have

been a visible improvement when Schneider upgraded the Symmar to the Symmar-S. After that the improvements are

even harder to identify.I am not sure about this. Anything Multicoated are probably newish and very sharp.

For 150mm and longer, almost everything works fine. For 135mm I believe in the Schneider Apo Symmar L or the

Rodenstock Apo Sironar S, because they with their 75 degree angle covers a bit more than the rest(super in all

lenghts, but you don`t needto spend so much on longer 4x5 lenses).

Now if you want to backpack, get yourself a used 4x5 Speed Graphic. There are no back adjustments, but the front will do everything you require for landscapes; rise, fall, tilt and swing. You won't spend a lot and you'll learn the ins and outs of large format.