Which 35mm Rangefinder? Contax G1 or Bessa R

>>>Warning: Minor Novel Here<<<

 

Hiya all,

 

I guess this question has been asked a hundred times already and I'm

famous for not getting the right info out of search engines.

 

Anyhow, after an eternity of 35mm SLRs and cheap zooms someone

introduced to me to the wonder that is 35mm Rangefinder cameras in

mid 2002. So I got myself a Canon QL17 for $10 shortly afterwards and

the corruption began. So in October last year I got brave and started

to sell off my Canon EOS gear. By January I had sold it all, bought

the necessary new Hasselblad lens and with the left over cash buy a

35mm rangefinder system. So I made a list/chart thingy in December

with Hasselblad Xpan/Fuji TX1, Bessa R, Bessa R2, Leica M3/M6, Canon

P and Konica Hexar on it. Then over time did some research into each,

read feed back and got options on each one, and according marked the

chart with positives and negatives.

 

Well to my surprise the Voigtlander Bessa R won (I was gunning for

the Xpan originally). So I decided that's what I would buy. However I

completely forgot the Contax G series cameras. After a quick eleventh

hour comparison, I'm stuck!

 

Here's the sticky points-

Cost:

A Contax G1 2nd hand costs the same as a new Voigtlander Bessa R!

 

 

The Contax G lenses seem reasonably priced 2nd hand and on par with

new prices for Cosina Voigtlander lenses

 

 

Lens Choice:

Bessa R uses 39mm LTM mount, so lens choice is much greater

 

 

Being a proud 6x6 Hasselblad owner, I'm already know how good Carl

Zeiss optics are and Contax use Zeiss glass... however I don't see a

little red T* on the Voigtlander lenses

 

 

I use to own a Tamron 14mm f2.8 for my EOS cameras, which I miss

terribly, so...

15mm f4.5 for the Bessa R - $349 ~ 16mm f8 for the Contax - $2500

(unless the 15mm f4.5 Contax mount lens that Stephan Gandy sells will

fit the Contax G camera bodies or do what everyone else does and get

Bessa L with a 15mm... but that means another camera to cart around)

 

Camera Operation:

Bessa R is a good old-fashioned mechanical camera, no battery drain

for those long exposure night shots I like. Contax G1 reminds me of

my EOS-5! So I assume that the camera sucks the batteries dry for

those long exposure night shots I like.

 

 

Bessa R is mechanical; the Contax G1 is electronic

(in the words of my Grandfather "The more buttons it has, the more

things to go wrong with it!")

 

 

The Bessa R uses framelines and the Contax G1 uses some fancy

electronic rangefinder

(http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?

s=&threadid=253) - I have never used a camera with framelines before

and I'm slightly uncertain. But my sister's Pentax P+S has same style

of rangefinder that the G1 employs and I'm quite happy with it.

 

 

If it's any help my three favourite styles of Photography are

landscapes, architectural and photo-journal type stuff. The two main

reasons why I want to get a rangefinder are-

A) Small and light compared to it's 35mm SLR cousin, which is good

for long hikes into the wilderness on location scouting missions,

before I hire the necessary sherpas or helicopter in a 4x5.

B) Discrete and they don't look expensive. Even the cheapest 35mm SLR

I use to own got the scary-suspicious look from strangers in the

street, however with my Hasselblad or the Konica Hexar I borrowed

once... no one battered an eyelid!

 

...So with all that said... advice please?

 

A big thank you in advance,

 

Stu :)

<p>If you want something discreet, think about the noise. The Bessa is quieter than an SLR, but not very much so. As for the Contax, I don't know -- but I think I've read that when it comes to the end of a film it automatically rewinds it. BZZZZZZZZZZZZ.</p><p>Oh, just to confuse you: If you want 39mm lenses but don't like framelines, there are other options: my brassed but sound Canon L3, bought a couple of months ago for <a href="http://www.xe.com/">9000 yen</a>, is a very practical beast. The L1/L2/L3 threesome are a lot less common than a Canon P, but by no means rare.</p>

You grandfather is generally correct about 'buttons' but, in fact, the more cheaply a camera is made...the poorer the build quality (mechanical OR electronic) the more things will go wrong with it and, in this category, the Contax and the Bessa are good choices.

 

One option, the best of both worlds, is the Bessa R2C which uses the really fantastic original Contax rangefinder lenses which are, of course, only available used. They give you a classic Zeiss look but with all of the advantagtes of a modern rangefinder body.

 

I have the G2 and have used it in many situations where it was important to be unobtrusive. What gets a photographer 'noticed' inappropriately is their actions...bouncing around...trying to frame the shot...that is much more distracting than the whisper of the film advance. I have been in situations where the performer stopped her act to tell the Leica photographer to 'Put the damn camera away!" because of his movements in her field of view. The G2 that I had was never noticed...or commented upon.

 

However, when the G2 IS noticed, most people have the same question..."Is it digital?" when I say no, they wander off content that there is nothing to look at.

 

I remember a story about one of the NG photogs who was trying to explain to the villagers that he was a photographer. They seemed doubtful and so, to prove his point, he brought out his Leica M6. The villagers just laughed. Then he brought out his Nikon F5 and some HUGE lens attached and THAT was sufficient proof that he was, indeed, a 'photographer'.

<i>Then over time did some research into each, read feed back and got

options on each one, and according marked the chart with positives and

negatives.</i>

 

<p>

 

<i>Well to my surprise the Voigtlander Bessa R won (I was gunning for

the Xpan originally). So I decided that's what I would buy. However I

completely forgot the Contax G series cameras. After a quick eleventh

hour comparison, I'm stuck!</i>

 

<p>

 

I'd suggest going someplace where you can pick them up, put them to

your eye, focus, and click the shutter. I had also decided that on

paper, the Contax G would be a better deal for me than a Leica. Until

I handled the Contax. And the Leica. To make a long story short, I

left with a Leica, even though I was "jsut looking" and wasn't really

intending to buy. No buyer's remorse. I'm really glad I did.

 

<p>

 

It sounds as if it's too late in your case, but I definitely wouldn't

recommend selling an SLR to buy a rangefinder. Both are great tools,

but there are many cases where it's advantageous to have both.

Sometimes, you want a nail; other times, a screw.

Stuart, the Contax G series and the Voigtlaners are very different beasts. The Contax gives you automation with a very solid body at the expense of greater weight. Like many modern-day cameras, they're battery dependent. Dead batteries = door stop.

 

The Contax is an autofocus camera first with viewfinder aids for manual focus.

 

The Voigtlander Bessa cameras aren't nearly as heavy but not quite as refined. That's not to say that they're bad -- but the quality of construction isn't the same as the Contax. The Bessa cameras are all manual with batteries providing power for the meter only. Lose your battery power, and you keep shooting -- although you must guess on exposure.

 

Regarding the T* -- that's a marking from Carl Zeiss to be placed only on Carl Zeiss lenses. No need to worry, all lenses from reputable manufacturers are multi-coated, including the Bessa lenses, which are quite good and reputedly much better than the other lenses Cosina makes.

 

The Bessa R series shutters aren't that quiet -- certainly not as quiet as the Konica Hexar or a Leica. Out on the street, it's not a problem, because the street noise will be greater than the shutter.

 

Much of your decision will come down to whether you want an automated camera or a manual camera. One other option is to buy the Bessa-R2, which is an improved version of the R and uses the Leica M-mount. That opens a much wider range of lenses. You can still use LTM lenses with an adapter.

 

In either case, viewfinder photography is a whole new world, and one that might inspire or frustrate you, depending on your ability to adapt your shooting style. If you've already moved on to 6x6, then you probably won't have many difficulties.

 

Best of luck to you in your quest.

I agree with the poster above -- if you want discreet, the Bessa (any of them) may not to be to your liking. Not as loud as the mirror slap of an SLR, but not exactly quiet. However, if you still do want a CV, get an R2 rather than the R -- I used to own an R; I still own an R2.

 

If you want quiet and discreet, other then the obvious "red dot," you might also want to consider an Olympus XA for your street PJ type of images.

I've owned the Contax G1 and currently own the Bessa R. The Contax G1 is a high class point and shoot, while the Bessa R is a good "user" manual RF camera. The G1's autofocus is a little noisy, and the manual focus is non-intuitive. But the construction quality is top notch and aperture priority is very handy. The autofocus is very similar to what SLR users are used to - focus on the center and reframe to shoot. The manual focus system is hokey though and I don't know how well it would have worked for hyperfocial shooting.

 

The Bessa R seems cheaply made, but people's experience is that it is reasonably durable. It is much more friendly to someone who wants an old fashioned manual camera. Lenses are cheaper and more plentiful.

 

Note that having owned both, I think the Bessa R shutter is less "harsh" sounding than the Bessa R2. But while the R feels cheap, the R2 feels quite solid.

 

If you generally shoot wide angles, and don't mind the sound of motorized film advance, I'd suggest you get the Hexar RF (used). It is a superior camera to the Bessa R, and pretty much the equal of the Contax G1 - but with access to more and cheaper lenses.

 

The old Canon RF's are nice cameras, but you'll have to figure in a CLA.

<p>The R2, recommended above, is a fair amount more expensive than

the R. It does indeed let you use lenses that the R doesn't let you use,

but these lenses are likely to be expensive. Depending on the price

difference between the R and the R2, your finances, etc., it might be

better to get an R than an R2 for a start.</p><p>The R2C, also

recommended above, is a fair amount more expensive than the R2, let

alone the R. You'll be able to use lenses intended for the Kiev, which are

available at hilariously low prices. (NB

you won't be able to use lenses intended for the Leica or R(2).)</p>

"A Contax G1 2nd hand costs the same as a new Voigtlander Bessa R!"

 

B&H has quite a few "Demo" Kits G1+50mm+TLA200 for $599. A lot of camera for not much money...

 

The G1 is different, I came from the true contax RF's of the 50's...but you can easily adapt to it's quirks. Quality is amazing, but it is quite different from a mechanical rangefinder camera

Canon L1. So cool! And only 45 years young!

As a G aficionado, I'd say go with the G system. It's a tad noisy, but the only

reason not to have the quality of the contax optics is if you're going to spend

the money for Leica optics on the Bessa. I take my G1 everywhere--it's

convenient for travel--and the lenses are spectacular, even the highly

criticized 35/2, which is my mainstay. If you need a flash, pick up a TLA 20 or

30 on e-bay, not the TLA 200--it's too much flash, too much money, with too

little control. Best of luck.

Have a look on the Mamiya 7 Rangefinder as well!

 

Volker