Where's the Nikon tradition..??

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by over exposure, Oct 3, 2003.

  1. Hi friends at photo-net,

    Recently, i must say I'm disappointed from Nikon approach. Is a
    company that has built a reputation over a progress combined with a
    lot of tradition in their cameras. From a while, even if after many
    others, this doesn't exist anymore in my opinion.
    I'm not just starting another "No G lenses" post, I just don't like
    that everything done till yesterday is left in total silence and with
    no attention at all.
    I know that this is the digital era, and I'm not concerned by it, but
    I think that even if the FM3a is just in sale for new, the tradition
    is lost, and a cellular-phone kind ogf marketing reigns over decades
    of cameras built with the attention for the neeeds of every user.

    Just wanted to share my thoughts and hear some opinion.

  2. Try a F5 with an AF-s lens and you´ll forget all the tradition...
  3. I think the pattern is rather clear: it is digital that people want today, it is digital that ensures large profit, it is digital where they intend to put their designing and marketing efforts. Do I like this? Nope. I can't stand watching a brand whose name was associated with sturdy, reliable and (subjectively speaking) very fascinating products, such as the FM and F series, currently invest on things which seem to be light-years far from their tradition. I can't stand it... nor change it.

    And, incidently, I can't believe they easily managed to make us accept that it is normal to pay for a digital F80 (i.e. D100) as much as we amateurs would never have paid for a F5. Yesterday we considered it absurd to spend such a fortune for a professional, absolutely reliable, weather-proof and super-fast camera. Today we find it normal to pay the same money for an amateur, though very nice, Dslr. All of this from one who uses everything from 6x6 to coolpix, with no intention to start a fight whatsoever. Cheers
  4. It's called nostalgia. A few years ago it was about autofocus bodies versus the old rugged F's, when men were men and all that.
  5. umd


    Nikon produces:<br><br>

    - Manual film cameras (FM series)<br>
    - AF film cameras with traditional Nikon build quality (F5, F100)<br>
    - Digital cameras with traditional Nikon build quality (D1, D2 series)<br>
    - And lots of consumer stuff<br><br>

    And all that share one common thing, the F mount.<br><br>

    What else do you want?<br><br>

    Do you know any other brand that gives all this?
  6. This thought came to mind for me when Kodak announced it would no longer do ANY research and development in ANY FILM. They are now concentrating all research in digital. Who'da thunk it.
  7. Nikon has always produced high, medium and low level cameras (where for low level I mean P&S and reflex EM style). Now it does exactly the same, be it digital or traditional. Of course coolpixes have a lot of interest being the only form of accessible digital in Nikon world, but you have D1s and D2(h, for now) which are completely in-line with the so-called tradition. Then you have medium level products like D100, still a bit expensive (just for now, in this transition moment).
    Once DSLRs become more affordable, the CP series will have their place as modern P&S cameras, nothing more.
    To me also it looks like nostalgia, the same we experienced in the transition from mf to af.
  8. Uhh, Tony, don't you mean Kodak stopped R&D of CONSUMER films... It's just plain
    FUD to say they've stopped development of ALL films.
  9. And the latest D (?D2h) matrix-meters with AI lenses, doesn't it, in the fine tradition of the FA and F4? So there's a little ray of sunshine for you.
  10. And they still support the «old» F3. Tradition does not mean to remain stuck in
    one place for ever. Many remember the stir and horror created by the
    appearance of automatic exposure in a camera, certainly a tradition today.
    Even Leica embraced it.

    What Nikon is doing is offering a bigger range of products, for a much more
    vast market. You want tradition, you buy sturdy built workhorses, F3 (you can
    still find them new), F5, D1X, FM3A (probably.) You want novelty, you buy
    N75, N80, CP 5400. You want in-between, you buy F100, D100. Great
    products, all, just not the same future, be it in months, years or decades.

    My only fear is that certain novelties of today could become tomorrow's
    tradition, and to be honest, I hope polycarbonate (hard as I tried, I could never
    like the feeling of it) and the «G» thing won't be in that category. ;-)
  11. I have been using Nkons for over a couple of decades. I tried the newer gear, had two auto-focus lenses (primes, not the cheaper entry level zooms) fail in less than a year. I had auto-focus cameras just stop operating in conditions where there was a static build-up... had to remove the batteries to "reset" them. After a previous history of flawless service from my early generation Nikons, I too felt abandoned.

    What did I do? I got out my F3 and FM2, put on my AIS Nikkors and just kept shooting with great Nikon cameras. They might be old, but they are no less viable for those that favor feel, construction and dependablity over "new is better" hype. I never missed a shot with any Nikon manual focus camera, and even though my lenses are dinged and marred from years of hard use, they operate perfectly.

    Where's the Nikon tradition? Sitting on the used gear shelves of camera stores every where, waiting to be bought by those that don't care about the latest "wonder-zoom" that Popular Photography magazine is drooling over. I might add, that tradition can now be had for a great price these days.
  12. Since they are out i can buy great 'old' Nikon film equipment at a great price!!!
    It was never so inexpensive.

  13. n m

    n m

    Technology has to move on sometime. The trouble with what you say, Mr. Lopez, is that you are too vague about your complaint. You seem to be referring to the incompatibilities between AI lenses and newer Nikon mounts, and the G lens style? I do not think new Nikon users are very bothered. Their camera is an auto camera and they expect auto lenses. If they want the old style, they can find it used, very easily.

    I have a feeling that if it cost a company an extra $5 for a feature of ensuring compatibility, they would be selling it in the camera $100 more than the model that did not have it. It is the specification ladder that means they can sell more expensive cameras at higher profit margins to people with more specific needs. For instance the reviews of cheaper equipment mainly reveal the juggling the company has done with the features to make the equipment compete at the price but not cannibalise the sales of items with higher margins. The opinions on these features are not unchanging. Many panned the N70 as not having manual tools such as DOF preview and multiple exposure. But on the other hand in the N70 you got a camera with 1/3 exposure stops, fast responding shutter and wind, with AI compatibility. The N80 sells at the same price point with 1/2 exposure stops, no AI compatibility and more shutter lag, but it does have that DOF and multiple exposure.

    The users that need everything... pay for it!!
  14. I agree with the criticism of the G lens concept. The rest of the complaining I think is silly (though yes, everyone has a right to an opinion). Nikon is in a position of having to survive in a competitive industry against another company that is far larger. And it's only going to get tougher. The techs at the local place where I take my cameras maintain that Nikon's admirable desire to maintain backward compatability via its mount technology has increasingly hamstrung them in terms of competing with Canon. Canon made a clean break with its original mount some years ago, and while this alienated some of its users, the change allowed the company to move forward with its technology rapidly. Nikon may have to do the same thing at some point, and then won't the fur fly in Nikon-land.

    My point is that had Nikon shared the viewpoint of some of its old-time loyalists, i.e., that old-fashioned, manual everything technology was good enough, the company would be out of business by now. As at least one previous poster commented, the people who swear by the old technology should actually be very happy, as the stampede to auto-everything and digital has rendered older equipment incredibly inexpensive. Paradise!
  15. It's never been a better time to be a Nikon user. It seems that all those excellent AI(S) lenses, in all their variety, that were way out of reach in my (slightly) younger days are suddenly available used at very affordable prices. I haven't had as much (photographic) fun in years, just by experimenting with different combinations of primes and zooms and long telephotos in my bag. When I decide I've learned all I can from a lens, or decide it's not what I need, I can sell it on, usually for a similar sum to what I paid. What's to complain about?
  16. Hi Gabriele

    I think you have a point, But.........our views won't change anything.

    In addition to a digital and Af body I also own a F3HP. I was really irritated by the change to "G" and "DX" only lens. So I wrote a email to Nikon, telling them it was not right especially since they were still selling MF bodies. I also asked them, in the email, why they would develop lens that many of their users couldn't use? I told them it didn't sound like a good business practice to me - why would you reduce your potential lens sales, and then sent it. They said they would get back to me, and never did. That was fine, I vented my frustration, told them how I felt, and moved on. Try it, you'll feel better.

    Is it fair? I don't think so. Will it hurt them? It might, it might not. Will any amount of bitching change anything? Nope.
    They made a decision, invested time and money into it, and we either have to adjust to it and live with it, or get someting else. It won't kill me that some some new lens won't work on my F3. If I had just bought a F3 or FM3A, I might still be angry, but it won't change anything.

    I know some guys in the local photography club who were angry about it. They had bought the FM3A, and then sold their stuff and moved to Canon. Doesn't make sense to me. But it is a free country
  17. Nikon is not a charity.
  18. Hi to everyone and thanks...

    the problem affects every brand, if you allow me to call it a problem.
    I really don't care if G lenses and D-Slrs are the standard today and the main future, in fact I even Like them to tell all the story..
    Is the lack of attention that I miss more, intended as a lack of articles on mags or on the web.
    They still produce FM and F series. Well, who cares, to me is just useless if every web page they provide, every article they write on paper (in europe we have the "Nikonpro" magazine..I don't know abroad...)is just on the last trend.

    To me it can't end when you buy a product, there's always been a philosophy behind those products.

    Maybe is just nostalgia, but I prefer calling it a lack of attention for everything that is not a bestseller.

    You can say this is obvious, but Nikon in my opinion was different in that way just a few years ago.

    Things change.

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