Where is the hump?

Two years into the photographs vs pictures thing, it seems like the more I

learn, the more I realize I dont know.

 

I read the books, learn something, try it later, sometimes I do well and

sometimes I flop, but almost always I see even unknowns that I didnt even

imagine before before my trying. Back to the books and the cycle repeats

itself. Its like a Hydra.

 

I know we never stop learning, but somewhere I would imagine there is a hump

where the learning curve starts to flattnen....like a kid that makes that

first wobbly solo ride on a bicycle without dad or training wheels.

 

When do you hit that hump? Do you even recognize it, like that kid on a bike,

or do you wake up one day and say "Ive got it!"

Okay, I know this is the "wrong" answer, but I've been taking pictures or making

photographs or whatever since I was a 13 year old kid, and I've never been conscious of

one being different than the other, except maybe as an expression of "I like this one but

not that one." So I figure it all comes down to taste! There's plenty of widely acclaimed

stuff out there that I really don't "get" at all.

 

Take, for instance, THIS:

http://www.artcritical.com/appel/BAPrinceRecord.htm

 

The record has since been topped, but still, come ON!!! No accounting for tastes, I

suppose.

 

Anyway, the debate kinda reminds me of somehing C.S. Lewis wrote:

 

" The word gentleman originally meant something recognisable; one who had

a coat of arms and some landed property. When you called someone "a

gentleman" you were not paying him a compliment, but merely stating a fact.

If you said he was not "a gentleman" you were not insulting him, but giving

information. There was no contradiction in saying that John was a liar and a

gentleman; any more than there now is in saying that James is a fool and an

M.A. But then there came people who said-so rightly, charitably,

spiritually, sensitively, so anything but usefully-"Ah, but surely the

important thing about a gentleman is not the coat of arms and the land, but

the behaviour? Surely he is the true gentleman who behaves as a gentleman

should? Surely in that sense Edward is far more truly a gentleman than

John?"

They meant well. To be honourable and courteous and brave is of course

a far better thing than to have a coat of arms. But it is not the same

thing. Worse still, it is not a thing everyone will agree about. To call a

man "a gentleman" in this new, refined sense, becomes, in fact, not a way of

giving information about him, but a way of praising him: to deny that he is

"a gentleman" becomes simply a way of insulting him. When a word ceases to

be a term of description and becomes merely a term of praise, it no longer

tells you facts about the object: it only tells you about the speaker's

attitude to that object. (A "nice" meal only means a meal the speaker

likes.)

A gentleman, once it has been spiritualised and refined out of its old

coarse, objective sense, means hardly more than a man whom the speaker

likes. As a result, gentleman is now a useless word. We had lots of terms of

approval already, so it was not needed for that use; on the other hand if

anyone (say, in a historical work) wants to use it in its old sense, he

cannot do so without explanations. It has been spoiled for that purpose."

 

Know what I mean?

 

Peter

"When do you hit that hump?"

 

Funny, I was lamenting the same thing to my wife this morning.

 

Me? Picked up my first camera in 62. Got my degree in pro-photography in 78.

 

Today's lament, it seems to not stop as I'd like to be able to enjoy instead of being on what seems to be a perpetual merry-go-round.

 

The problem, the better I get, the more demanding I get of technicals and the more I master technicals the more I demand of myself.

 

Sorry, no help here. :)

 

""Ive got it!""

 

And then you find out how little you've got and the game starts a-new.

I got a serious interest in photography during my last year of high school, back in 1961. I had a couple of friends with darkrooms, and within a year had my own. In the past few weeks the lady I'm about to marry and I have been going through boxes of my photos. Some of the prints date back as far as 1962. What surprised me was that she picked out about half a dozen of my prints from my early years to include in the display in the livingroom and hallway. Two were shot and printed in 1962 and the others in '65, '66, '67 and '68.

 

I don't remember ever saying "I've got it!" but looking at those photographs today they're as good as anything I've shot since. What I have noticed is that over the years my style might have changed a bit, but the only jarring change was in 1967 when I got a 19mm lens for my Leicas. I loved the ultra-wide effect and still do. Now I shoot a lot with a 15mm Heliar. Before I got the 19 my widest lens was 35mm, and it still gets a lot of use.

 

The other "I got it!" that really had an impact on my success as a photographer was when I stopped dressing like a creative type, a hippy, and went out and bought a couple of quality wool suits, silk rep stripe ties, button down collar cotton dress shirts, leather cap toe dress shoes, and when I went out on news shoots I'd often pick up political and corporate clients, as much because I "fit in" at a corporate board meeting or political cocktail party for major contributors as for my photography. Gotta pay the bills somehow, right?

Al, your comment about dressing to fit in with the people you want to photograph makes

tons of sense. Great advice!

Hi Paul, To me, that's one of the cool things about photography - it's the journey, not the destination. I always find there are a lot of parallels to music and I doubt there are too many musicians who wake up one day and say, in effect, "Well I've learned it all. No need to practice anymore now!" BTW, while it may seem like a long time, 2 years isn't, really. You can't get much of a degree in two years or become much of a master of anything - with the very rare exception now and then. So don't be too hard on yourself - keep buying those books and taking pictures and have fun because learning is good! Happy New Year!

22 years. Lots of "AHA!" moments, but never a time that I felt I had arrived.

 

Jim

I don't think I have gotten over the hump because the damn thing keeps moving about. Ever tried to ride a camel? I did have one pretty close call when I got a phone call from someone (read complete stranger) who had seen some shots of mine and asked me to work on a project of theirs. "Wow, they like me, they really like me". (sorry for the butcher job Sally) I was floating around the house when my wife pinched me in an attempt to reduce the swelling in my head.

"Lots of "AHA!" moments, but never a time that I felt I had arrived."

 

I have to say that I too have had a lot a "AHA!" moments and if you'll forgive my arrogance, I've even had, if but for a fleeting moment or two, felt that I had "arrived;" personal satisfaction with an image or a group of images from a particular outing. But then again, one quickly comes to realize what's being experienced is only a small, temporary resting step, on ledge, on a cliff, as you climb what ever perpetual cliff it is that we all, for what ever reason, have decided to "voluntarily" climb.

 

God knows why we do it but we don't. We all know that we have a rhyme to our song that we must play but I'll be damed if I can tell you the why....... other then to say that in real terms, I'm always holding out for that next "AHA!," moment in time where if but for a short fleeting moment of banality, I can proudly feel like..... "I've got it!" :)

 

HAP-PY NEW YEARS! Yaaaaaaaa! :)

For what it's worth.. I find the learning curve get's steeper each time I feel I move forward. The "AHA" comes more as a "CLUNK" as a piece fits. Then CLUNK again as the face I capture changes to another mood and the piece doesn't fit the situation. Chasing fine focus only to discover images too sharp. Looking for colour and end up finding it dominates rather than compliments. Capturing moments only few can relate to.

 

"AHA!" is when I remember to take of the lens cap.

 

Have a Jolly 2007!

I've tried to study many genres. It seems the more one understands a genre the more the focus is set to the details and specialities of that particular genre. I am not really saying that the learning curve gets steeper but the target is set progressively higher, that is, ambition tends to grow like hunger while eating.<p>

Still, I have met somekind of a hump a few times, or should I say that my hunger has been satisfied reasonably. I've seen there is more to learn but perhaps I've felt it's not worth the trouble since I've exceeded my original target. Sometimes I haven't met the target but I understand the reasons and it seems to be adequate. I like to do things in a project way, that is, there is a start and there is a finish. On a larger scale I'd say my emphasis has been in the last couple of years in doing the planning better and better, in other words, shooting more effectively. I've also documented all my projects quite methodically. ...I still can't do a proper hikey.<p>(Jeez, how many "I" and "me" there was. Sorry.)

I don't know if this may answer your question, but in my case I found that event the day after I finished my formal studies in photography.

 

It was with a fellow student that was covering a wedding and wanted me to come along for support, being the older student that had graduated that year, I felt that I had an advantage when it come to business and people management skills.

 

Everything she did in regards to setting the shots up to the camera settings were like second nature to me by that stage and my friend found that after taking my advise 'that she had all the knowledge' from the past 4 years of study in her mind, that all she needed to do was let it flow...as she felt she may not have remembered the things that we had instilled in us.

 

I still use my 4 volumes of notes as reference apart from my libary of photographic books which number around the 2 hundred as I believe that one does not stop learning...in even the ultimate moment of our destinties...if anything the one thing that was not taught nor can it be..in a direct way....was creativity...that is something that life long passage in this profession teaches during the course of time...granted...you have to be open to it as well.

 

Artur

Hump? I thought photograpghy was a long steady incline.

My "curve" seems to be an undulating wave. I reached a point in 2005 (after almost 40 years of really serious photography including darkroom) where I felt I was able to capture a larger number of "Aha!" images than ever before. P/N raters disagree; they have me at a rather unexciting, just under 5 rating average. Surprising to me, some of my recent photos self-rated as mediocre have been requested for exhibit by curators and publication in a magazine I highly respect. Now I wonder what they're seeing that I've missed.

<I>it seems like the more I learn, the more I realize I dont know.</I><P>

 

That's a healthy attitude, and what makes life interesting. Will always be true.

Racing toward the hump, its just on the other side of the horizon; just a little faster and I will be there.<div></div>

<i> I felt I was able to capture a larger number of "Aha!" images than ever before. P/N raters

disagree;</i><p>

P/N raters are not your market. P/N raters are as inclined to rate against someone who

intimidates them as they are to overrate someone who doesn't. <p>

To answer in this context: The hump is the top of the bell curve.

A learning curve is not a bell curve, sorry. Back to school for statistics.

I was speaking of the context of my message, John.

After 60 years of messing around with photography, I've concluded that the hump can stay wherever it is because I'm not sure I'd be happy passing over it. As Kahlil Gibran said, "Desire is half of life, indifference is half of death." So long as I have a way to go, I'll still care enough to do the best job I can, but if I ever get to feeling fully satisfied with the last picture, I'll probably not do as well with the next.

 

Sure, there are times when the learning curve flattens a bit, but when it stops rising, so do we.

With a grain of salt here :) I went and read Paul's biography and now understand the real issue. Paul has been EATING parts of his cameras, and thusly has been internalizing photography. I recommend that he not continue ingesting photographic equipment, either in reality or as some kind of concept. It makes the photography bit too difficult.

Dick, we also have this quote, "Who ain't busy living is busy dying." (Bob Dylan)

Thanks, Pico -- that brings it right up to date! Either one works for me.

<I>"Lots of "AHA!" moments</i><P>

 

I mostly have "Oh $#it!" moments - but learn from those as well.<P>

 

Not long ago I took a long drive up in the mountains to take pictures only to arrive and discover I'd left my camera's battery hooked to its charger, at home. And no, being the "Ansel" that I am, I didn't even have a point & shoot for a spare.<P>

 

Every once in a while something goes right though. There has to be an instrinsic reward or practically none of us would do it, I suspect.<P>

 

I guess it's a lot like fishing. I'd much rather be catching fish than the act of doing it, even though that can be a relaxing thing in and of itself, I suppose.<P>

 

Unless you forget your fishing pole, of course.

I'm about fifteen years in as a serious photographer, and the learning curve comes and

goes in waves. I'd be a little worried if it completely flattened out, quite frankly, as that

would indicate stagnancy in my mind. I'm a far better photographer than I was when I was

in school, and I've learned a lot more about the art in the last two years than I did the

entire time I was in school. (Not knocking art school, I was just too young for it at the

time.)

 

A lot of endeavors are like this. I remember when I first started in martial arts. A few

months in, and I felt invincible. Then the more I learned, the more I didn't know. I

became more confident in my abilities, of course, but my perspective changed dramatically

over time. The "hump" really becomes most pronounced in retrospect, when you look

back and see where you once were.