When is a digital M back door coming?

I've seen a lot of digital backs come out for medium format cameras and I've even seen the Leica R version. When

do people think a Leica M digital back will come out? I'm sure this would be great way to revive interest in

Leica M3 to MPs.Basically, all of the M back doors are the same. Why can't someone put in a light sensor on the

film plane, SD card into the back, and stick in a battery into the film chamber (with a small LCD too)? I have

so many Leica M cameras that I'd like to leave to my kids. Having a digital options would make the Leica M camera

live beyond film. I hope someone at Leica see this thread. Thanks

Never.

 

Ever.

 

Impossible/impractical at this time. And by the time it is possible, nobody will care.

"E Film" tried and failed

I hope not. It would be technically comprised, very expensive, even if possible. Film cameras are best at what they do

and I am sure they will be around for quite a while (consider the film releases by Fuji and kodak within the past year).

 

The Leica M8 had to face M system comprises, one of which was the short back focus design of existing and past M

lenses (in view of the fact one doe not have to make provision for a swivelling mirror) and the fact that pixels like to

receive image forming information straight-on. They've done a fine job with a new M digital body, despite these

constraints.

 

The rapid change in sensor technology and software makes dedicated camera bodies the best way to go. If a digital

sensor upgrade made sense, you would first see them appear in DSLRs.

it is a lot more complicated than it looks like at first glance otherwise they would have done it already.

"I have so many Leica M cameras that I'd like to leave to my kids. "

 

Your kids (if they're like most kids) doubtless use camera phones and have absolutely zero interest in looking through an

actual viewfinder, or figuring out how to meter, or manually focus. Few do these days. If you buy such a back, it will cost

a fortune. If you leave the cameras to the kids, they will probably not want to spend a fortune on a Leica digital back

(just look at how much a Leica grip, motor or even hood costs and it's obvious the digital back will be highway robbery as

well), and will go for a tiny digicam that surpasses it for $100.

 

And the most important argument against: why defile a great old camera? It's like getting a 60's Porsche and putting in a

Camaro engine....just plain tacky.

Isn't going to happen. I would have bought it in an eyeblink if the technology had worked. Nobody is interested in doing this because there is no financial return involved. My daughter and grandkids couldn't give a hoot about my Leica (or other 35mm or MF film gear).

I it could be done, the camera would grow in size and people would complain.

 

your answer, never

Wait for Koln Photokina. Maybe Leica will show us some new developments.

If a Digi-Back for M bodies was a simple thing ( swapping doors!)wouldn't the M-8 look and feel a lot more like

an M-4? I mean, havn't they done all that...e-detector, batteries,LCD screen...yet its still pretty thick. If

they could have made the M-8 mor epetite I'm sure that they would have. And if they did make an effective M body

conversion that cost less than an M-8...who would pay more for an M-8? The same arguments apply to any other

premium SLR system.

 

Drew Bedo

With all the really rich fanatic Leica Collectors and users you would think a person like Cosina's Mr. K. but not him, would finance a near FF say 1.2 crop 5:4 direct to 8x10" digital M. Leicas first attempt is IMHO overpriced for its IQ with need for corrective glasses and coded lenses nobody else seems to require.

 

Maybe the Leica Society could subscribe patrons to develope a cost effective Taiwan version at a price that will be in line with what the majority of M owners will be eager to pay.

"....coded lenses nobody else seems to require" - Uhhh what would all those little pins and gold contacts be on the backs of every Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Sigma (ad infinitum) lens be - that's right, CODING!!

 

Manual focus Nikkors have to be HAND-CODED into the digital cameras (that take them) via the menus.

 

As to the original question - about the same time that there are digital backdoors for: Nikon Fs, Canon F-1s, Pentax Spotmatics, Minolta SR-T 101s, Rolleiflex C/D/Es (and my Yashica D)...also about the time a jet engine conversion for Piper Cubs shows up, and a conversion that allows us to print photographs with a 1954 Underwood typewriter.

> Manual focus Nikkors have to be HAND-CODED into the digital cameras (that take them) via the menus.

 

They do? My Nikon D1, D1x, and full-frame Nikon E3 to not require any coding when using AI series manual-focus lenses. I was not aware that the newer D2 and D3 "require" it, either. Just mount and shoot.

 

And the Digital Back for my Nikon N8008s does not require it either.

I'm sure we'll have the technology to do it at some point... The question is in 5, 10, 20 years, or whenever we can do it, will

any body care enough to build it and sell it. If it could be done in a film cassette factor, it would have more appeal than a

removable back/bottom for a specific system. You could probably do it now if you were ok with the imaging system found

in a cell phone... not exactly full frame though.

 

However, if/when it could be done at acceptable quality, think of the quality and design of a purpose-built digital camera

using the same technology. I think that would be much superior. So in time, Leica or someone else will be able to build an

M-mount digital that actually meets our wants unconditionally. Probably best to leave the film cameras as film cameras.

Not surprising I think that all those that knock Leica for its M8 are those that, for the most part, are "armchair quarterbacks". I don't

see too many Hasselblad "groovies" complaining about the less than full frame (6x6) Hasselblad digital cameras.

 

I salute Leica for their technological know-how and their great products, even if I cannot afford to buy many of them. They have been

dedicated to and persevered with the rangefinder approach during many decades when Canon, Zeiss, Nikon and others gave the RF mode

up for fatter markets, and the alternative RF products (Minolta CLE, modern Contax RF, Mamiya 6 and 7, BronicaRF, Voightlander-Cosina

RF cameras and lenses, Zeiss-Ikon products) had not yet arrived on the scene.

 

The manufacturing approach of Leica and their precision metal cameras (just the viewing, framing and RF mechanism alone has more than

100 separate parts) and highest quality lenses (e.g.,dissimilar metal surfaces of the focus helicoids, that minimize wear without excessive

and volatile greases) cannot compete price-wise with the more mass-produced products of the competition (although some of the

competition's products are more carefully fashioned and destined for professionals and advanced amateurs, and are also equally pricey).

<P>This concept of modular digital backs for 35mm film cameras is a horse that has been flogged so much and so often that it's not just dead, it's disintegrating. The idea is theoretically sound, but the devil is in the details. Leica made it work, briefly, with the DMR, and I would guess that they looked at the M body when they were doing that, but the fact that nothing was forthcoming is indicative that it couldn't be done or wasn't worth doing.</P><P>Cameras that were modular in the first place, like Hassies etc., are amenable to this approach, but you'll notice it's not cheap.</P>

Brian Sweeney: I was just going by this comment in a luminous-landscape review - not true?:

 

"As a consequence a modern camera like the Nikon D3 can not display the actual aperture in use [with manual focus lenses]

without user intervention. Instead it displays the numbers 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 and so on for the full stop apertures beginning with f/3.5.

Somewhat confusing to say the least, though the metering does work properly. Nikon is their recent cameras does allow for the

programing of non-chipped lenses, so pull out your user manual and see how easy it is to do this. This will allow for full

recognition of the lens's maximum aperture and will record aperture data in the EXIF file as well."

 

For that matter, one can just "mount and shoot" uncoded lenses on the M8 as well - the coding just allows the camera to make

some corrections for IR filtering if one is using IR filters AND wide angles. I shot with all uncoded lenses for 6 months with the M8

until the filters became available.

Okay- in the case of the Nikon, the entered information of the manual focus lens is just to enter data fields in the EXIF, not to change the image processing algorithm used to store the image. In the case of the M8, the lens coding actually effects the way the camera processes the image. It has to do with color-fringing and the like. The optics are much closer to the CCD, and knowing the type of lens mounted on it helps make decisions.

 

For the Nikon- unless you care about the EXIF, or have to see the F-Stop information displayed, it's not worth bothering with. I never have! My Nikon SP does not display shutter-speed or F-stop in the viewfinder.

 

On the subject of a Data Back- it would be big and expensive, and I doubt anyone will produce one commercially. I'll have to post a picture of the N8008s with its digital back. It is quite big, as it houses a hard-disk.

There was one for the Leica R series so it's certainly possible, but it would require a *new* camera that had electronic triggers for the digital sensor etc to link to the shutter button. And I don't think "digital film" is an impossibility in the future, just not right at the moment. I don't see any reason why a digital full-frame back would be very large, if you are thinking about the size of the backs for the Leica R... well... that's been a few years ago now. ;)

There's already an electronic trigger--it's called a flash synch outlet. I believe several of the large format add-on digital backs for film-based cameras use this strategy.

 

I don't think it would be a particularly difficult job to make one. The only downside I see is that if you look at the equivalent devices for medium format (snap-on digital backs for non-digital cameras), they're very large. On a Leica RF how are you going to get your eye anywhere near the finder with a big box hanging on the back of the camera?

Okay, right now such a back is out of the question. In the future it might not be. Two things you can expect:

miniaturization and cost reduction. You saw what happened with computers. The modern personal computer was

created essentially by independent inventors. And as personal computers became more widely used they became

cheaper and more sophisticated. Except the same with digital photography. If a digital back is ever invented it will be

by an independent maker and it will be sold at a fairly reasonable prince. It will probably not be as reliable as its

contemporary digital cameras. Not for professionals but for hobbyists.

 

Meanwhile, what's wrong with film? I use both, scanning my film into my desktop darkroom. In spite of all dire

warnings, film will endure for a long time. There are just too many film cameras around. Film, particularly black and

white, is proven to be archival. The jury is still out with regards to digital.

Maybe Britney could be the spokes person for a digital module/back for iZone; this would have a make better digital image than the Webster.

"Maybe Britney could be the spokes person for a digital module/back for iZone; this would have a make better digital

image than the Webster."

 

---How's that again, Kelly? That one went over my head.