What's your opinion on editing photos?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by bretaincrab, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. I understand your point. I said my biases formed my opinion and went on to describe why it was. Who has opinions that aren't biased by one thing or another? I just admitted it. I was hoping to stir debate from others, some who might feel as I do.

    Most photographers won't admit to resentfulness or envy which is just silly. If we didn;t care about our work compared to others, who;s better or worse, more capable or not, we wouldn't be human. Most people argue against too much post editing claiming it's not natural when really they're loathed to admit like I did that envy might be part of it. So I did. I was hoping to stir debate but I suppose people want to duck the issue.
  2. We’ve chatted about your opinions for days. I’ve asked you questions about them which you’ve answered. I think your opinions are ill-informed and shallow. That’s not dismissing them out of hand. It’s assessing them based on a lot of back and forth.
  3. Remember that Ansell Adams and his ilk did it for MONEY and PRESTIGE , nothing has changed in this world , these same motivations drive MOST photographers today.
    It is a rare photographer indeed who only wants to capture images that only please him or her.
    But if this is your thing , who am I to judge you.
    But do not expect to impress me overly much with your "post-processing wizadry" , although admittedly some "post-processing" is pretty darned impressive indeed.
    So as always , it takes all kinds to make a world.
    IPSfoto likes this.
  4. You can strive to, and succeed, make perfect bricks. But a pile of perfect bricks is not a perfect building. To get that too, you must go beyond creating perfect bricks.
    Straight out of the camera images are bricks. How many of you have the in camera processing set to as neutral as possible? And how many who use film are content with looking at negatives, or too contrasty slides? The choice of film, the inevitability of raw-processing, whether left to the camera (though after setting preferences in a menu or two) or in post, it's all the same thing.
    Adams has been mentioned several times. What is important to understand is that his often quoted saying about scores and performance is not something he invented, but an accurate description of what photography is. There is nothing natural to it. There is no true to nature photo. The believe that if only you stop at whatever comes out of the camera, with nothing done to that (an impossibility using film), shows a lack of understanding of photography, what is is, how it works, and what it can and cannot do or be. Every single step, every single phase in the making of a photograph (things like how we let light through a lens, everything) is processing. Latching on to the 'post' bit, declaring that unwanted or forbidden, allowing only that which happens until the film or memory card is taken from the camera, really is showing an advanced degree of ignorance re what photography is.
  5. I understand your point of view Alan.

    And in a way you are correct, It is important to get the exposure correct, it gives more flexibility when working in PS, and more importantly the film darkroom which is a lot less flexible.
    Although, I'm a firm believer that editing, which for me, is as much part of the photographic process, as taking the -photo....I understand that process is not for everyone.

    No need for the rudeness of the crowd "the we", or, maybe the" royal we" because you have a different point of view..
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  6. You certainly have a right to disagree and give a counterargument. But you dismissed my right to even have an opinion. Calling me ill inform and shallow are personal attacks. That's going too far.
    IPSfoto likes this.
  7. Cry me a river.

    This is not about your right to have an opinion, because obviously you have that right and I have no power or desire to take that away. What you keep running up against is thinking that I have to accept the rationale for your opinions as valid or having foundation, which I do not.

    I know plenty of folks who prefer not to post process whose opinion I accept and don’t think to argue with. And I admire a lot of their work. But they don’t throw out stuff about competition, ubiquitous cloning, doing what painters are supposed to do, and the like to rationalize their opinions. They just do what they want without needing to judge what others who do things differently do.

    Your judgments here about post processing and those who practice it (giving themselves an edge against you in the world of photography) have been numerous and now you’re overwhelmed because you’ve been called on them.
    movingfinger likes this.
  8. "Calling me ill inform and shallow are personal attacks. That's going too far" Allan

    "Cry me a river" Sam. Kind response.

    "Your judgments here about post processing and those who practice it (giving themselves an edge against you in the world of photography) have been numerous and now you’re overwhelmed because you’ve been called on them" Sam..

    Numerous..so what. Look into History and what story it tells. I disagree with Alan's opinions, but I respect his right to express them without insults.

    Not so kind to Alan, who has been over the years a supportive ,PN poster.
    IPSfoto likes this.
  9. To be fair, though, Alan suggested the backing of a large group of 'old timers', though merely expressing his own opinion. Bad show.
  10. . "Bad show" Q.G

    ;)) Bad show old chap .Defiantly not jolly hockey sticks.

    My advice is to read a lot of PG Woodhouse, and have cup of tea, with those proper digestive biscuits .A cucumber, if you must old bean, cut into triangles, if you still have the munchies.

    Toodle Pip old chap must be off now.

    PS, you have to educate those Harrow barrow boys in everything. No wonder they failed their exams to get into Eton.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  11. "old chap", "PG Woodhouse", "digestive biscuits", "old bean", "Toodle Pip old chap", "Harrow barrow boys", and "Eton"

    Someone need to translate all this into "American" since I got fatigued trying to use "google".

    Don't really have a dog in this race, but have been monitoring this thread for sh*ts and giggles, have had a few glasses of wine and certainly didn't understand the nuances of Allan's posting.;)
  12. I think I've watched every episode of Jeeves and Wooster, and my roommate had the whole set of PG Wodehouse's Jeeves series books, brilliant stuff. Even though I'm an American I've had a few Digestives in my time with some Barry's Tea. :)

    I think Alan's suggestion is great.
  13. Alan or Allen?
  14. Jeez, people, this thread has been going on for almost 2 years and has had 132 responses. For how much longer? Who on earth is going to browse 132 posts to 'catch up'?

    How about someone starting a new thread on this topic so that we can restart afresh?
    IPSfoto likes this.
  15. Mike, you strike me as a thoughtful, intelligent guy. If you think a new thread is in order, why not start one yourself on this or any other topic you deem worthwhile? I’ve started quite a few over the years and would love some good ideas from new blood. Honestly.
    mikemorrell likes this.
  16. I'm sorry I stirred up a hornet's nest. It's not where I wanted it to go. So let me reset everything if I can. If anything I said upset or insulted any of you, I apologize, especially to Sam. Disregard all my posts on the subject and let's move on if you wish. Life is too short to get into arguments. We all have a common interest in photography and I should maintain a level of courtesy and friendship to all. So I intend to do so going forward. This is the New Year, so may I wish everyone a happy, healthy, and successful one. Best regards, Alan.
    IPSfoto likes this.
  17. Alan, thanks. But really no apology necessarily.

    Philosophy is all about argument and, while others find such arguments as we’ve been having objectionable, I’m a proponent of them. There have been philosophers who’ve actually come to blows over their disagreements—most famously Wittgenstein legendarily brandishing a red hot fireplace poker in Karl Popper’s face while, ironically enough, arguing against moral rules. I would discourage physical violence, which is why Internet arguing is a bit safer. :)

    As to getting personal, I know we’re not supposed to, but the Philosophy forum has a long history of passion and personal jabs. I’ve had personal back and forths with some of my favorite PN characters here, people I’ve learned from if sometimes unwillingly, from Phylo to JK to Lannie and others. I’ve attended lectures at UC Berkeley by the esteemed John Searle, who had very personal disagreements on the nature of truth with Michel Foucault and others. Proponents of free will have loudly and sternly argued with determinists. Cartier-Bresson got pretty personal with Ansel Adams and Edward Weston for “photographing rocks” while “the world crumble[d].” All seemed to me simply to exhibit passion for their views in the moment that didn’t seem to undermine themselves or the person targeted. Why argue so strenuously unless you care?

    I’ve said in this thread that I very much respect the way you work and the joy you seem to get from what you produce. My quarrel is not with you as a human being or with whatever way you choose to work. It is, strenuously, with some of your reasoning here and many of your judgments.

    I’m not much interested in modulating the voice or passion with which I argue. But I do want to let you know that I wouldn’t engage in such arguments if I didn’t think the underlying ideas were important and if I didn’t think you were a valuable enough alternative voice to argue with. There are folks here I’ve stopped arguing with, and that should be taken as much more of a sign of my disrespect than anything personal I might say directly to you in the heat of the moment.
  18. "f anything I said upset or insulted any of you, I apologize, especially to Sam ."Alan"

    You have not said a single word to insult anyone. Only you have been insulted; but your strength of character, apologies, and a kindness of the offer of peace.
    Back hand apologies from Sam, do not really work for me. They just talk of someone up their own rear.

    "There are folks here I’ve stopped arguing with, and that should be taken as much more of a sign of my disrespect " Sam.

    Personally, I do not disrespect anyone. Again, more rear end viewing.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
    IPSfoto likes this.
  19. Sorry to say, entertaining for some.

    But really, a group of bully boys, putting someone down.
  20. Not sure why I get involved.

    Only really here to share photos. Maybe this photo speaks for me.

    luis triguez likes this.

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