What to get..M6 or MP?

<p>Hello all. I'm looking to take the plunge and get my first Leica. I've used a Bessa R since they first came out, and although I plan to hold onto it as a backup camera, I want something that's a bit more durable (I just can't see the plastic body parts on my Bessa lasting another 40 years). Thus my question: which model (MP or M6) do you think will hold up better to years of use/abuse? I'm looking at the black model of both.</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

Joe Martin</p>

<p>The M6 is good, but the MP was designed as no-compromise best-of-class.</p>

<p >The MP is better built than the M6, and an M6 will be 10-20 years old already. MPs have a smoother feel to them, but whether they’d last any longer, I’m not sure you’d have to worry about either, both should last a long time if looked after and CLA’d regularly. You could buy two M6s for the price of an MP. The MP paint finish is not as durable as chrome, but this is cosmetic only.</p>

<p>An MP is slightly better built than the M6, but the Leica modest cost cutting, after the abortive M5 production and that then included the M4-2, M4-P, and M6, was not of a nature to significantly reduce the durability of an already magnificently built camera. Many consider that these cameras are the equal of the lamented M2 and M3 cameras, notwitstanding some of the opinions you see (from those who cannot refrain from "gilding the lily").</p>

<p>You can probably locate a mint or mint- M6 for about a third to one half the cost of an MP, and it is a purchase you will not regret. My M6 was a truly excellent camera (I regret selling it some 3 or 4 years ago). Now I only have an M4-P as a film M Leica and this nearly 30 year old camera is as good as it was when produced. It has not yet needed a service and my shutter speed tester shows it to be in top form. The M4-2, M4-P and M6 cameras were apparently designed with tougher parts so when worn you replace these mechanical parts, rather than re-adjust them as with the former Leicas, but then my camera has operated 30 years in moderate use and without any such need.</p>

<p>Whatever you decide, make sure it gets regular shutter exercise (every month or so) if you are obliged to put it away for a period, and keep it out of dusty, smokey (kitchen grills), or salty and sandy seaside atmospheres (if you want to keep it for a very long period). This is good practice anyway for any precision device and is not really overly babying of the equipment.</p>

<p>Strictly from an aesthetic standpoint, I prefer the Leica MP. It has that M3, M2 retro look. Very expensive though.</p>

<p>That's one reason I recently opted for the purchase of an M2 and M4. I'm told that the M4 was the last hand assembled M body. Though internal metering would be nice, I have a very expensive Minolta hand held meter that I haven't used for years. I think it's going to be fun using it again.</p>

<p>Joe, get an M6, you won't regret it. It has 98% of the build quality of the MP for half the price, with a considerably more ergonomic and refined film rewind knob. As for the used M6s being, well, used, this has never been an issue with any Leica M camera. As you may notice, people even recommend the 50 year old M2s and M3s as suitable candidates for purchase. And the M6s are hand assembled, just like the other cameras.</p>

<p>Joe: I echo Arthur Plumpton's comments about the differences between the M6 and MP as regards construction, durability, etc. Yes, there are differences but they are minor.</p>

<p>For me the 'sweet spot' as regards model, cost and age was the M6TTL, an example of which i bought about a year ago. Even the oldest example are just over 10 years old whereas the previous M6 model (sometimes called 'M6 Classic') can be up to 25 years old, yet the price premium for a TTL over a classic is minor. Both are considerably cheaper than a new MP. S/h MPs don't often turn up, at least not where I live. In my case part of the argument was that I wanted to put more of my budget towards lenses and less towards the camera itself. If you've been using a rangefinder camera for a while you probably already have a collection of lenses and your constraints may be different. Don't let advice here put you off buying a new MP if you can afford it!</p>

<p>There's also the issue of VF magnification. M6 classics were mainly available with .72 viewfinders; right at the very end of their production the .85 vf was introduced as an alternative, but there aren't many such cameras around. The M6TTL however was available from the start with both .72 and .85 viewfinders, and both are widely available. In addition, late in its life, the .58 vf was introduced, although to be honest they aren't common and may attract a price premium. As I say above MP cameras aren't easily available s/h anyway, so there's little choice of vf magnification in what does come on the market. New, the standard MP is only available with a .72 viewfinder; to get either .85 or .58 viewfinders you have to buy through the a la carte programme, which is even more expensive.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>"The MP is better built than the M6"</p>

<p>Exactly what evidence do the posters have that say this? Have you been to the factory? Has a Leica engineer said this? Please enlighten us...</p>

<p>maybe the above posters are right, maybe not. but what i will say is that the mp is built with better materials than the m7/6 and is similar in quality to the m4 and nearly as good as the m3. any leica m series camera though is over engineered so your choice decision should not be based on build quality.</p>

<p>The MP is certainly a popular camera. You'll see very few used MP for sale. I am sure it is well-built and if you can afford one by all means get it. I have four M6s that have have been good to me over the years and I cannot complain. Only the oldest had a shutter problem years ago which was fixed by Cameraquest. The MP has a superior finder, which you can have installed into your M6. Cost-wise, the M6 is a bargin.</p>

<p>I'm on the fence about this...The MP that I'd used for just over a year - a Hammertone which I ended up selling, had a rough shutter release, circutry that cut out in merely cool (30-40f) temperatures - no matter what battery, evidence of further cost cutting over the M6/ttl (cheaper rear viewfinder attacment which introduced dust, pressure plate affixed by screws from the film-side, cheaper iso dial). Then again, perhaps this cost cutting was balanced by a better viewfinder (although the patch on mind wasn't as sharp when viewed other than absolutely straight on - probably due to the extra optics), and a very slightly smoother feel, likely a result of what Leica has touted as a refined approach to gear design and production - although this could amount, at least partially, to slightly relaxed gear tolerances, or a tooth design which would permit relaxed tolerances while remaining effective - which is actually probably a good idea in the long run.<br>

Then again, some of this is merely conjecture - although I have owned and sold over 30 M cameras in as many years (with a net loss of zero, so they've all been free!) - plus I design and build cameras, so maybe my intition has some shred of validity. But such forum conjecture can be extremely frustrating from the perspective of a manufacturer trying to market its goods...so my apologies where they are due.<br>

I also have found that as with any finely produced instrument, differences can and do exist between individual examples of a given model. Right now I happen to own a black paint TTL which is as smooth and well behaved as any M I've ever owned - which includes the above-mentioned MP. Yes, the meter does cut out in cold temps - but more like 15f. Having said this, I did own an M6 with a meter good to zero f. Not sure what to think about this - frustrating as I like to photograph in cold temps. Then again, I've got my trusty Weston Master IV, and in a pinch there's good old sunny 16!</p>

<p>why does my entry say "edit?" is this a new feature?</p>

<p>I don't know the answer to this... but does the M6 meter circuit have fewer integrated components than the MP? I know some older SLRs are easier to repair than newer because they use more small discrete components rather than fewer custom integrated ones. </p>

<p>Neither of these threads will help.</p>

<p>http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/35783-i-love-my-m6.html</p>

<p>http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/8842-i-love-my-mp.html</p>

<p>But the MP seems to get the most love votes.</p>

<p>...just to be contraversial....</p>

<p>I get the impression the majority (not all) of MP owners are fondlers or light users, whereas I get the impression the majority (not all) of M6 owners are users, often heavy users....</p>

<blockquote>

<p>why does my entry say "edit?" is this a new feature?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes. For 10 minutes after a reply is posted, its author can make changes/corrections to it. After that, the word "edit" disappears and no further changes are possible (except by the moderators, in "extreme circumstances").</p>

<p>Why buy a new MP when you can get several used M3s or M4s for the same price?</p>

<p>If you have to ask how much, get an M6; if you don't look at price tags when you shop, get an MP.</p>

<p><em>...just to be contraversial....</em><br>

<em>I get the impression the majority (not all) of MP owners are fondlers or light users, whereas I get the impression the majority (not all) of M6 owners are users, often heavy users....</em><br>

<em></em><br>

I carry my MP with me everywhere I go, and the three people I know personally who own MPs are all heavy users. I don't think they spend much time on the internet though.</p>

<p>I love a good contraversy!<br />But the m6 ttl is horrible: shutter speed dial goes the wrong way, camera is too tall, horrible red logo. Get the p.<br />If you can't afford it and must have a meter, go for the classic m6 (and live with the logo. You can always cover it up!)</p>

<p>I think it has more to do with funds. Leicas, if cared for last 50+ years, therefore durability is not the issue. If you have the funds buy the MP. On the other hand you could by 2 M6's; one for black and white and one for color. On the other hand if you are planning to abuse the camera stay with the Bessa.</p>

<p>Thanks all for your comments. The deciding issue for me right now is the zinc top plate on the M6 versus the brass on the MP. Is there really any reason to be concerned with this? Is the brass significantly more durable than zinc? I know that the brass plates can be re-painted/enamled if I choose (though, I have no problem with some honest wear and tear), but can I do the same with the M6 body? I realize there is a big difference in price, but I'm not really worried about that- if the MP is going to outlast the M6 then it's well worth it to me.</p>

<p>This will require a second opinion, or verification, but I did read somewhere that the particular brass alloy chosen is more likely to dent than the zinc casting, although apparently some have had problems with the latter as well (the plating on the zinc). But these are probably rare occurences and nitpicks, mentioned only because you brought up the question of the two materials.</p>

<p>The age factor, like that for someone buying an M4 or M3 or M2, can be a problem (unless you buy a later model M6 TTL rather than the so-called older 'classic" model).</p>

<p>Another option is to buy a used but mint condition MP, which will be younger than an M6 and not too far off from it in price. The present price of the MP, two or three hundred dollars higher than that of the M8 with Leica rebate, is a bit hard to take, especially as it hasn't required all the fairly recent considerable R and D expenses of the digital Leica. </p>

<p>If it were my money I wouldn't buy either. I'd buy an M7. Now that looks like a great camera.</p>

<p>My M6 is from 1995. A fair bit of use, never in a case or half case. Still mint. My M2 has acquired no marks from me in 30 years. I would not worry about the vulnerability of the Zinc top cover with the M6. Nice to have an MP, but not for that money. They will eventually come up second hand, maybe later this year. Love Geoff R's 20th Feb 5:52 comment.</p>