What? Somebody "fixed it" when it ain't broke?

Love the old simple interface that was easy to understand. Why introduce these ubiquitous cutesy icons and all those confusing and redundant stuff? Who really need them?

I could not agree more. This appears to be different for no more reason than to be different, and it's certainly not an improvement, IMO.

Love the old simple interface that was easy to understand. Why introduce these ubiquitous cutesy icons and all those confusing and redundant stuff? Who really need them?

I respectfully disagree, but thank you for your feedback.

Not only did they 'fix' something that wasn't broken the 'fix' itself doesn't work.

1. Too much wasted space

2. Cannot 'stay logged in'

3. Login gets lost when switching between pages

4. Icons much larger than needed (icons aren't needed at all IMO)

5. Navigation is less than intuitive

All the things that were wrong with the first iteration of P.N 2.0 are still there in one form or another. It's obvious to me that site management is catering to folks who who primarily use hand held touch screen devices which does not include me.

Given the scope of the change one would think that each and every page would have a "Help, How Do I Do Something" link to help folks rather than having to wait for some yet to be developed FAQ page which may or may not be any real help.

In all likelihood when I leave the site this time I'll not bother logging in again.

Edit: Page breaks and new paragraphs don't work either. :mad:

Edit 2: Page breaks and new paragraphs do work after you edit the original post. o_O:confused::(

Edit 3: Page breaks broken when leaving the site and returning. :rolleyes:

Edit 4: Logon preserved when I left the site and came back, but was then lost when I switched pages. So sad. :(

Not only did they 'fix' something that wasn't broken the 'fix' itself doesn't work.

 

1. Too much wasted space

2. Cannot 'stay logged in'

3. Login gets lost when switching between pages

4. Icons much larger than needed (icons aren't needed at all IMO)

5. Navigation is less than intuitive

 

All the things that were wrong with the first iteration of P.N 2.0 are still there in one form or another. It's obvious to me that site management is catering to folks who who primarily use hand held touch screen devices which does not include me.

 

Given the scope of the change one would think that each and every page would have a "Help, How Do I Do Something" link to help folks rather than having to wait for some yet to be developed FAQ page which may or may not be any real help.

 

In all likelihood when I leave the site this time I'll not bother logging in again.

 

 

Edit: Page breaks and new paragraphs don't work either. :mad:

 

Edit 2: Page breaks and new paragraphs do work after you edit the original post. o_O:confused::(

There is an upcoming release that addresses spacing issues you speak of however this forum software is not proprietary to photo.net - it was build by the best in the business from a company solely dedicated to forum software and they have been at it for more than a decade. I believe what you are experiencing is that feeling when you buy a new car and don't know where the headlights are or how to turn on the wipers, but once you get familiar with it you enjoy it. But thank you for the feedback, it shows you care which is important.

Love the old simple interface that was easy to understand.

You're joking, right? Simple? The old Pn was the worst for people to understand and prevented new users. And it was even worse on mobile.

There is an upcoming release that addresses spacing issues you speak of however this forum software is not proprietary to photo.net - it was build by the best in the business from a company solely dedicated to forum software and they have been at it for more than a decade. I believe what you are experiencing is that feeling when you buy a new car and don't know where the headlights are or how to turn on the wipers, but once you get familiar with it you enjoy it. But thank you for the feedback, it shows you care which is important.

Actually, I'm familiar with the forum software as it's used on a couple of other sites where I'm active and where it works 'properly'.

As to 'not knowing where the headlights are' I'd like to point out that a new car also comes with an owner's manual - something missing here.

Ciao

You're joking, right? Simple? The old Pn was the worst for people to understand and prevented new users. And it was even worse on mobile.

I'm trying to be supportive, but the old site worked fine on mobile - I've posted hundreds if not thousands of forum posts from my phone. The current site doesn't work properly at all on mobile. I understand this may not be the top priority and will live with it until it's fixed (NOT with an "app" - if you can't get a web site to work properly I'm not letting you have access to my phone...) but I flatly deny this is "better".

The old web site could do with some sticky "how to"/rules threads. So could the new one. I don't believe the old site was perfect, but I do believe that whatever improvements are made in a major redesign, the onus is on site designers to prioritise making the experience no worse for existing users.

I hope we can all give it time and calmly get used to "moved cheese" - but I do think the developers need to accept that not everything on the new site appears to be an improvement (yes, there's still "Write your reply" under this as I write it, and has been on three platforms...) and we're not all just having unfamiliarity problems. I hope we can give time for the bug fixes.

If - and I don't think we're there yet - we end up with yet another site roll back, I hope any future redesign will a) be mailed to all of us to try beforehand with good notice, b) will be well documented, with public goals and visible issue tracking, and c) incorporate some discussion about the way current users want features to work before they're implemented. That way the existing (paying) members should be able to help and support the project rather than panicking and complaining about it. Include us, we're on your side.

The value of this site is the membership - in the forums and in the galleries. Unless the owners want to start commissioning enough articles to compete with dpreview et al., redesigning a site to attract new members at the cost of driving off those of us used to the interface is going to be counterproductive. I hope to stay positive about this process, but every request for transparency and testing from the previous redesign seems to have had no effect. Things ARE better this time round, but it's not nearly as smooth as it could have been with a dedicated membership providing free effort to the process.

The old web site could do with some sticky "how to"/rules threads.

That would indicate it's a poorly made site. Visit the forums on Fstoppers or Petapixel or DPreview...no instructions or stickies needed. The old Pn was..old. It was convoluted, buggy, and confusing. And visually, it looked as dated as a 1976 Ford Pinto. Pn was not only failing at getting new community members, but worse, people were leaving.

Its just growing pains with something new and unfamiliar. I'm going to give it a shot

That would indicate it's a poorly made site. Visit the forums on Fstoppers or Petapixel or DPreview...no instructions or stickies needed. The old Pn was..old. It was convoluted, buggy, and confusing. And visually, it looked as dated as a 1976 Ford Pinto. Pn was not only failing at getting new community members, but worse, people were leaving.

I'm genuinely sympathetic to the site needing some updates. I'm not sure that people were leaving because of issues with the site - some don't get good experiences in the forums, some get kicked out, some just move on with their lives. But I'm sure that there's a group of people for whom a relatively old-school site won't encourage them to hang around and find the vast amount of content and expertise present here, and I don't object to trying to make things better for them. I just believe it could be done without inconveniencing the existing membership. The old site needed guides and rules because there were arbitrary restrictions like "you can't mention a particular photographer or site on this forum" which were never documented anywhere (and yes, I asked for them to be), not because it was - by the standards of the internet - unusable; yes the image upload confused people the first time and the search was never very successful, but basic forum use worked (and worked well if you don't mind editing some HTML). The new site needs guidelines on how to do all the things we used to know how to do on the old site - because there's no stash of experts in each forum who already know it all.

Its just growing pains with something new and unfamiliar. I'm going to give it a shot

I'm sorry, but that's flatly untrue. We're all used to fawning over new equipment with different ways of doing things, and different moved buttons. Many of us are at least fairly technologically capable and willing to try the cutting edge. This also means many of us actually know what we're talking about when it comes to user interface design.

It's not because I'm unfamiliar with the new interface that I complain that the "Write your reply..." text doesn't disappear on the three different browsers I can use on the site, or that I can't use two other browsers at all. It's not because I'm unfamiliar that I dislike tiny pale grey text on a white background for legibility. It's not because I'm unfamiliar that I don't like being logged out every few minutes. It's not because I'm unfamiliar that I accept that clicking on my messages does nothing at all on my mobile browser, that half the screen is taken up with blank avatars, or that the menus overlap other site elements so I can't use them properly. It's not because I'm unfamiliar that I (and most others) can't change our screen names. It's not because I'm unfamiliar that line breaks are randomly appearing and disappearing, that messages appear on the wrong page, that messages are sometimes missing from thread pages completely, or that there are other layout issues. There are genuine site bugs, substantial and common ones that are actively in the way of attempting to use the site. Most I can reluctantly work around (at some inconvenience, and I have my own deadlines) on the understanding that they're going to be fixed in the near future, which is an improvement over the last update.

I'm supportive of Glenn and the team, because I think they're genuinely trying, and I'm anticipating that they're trying to fix these bugs. I'd love it if there was a proper bug tracker, a status update, and clear goals for each change to the site. What will not make me happy is if they get the impression that the site is acceptable in its current state and they all take a holiday for a month (because I'm sure they've been working hard up to the deadline). It's not. I'll work with them to make it work, but I'm not going to try to work around every bug indefinitely because every concern gets dismissed as user error.

Unlike the analogy with a 'new car' ~ needing to learn where everything is, this site is an AMATEUR MESS! It rolled out without enough thought or care to get things right, and the only response from an ADMIN was to threaten me with having it less available to me. REALLY? LESS AVAILABLE? there are very few things that actually work - and what DOES work WORKS POORLY!

As it stands, the site is useless...

Bigger Icons means slower speed and updates like 3 to 7sec.

After you sign in you cannot just go to Wildlife you have to select "Browse by Categories" then after the screen loads (5 sec ) then go to the bottom for Wildlife. A slow way of doing things. This is also true of you are on a members page and what to return to a category. The new site needs more work to be as friendly and fast as the old site.

Actually, I'm familiar with the forum software as it's used on a couple of other sites where I'm active and where it works 'properly'.

 

Unlike the analogy with a 'new car' ~ needing to learn where everything is, this site is an AMATEUR MESS! It rolled out without enough thought or care to get things right, and the only response from an ADMIN was to threaten me with having it less available to me. REALLY? LESS AVAILABLE? there are very few things that actually work - and what DOES work WORKS POORLY!

 

As it stands, the site is useless...

 

Not sure what you mean threatened you - we simply told you to refrain from swearing in our forums, it is called a warning.

 

 

 

 

As to 'not knowing where the headlights are' I'd like to point out that a new car also comes with an owner's manual - something missing here.

 

Ciao

There is an upcoming release that addresses spacing issues you speak of however this forum software is not proprietary to photo.net - it was build by the best in the business from a company solely dedicated to forum software and they have been at it for more than a decade. I believe what you are experiencing is that feeling when you buy a new car and don't know where the headlights are or how to turn on the wipers, but once you get familiar with it you enjoy it. But thank you for the feedback, it shows you care which is important.

glennpalm Re: threat ~ Post YOUR comments to me - let the community decide.

Never mind ~ I FOUND IT "Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site.

(emphasis - mine)

glennpalm Re: threat ~ Post YOUR comments to me - let the community decide.

I assume there was more than "swearing in the forums is prohibited"? Even so, I think we ought to be able to keep the language civil. Count to ten, and all that. Yes, things that don't work are frustrating; yes, it's useful to be emphatic about these needing fixing, although I don't believe Glenn has ever said that the site worked perfectly (and I HAVE had a go at people who seemed to suggest it did). But, even if you don't like the outcome, these people have worked hard to try to help. Let's work with them to make the site work properly, not send them whimpering into a corner. I can't see that dwelling on this helps anyone. There's always notalwaysright.com if you want to see stories of customers yelling at staff, and how unjustified it can sound from the other side.

Glenn - Instead of getting into an argument with lightrasp, how about concentrating on getting some of the really serious problems fixed. I still can't access any of the pictures in my hidden folders. I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem. Also, why has my favorite file been pared down to 100 photos. Is that the new limit?

Good point - thanks

Oh yes, and it's not because of "growing pains" that I suddenly don't have an edit button. :)

You have 10 minutes to edit your post, just like the old site. Standard controls on this Ferrari of a forum.

Glenn - Instead of getting into an argument with lightrasp, how about concentrating on getting some of the really serious problems fixed. I still can't access any of the pictures in my hidden folders. I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem. Also, why has my favorite file been pared down to 100 photos. Is that the new limit?

They (as in the programmers) are working on it, so I expect we'll have a solution soon. I'm not a programmer, however I do help organize and prioritize the bugs. In the meantime, I'm answering any and all questions I can in effort to help let people know we acknowledge your reporting and we're working on them.

People that swear and are rude will receive warnings, don't know what else to say. As it relates to "your accounts access may be limited based on these actions" - when I click "warn" in the software that message goes out automatically because, well its true. If you continue to act in similar fashion that prompted the warning your presence will no longer be tolerated.