What should I choose? Brand new Canon EOS Elan 7N or a used Canon EOS A2

It's simple! I ask for your help!

 

I am from a country named Romania and the prices here for photographic

equipment are really HIGH! For example, a Canon EOS Elan 7N costs

about 750$ body! The Canon 50mm 1.8 mkII costs around 170$ and I think

I told you everything. Well... the average salary here is around 200$

(I am happy I fit into this category). So I found a friend who is a

student in USA and he agreed to help me buy a camera from BH and this

way to "avoid" taxation in Romania.

 

So I am not quite "rich". I've owned an Canon AV-1 with 3 Canon FD

lenses and I sold everything to buy an EOS.

 

My choise was at first Canon EOS Elan 7N (or 33V I guess) with Canon

50mm 1.8 MK II and Canon 28mm 2.8. This is about 600$ with hoods on

both lenses (Canon hoods, because I understand that on generic brands-

rubber made hoods I can't put filters on the lenses).

 

But I read a few reviews about Canon EOS A2 (EOS 5 Japan)! I liked

what I've read, but the problem wiht the control dial dissaponted me

because there are no services for cameras in Romania, or it would

really cost me a lot. What do you know about B&H Photo Video used

department? They have plenty of A2s there and I am optimistic thinking

they all had a control dial problem and solved forever... or not!

Think I can avoid, if I buy this camera, to break something? I am

really carefull with photographic equipment!

 

Really I am very sorry for this very long messenge. I need your help.

Elan 7N or A2? Is Elan's 7N AF much better then the A2?

 

I must say that my main photographic activities are: street shooting,

landscape, portraits. I also want to have a sturdy camera in my hand,

I know both are toys compared to EOS 1N 1V or 3, but those are too

expensive. Is Elan 7N such a toy? I've heard that if you accidentaly

get her to the gound it will break wihtout hesitation. The A2 is more

resistant, as far as I know. BUT... which is better? Which one should

I choose... wow, this sounds pretty strange. I am not a maniac.

 

Ok. Thank you! You understand my point. A begginer in need for help.

Thank you very very much!

I have an A2 and I really like it. Maybe I got a good one but I have had no trouble with the command dial, or the pop up flash, which is another issue for some people. Although it is older technology than the Elan 7N, I think it is a good value especially of you do a lot of spot metering. B&H is one of the reputable camera stores in NY and I buy from them some times. Another is KEH.com if your friend can do mail order over the web.

 

Jay

I should have mentioned that the Canon 28-105 3.5-4.5 USM lens is not bad if you want a low cost zoom.

 

Jay

I'd go with the Elan 7N. I've had mine for almost a year (who's really counting) and love it.

The handling is great and it feels sturdy in my hands. I dont drop my equipment so I cant

comment on that; I ALWAYS have it on a strap around my neck.

I've yet to have any reliability problems with my Elan 7, and I'm very happy with it. Can't compare to the A2, which I've never used, but don't worry about the Elan being a toy: while it's not a 1 series body it's pretty resilient.

The EOS 5/A2 adds a real spot meter, something the 30v/Elan 7N does not. You can find a decent EoS 5/A2 in the USA for about half the price of the Elan 7N. The EOS 5/A2 feels better, like it's built better & more substantial.

 

All EOS 5/A2 cameras are getting old, and they still have problems with the command dial breaking, and sometimes with the built in flash not working. Both are fixable. There are instructions on www.eosdoc.com for fixing the command dial, and instructions for fixing the built in flash here on photo.net. Neither job is particularly difficult if you are familiar with small tooks & machines.

 

The Elan 7N will probably be more reliable in the long run. So unless you are the handy repairman type, or know sombody close who is, I would go with the Elan 7N.

Seems like you have to go thru a lot of trouble to get a camera

so I would say get a new Elan 7N and be done with it. You never

know when the A2 command dial will break.

On most accounts the EOS 5/A2 is a better camera than the Elan 7N: spotmeter, bigger

and brighter viewfinder, faster FPS and shutter speeds, higher normal flash sync, near IR

AF assist, zoom popup flash, shiftable DEP

mode, interchangeable focusing screens, full set of duplicate control on vertical grip,

better low light AF and no NEVEC problems with flash. The main thing the 7N has going is

better ECF, smaller form, E-TTL II and can be triggered wirelessly with a RC-1. Personally I

found E-TTL II offered little or no

improvement over TTL for direct flash with film. The best thing about the 7N is you can

get a brand new one.

 

I own 2 A2 bodies, one 1992 and a 1996 model. The 1992 model has the original

command dial, is beat to hell and still works perfectly. The 1996 model had the command

dial replaced in 1999 and still works fine.

I'd say unless you are happuy that you may have to repair the A2 buy the Elan 7n.

Look here:

http://photonotes.org/reviews/5-50-30/

Should tell you all you need to know ;)

Get the 7N. But what you shouldn't get is the ridiculous hood for the 50/1.8. What the

Canon one is, is a contraption with a screw on bit and a clip on bit which makes it big,

clumpsy and really funny looking. Get a rubber one instead, for half the price. The rubber

hood is screw on so you can always put a filter on the lens and then screw the hood on it.

Do get the Canon hood for the 28/2.8, it is good and can be used with a 35/2 if you

decide to buy one in the future.

<em>Elan 7N or A2? </em>

<p>

The 7N is more performant obviously. It will last longer. The choice has little to do with the quality of your photos.

<p>

<em>Is Elan's 7N AF much better then the A2?</em>

<p>

Presumably yes, more recent electronics and sensors.

<p>

<em> Is Elan 7N such a toy? </em>

<p>

Depends what you used before. It's a toy compared to 1v which is a toy compared to a 1DsmII-wifi which is a toy compared to a telescope. But it's a tank compared to a 300v which is a tank compared to I don't know what else.

<p>

Buy it, and if you feel it like a toy then put it on the Battery Grip BP-300, add a flash 550ex and a lens 70-200IS and it will be more like the International Space Station :-)

<p>

<em> I also want to have a sturdy camera in my hand,</em>

<p>

What's "sturdy"? What you want with a EOS-line camera is to have all fingers grip the grip (Battery Pack helps) and 1 or 2 fingers free for buttoning (7Ne instead of 7N might help here); do you want it to not break when falling on concrete or on grass? Less vibration? Get a small tripod, or a hand grip, or fix a bone against a fixed-to-Earth body.

<p>

<em> this way to "avoid" taxation in Romania.</em>

<p>

What you want to avoid is customs in Romania <em>and</em> local taxes at the shop. Each can be solved differently. With an old body nobody will tax you normally. You may also want to wait see what's being announced at PMA February/March because after such announcements some prices may drop.

<p>

Hope that helps.

"Is Elan's 7N AF much better then the A2?"

 

"Presumably yes, more recent electronics and sensors."

 

The 7N may be slightly faster in good light. However, in my experience the A2 is more

reliable in low light and with low contrast objects. And, yes, I own a 7NE and A2. 7NE ECF

is killer...

"However, in my experience the A2 is more reliable in low light and with low contrast objects."

 

A-ha, good to know. I don't own A2 and I haven't shot as many pictures as you seem to have.

 

I just know that the 7Ne has not a much better AF than T2, the difference in AF speed is hardly noticeable to me - if any. 7Ne is supposedly prosumer and T2 consumer. Both released 2004: 7Ne March, T2 September. So the difference 7Ne-T2 is somehow like the difference A2-7N, but reversely - the 7N is a class above, not below. And yes, I've owned both until 1 hour ago and did some side by side testing during two days, indoors high- and low-light; not scientifically though (whatever "scientifically" testing AF may mean).

 

What gets me "addicted" to the 7Ne is the ECF. I somehow feel now that overall AF is easier to achieve, independently of how fast the AF itself (beam, phase-change) is, in whatever light conditions.

 

Also, I think it is important to recommend buying a new camera instead of used. I think that only by testing can a beginner decide what's good and what not. Re-selling an A2 is much more difficult than a 7N, especially during these days of digital explosion.

Thank you very much! I will go for Elan 7NE! Alexandru, do you know where can I find an Elan 7nE in Romania? I found a new one on f64studio but it costs about 750$.

 

So Elan 7NE wiht both lenses (50mm 1.8 Mk2 and 28mm 2.8) and Canon hood only for the 28mm. The general brand hood for the 50mm from BHPhotoVideo costs about 4$... really cheap. If it won't be a problem to atach a filter on the lens, I'll buy that. Anyway, putting a hood witch costs about 1/3 of the lens price it's quite funny.

 

Thank you agains for all the good advices! Good luck!

Salut Marius-Catalin,

 

I have an EOS 5. After harping about the lack of a spotmeter on low end cameras someone suggested that if I really wanted a spotmeter I could get a used EOS 5. I put my money where my mouth was and got the EOS 5. (Of course I went digital and could only afford a 20D, which has no spotmeter, back to harping...)

 

You don't get E-TTL with the EOS 5.

 

You do get a really good viewfinder. Much nicer than on the Elan's. This is the feature that would decide me on an EOS 5 over the Elan 7.

 

The two primes are good. I would suggest a Tamron 28-75/2.8 though your inability to try the lens out means danger of a bad sample. You list portraiture in your interests but your lenses are a little short.

"You don't get E-TTL with the EOS 5."

 

And I for one don't miss it for a second... Wish my former 10D had been able to use TTL instead as well....

<em>Alexandru, do you know where can I find an Elan 7nE in Romania? I found a new one on f64studio but it costs about 750$.</em>

<p>

I have no idea, sorry. Just search, call cannon.ro, whatever. I understand the 750usd may look overpriced (apparently less overpriced than 750eur), and that's the case in many other places. If you know somebody into financials s/he will explain why it's so, I have no clue, I just assume Cameras are not the only thing that are more expensive outside US; and it's so basically because "borrowing". If you buy at 750usd it's that you really pay it now, anything less it's that you participate into the borrowing from the future game; or something like that. Think and decide, like in picture taking :-)

<p>

<em>The general brand hood for the 50mm from BHPhotoVideo costs about 4$... really cheap.</em>

<p>

Is BH the only shop you consider? I know of at least 2 other shops in NYC: Adorama and 17th Street 17photo.com (this latter I only read about). Compare the three. Also be warned about the <em>local taxes</em> at shop one may have to pay. Basically it works like this at BH: see vendor, get advice, s/he shows product so you can handle as long as you want, then you decide to buy but s/he won't give you the product, just a ticket with which you go to cashier, who asks you for the money (that money is usually more than what you see on the web) so don't be surprised, then you pay and go to another desk where you give them the latest ticket and they give you the product. So be prepared.

Alexandru, I knew Adorama and I wanted to buy from them, but I've send them an e-mail, then another, and got no answer. The thing is like this: I pay on-line with my International Mastercard but I send the products to an US adress. Then my friend comes with them in Romania... do you thing he could get caught? He will probably weat it on his neck, near to his digital camera... I don't know! What do you think?

 

So BHPhotoVideo gave me a positive answer and they told me that if I were from NY state then there would have been a 8.7% more then the price they give on the Internet, and that is common to any product in NY state in any store. So this is way probably you say that they don't give the right prices. Maybe someone you know bought from there and he had to pay the extra 8,7%. BH told me that I do not have to pay anything more then what is written on my monitor. I belive them, why would they lie.

 

So EOS 5 is very nice, but I choose Elan 7NE. Maybe when I'll have extra money (though I think I would like much more to buy another prime or the 70-210 4 L) I will buy another body.

 

I still have a lot to learn and I think Elan 7NE suits just fine. I've worked utill now only with Zenit, Praktica and Canon AV-1 (all before 1980)... so you know what I mean. When I will really feel the need for spot metering, maybe I'll have that when I'll buy the EOS 3 :).

 

Thanks again. It's really nice to be among such fine people as you are.

<em> The thing is like this: I pay on-line with my International Mastercard but I send the products to an US adress. Then my friend comes with them in Romania... do you thing he could get caught? He will probably weat it on his neck, near to his digital camera... I don't know! What do you think?</em>

<p>

I think that if the person has an address in NY State and pays with a card that has address in NY state then must pay local taxes. Additionally, I've been told this at the Otopeni customs February 2004: If the person travelling to Romania is a Romanian citizen and has a permanent/resident address outside Romania then does not have to pay customs for electronics equipment.

<p>

I have had both good and experiences at the Otopeni customs. Last time it was bad, even if in truth I had no newly acquired equipment with me, I just had too much equipment compared to a common traveller. Depends on who's controlling what and where. Sometimes they're not present at all, other times they're present in massive numbers unpacking every bag, or anywhere in between. Sometimes it's not sufficient to just "appear" used, because they may ask direct questions like "is this object new?" or "is this object yours?" Wearing two cameras around the same neck may attract attention. Also, from what I saw one wouldn't normally wear a SLR-like camera around the neck at the airport, but most often in a camera bag.

<p>

This is my personal experience and people at customs change, laws change, etc.

<p>

You could find out in advance, in case they do ask him/her for paying custom taxes, how high is that going to be. This should be public information somewhere.

<p>

<em>So BHPhotoVideo gave me a positive answer and they told me that if I were from NY state then there would have been a 8.7% more then the price they give on the Internet, and that is common to any product in NY state in any store. So this is way probably you say that they don't give the right prices. Maybe someone you know bought from there and he had to pay the extra 8,7%. BH told me that I do not have to pay anything more then what is written on my monitor. I belive them, why would they lie.</em>

<p>

That's right, I guess that on web with BH if using a Card with domiciliation outside NY state you're not going to pay the NY taxes. Just tell BH that you want delivery in US, with the address <em>and</em> name different than what's on the card. It's not about lying, they can't afford to lie, they have a good reputation.

<p>

<em>Maybe when I'll have extra money (though I think I would like much more to buy another prime or the 70-210 4 L) I will buy another body.</em>

<p>

It's a 70-200 L I believe, not 70-210... I've also acquired it a while back; now I think I may have done better just getting the 135mm L. But I also think it may be that whatever I have I find something else better.

<p>

<em>I still have a lot to learn and I think Elan 7NE suits just fine. I've worked utill now only with Zenit, Praktica and Canon AV-1 (all before 1980)... so you know what I mean.</em>

<p>

It's a different experience for me. The mechanical cameras have a sort of sentimental attachment for me, nothing about the picture quality. Oh, the Canon AV-1... when I was seeing someone using that camera it looked so high-tech, each time it was "wow"; in addition it must have been a foreigner, wow, so rare to see a <em>actual</em> foreigner. I think AV-1 has an exposure needle in the viewfinder, and a focusing screen, so advanced compared to Zenit.

<p>

Also know that the US Elan 7NE does not have DATE, as opposed to the EU EOS 30v which has. Puppy Face has a nice description, I'm sure you saw it.

<p>

About Zenit, I have a friend who would have "sweared" by his Zenit and the bright viewfinder and the primes he has. So much attached to that camera he was. Until recently when he got a Digital P&S :-) But that may change back quickly. Ok, enough of "nostalgie".

Alexandru,

 

So a Romanian citizen studying in USA won't pay any taxes for electronic equipment.

 

What do you recomend me? He should not wear the camera on his neck? Well it's not going to be anything big, just the Elan with the 50mm and 28mm. I hope there would be no problems at all because they would tax me with at least 200-300$, right? So it would be a good idea to buy a photo bag? Think it would distract attention if he would keep it somewhere in his luggage?

 

I've seen that the prices for 35mm cameras are lower then they were in december. I've seen a used Canon EOS 3 wiht battery grip at app. 500 $ . Nice prices! Seen the pictures, quite "used", but it's EOS 5. Not thinking about SH anymore. Better be new!

 

AV-1 was a good camera, but kept it only for 5 months! It had only apperture priority mode, no manual meterning. Really anoying sometimes! But I could overexpose or underexpose over his atutomatic settings by changing the ISO. Well before where was a Praktica with the Zenit. They were for another 5 months in my bag. When I bough them they were looking so "dirty" and hard-used, but I've payed good money to refurbish them somewhere on Coltea Street. They were great then, I thought they were perfect, better then any platic made EOS.

 

There were mornings hunting for strange people in parks and bus stations with the Helios 58mm. Good days... yes! But for a short time. It's like the first time in everything, great.

 

I should have stick to my Av-1 and my pretty lens (only the 50mm was good) and learn real photography, but it's this good ocasion to buy something from the States at such a good price.

 

Thanks!

 

PS: "Ghid Practic National Geographic" is a great book for me, explains a lot. Do you know this book? ("Photography field guide - Secrets to making great pictures" edited by NG Society)

<em>So a Romanian citizen studying in USA won't pay any taxes for electronic equipment.</em>

<p>

I've been told "permanent" residence, not long-term visa, or, as far as I know a foreign student in US does not benefit of "permanent" residence. But don't count on me and what I have been told by some customs officer, just ask them.

<p>

<em>What do you recomend me?</em>

<p>

Contact customs at the airport tell them "RO-citizen student in US", contact BH and tell them "name on MasterCard different than name of delivery", and keep money aside in case that you need to pay more than expected.

<p>

<em> I hope there would be no problems at all because they would tax me with at least 200-300$, right?</em>

<p>

The tax amount in RO - I have no idea. It may vary from 1% to 1000%, I have no idea.

<p>

<em>PS: "Ghid Practic National Geographic" is a great book for me, explains a lot. Do you know this book? ("Photography field guide - Secrets to making great pictures" edited by NG Society)</em>

<p>

I think I've read a French version of some of the volumes in the series, when I re-started (one year ago, yes, I have had a long pause). Not very useful for me. I now think I shouldn't have spent the money on these books. Ok, it's well written text, inviting to buy equipment get out and take pictures, but the nice pictures are not actually detailed with exact instructions. These books take too much place on my shelves now.