What makes a Rebel a Rebel?

<p>Since the EOS 60D was announced a few days ago there seems to be a greek chorus developing on the internet photography forums that it's not a real EOS 60D, it's more of a digital Rebel T3i (or 600D).</p>

<p>Well what makes a Rebel a Rebel? From what I've been able to gather the answer is a plastic body! Doesn't seem to matter what you put in that body, if it's plastic, it's a Rebel. If you put a plastic body on the EOS 7D, it would instantly become an EOS 700D (Rebel). Nevermind that it's engineering grade polycarbonate. Plastic is plastic and everyone knows that plastic cameras aren't as good. Exactly why plastic isn't as good isn't as clear, but it's clearly not good.</p>

<p>You can put in the viewfinder and 9 zone all cross sensor AF system from the EOS 50D, but that's not enough to make it not a Rebel. Even if you actually give it a little more coverage than the 50D, that's still not enough. You can use a real optical Pentaprism rather than a pentamirror, but that makes no difference either. You can add the most capable video system yet found on any EOS DSLR, but no, that's not enough to lift it from Rebel status. You can take the built in wireless flash capability of the EOS 7D and add that. Still not enough. It's got a plastic body, it's a Rebel.</p>

<p>You can use a high capacity battery, like the 7D, but it's still a Rebel since the body is plastic. You can give it a rear QCD and a top panel LCD - but no, it's got a plastic body so it's a Rebel. Likewise an interchangable viewfinder screen makes no difference. Still plastic, still a Rebel.</p>

<p> </p>

Marketing.

<p>Already answered: it's the not-so-clued-in greek chorus, exactly. ;-)</p>

<p>My A2E is plastic and it's not a rebel.</p>

<p>IMO the rebels lack the wheel. And the prism.</p>

<p>This camera just kind of threw everybody for a loop, that's all. The Canon faithful were not expecting the xxD series to split the way it did. They see the 60D as a downgrade because of the shell. And the loss of micro adjust seems to be an issue with many. And now they feel that Canon is expecting them to pay the higher 7D price, putting the squeeze on them if you will to get the xxD quality they used to have. They are just PO'd and venting any way they can.<br />I'm looking foreword to handling the 60D. I bet when it's all said and done, it's going to be a top seller.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>etc, etc, etc, ..... Still not enough. It's got a plastic body, it's a Rebel.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> I think you're somewhat being blinded by the plastic. Rebels are smaller, use a pentamirror, and have a smaller viewfinder and no control wheel or top LCD. None of this means they aren't excellent cameras, but this is the answer to your question in the title of your post.</p>

<p>if it shoots more than 3.x fps, it's not a rebel.</p>

<p>The 60D is going to do well despite internet grumbling. When I shot with one for an hour of so earlier in the month, the fact that the body was plastic made absolutely no difference to me. At the time I didn't know it was plastic and it felt much like the 40D and 50D to hold. I thought the camera was great. The user interface is a little different, but that's more of a matter of getting used to it than anything else.</p>

<p>I's say the loss of AF microadjustment is probably the most significant "downgrade" from the EOS 50D. On the other hand I've been shooting with an EOS 40D and EOS 5D for years now (neither of which has AF microadjustment) and I've never actually felt the need for it. Maybe I'm lucky and my lenses are all well calibrated. Still, it would be nice to have "just in case".</p>

<p>Again though, if the lack of AF adjustment made a camera a Rebel, then my EOS 40D would be a Rebel.</p>

<p>I guess a lot of new cameras are a disappointment to those who have been reading rumors for months and salivating over the possibility of a "7D killer" at a lower price. That would likely be the 7D MkII.</p>

<p>Brett - I think you missed the irony tags.</p>

<p>My bad.</p>

<p>I was most disappointed that it lacks continuous AF in video, which was rumored.</p>

Did you mean "geek chorus?" ;-)

<p>I am not getting this whole plastic thing anyways. Some of my best images are from a Rebel, but for me the viewfinder makes a Rebel a Rebel - the Pentamirror was pretty bad for me, but liveview I am sure would alieve some of my challenge with the pentamirror now. For an amusing look at how durable a "plastic" body is, follow the video at this link, and then go to part two to see images from the cameras after the test.<br>

<p><em>I'd say the loss of AF microadjustment is probably the most significant "downgrade" from the EOS 50D</em></p>

<p>100% agree.<em><br /></em></p>

<p>1. The 60D obviously looks and works like a xxD much more than a Rebel</p>

<p>2. The plastic body is obvious a bad surprise for almost everyone. But that's Canon's point, they can make it the same like the 40D, 50D, or they can even give a better body, but they decide to go with plastics and this is not the first time they do that. If someone don't like it, just don't buy it, and if it will sell fast then Canon wins again. Remember when Canon moved from the metal Canon EF to the plastic AE-1, A-1, was that a failure?</p>

<p>3. It would be great for people who want video in their DSLR, but since I don't care about the LCD and video, I always feel sad to see they make bigger and bigger LCD. Now the LCD is even "getting out" and "jumping around". I feel sad because the buttons are pushed to the right and become very crowded which makes them hard to use</p>

<p>Optical reflex cameras designed like the EOS family can't have continuous phase detection AF. To get it Sony had to throw out the optical viewfinder system and make an electronic viewfinder camera (which is no longer technically a DSLR since it doesn't have optical reflex viewing).</p>

<p>To get continuous phase detection AF Canon would have to drastically redesign the camera, making it much more of a hybrid beast than a true DSLR that also shoots video. It would need to become like the Sony, which is essentially an interchangeable lens video camera with an APS-C sized sensor that looks like a DSLR and also shoots stills. If you push enough video into the thing, it starts to push the advantages of an optical reflex viewing DSLR out. Compromises have to be made.</p>

<p>It's not technically impossible to make a continuous phase detection AF DLSR with optical reflex viewing, but it would need a pretty complex optical system and the required pellicle mirrors would rob the sensor of a significant amount of light, effectively reducing the maximum effective ISO setting (or increasing the noise at any given high ISO setting). I'm not sure that's a compromise that many still shooters would want to see in exchange for continuous AF video.</p>

<p>Of course the rumor mongers don't care. They can wish for (and predict) things that are currently technically impractical to do and at a price that simply can't be met. I'm still waiting for that $20,000 all electric car with a 1000 mile range that outperforms a Porsche 911 and I'll be bitterly disappointed when something is offered at $35,000 with a 100 mile range that won't outperform a Toyota Prius.</p>

<p>The new Nikon D3100 is a DSLR and has continuous video AF, and it goes to ISO 12,800, and it costs $700</p>

<p>Continuous phase-detection AF can be realized by putting the phase-detection sensors on the image sensor. Fuji has already done that in the the <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072109fujifilmf300exr.asp">F300EXR</a>, and Canon has a <a href="http://www.photographybay.com/2010/07/02/canon-patent-looks-to-speed-up-live-view-and-video-autofocus/">patent</a> on this idea.</p>

Don't ride on the new 787 when it comes out if you fear plastic bodies. The wings, save the leading edges are plastic. Why in airplanes? Weight but more importantly the very serious corrosion problems in almost all conventional aircraft that become inevitable eventually. So the D60, for my photography would be just fine and I would save a few hundred bucks. I was talking to this guy without a long lens who said he was going to buy a 7000 dollar Nikon. He couldn't really tell me why, though. Somebody tell me why the material in the body of a camera would affect my normal, every day usage and the quality of my pictures. .

<p>I think it's up to Canon to decide what makes a Rebel a Rebel and what makes a 60D a 60D.</p>

<p>The EOS 1, 1N, 3, 5, D30 & D60 were plastic fantastic, so there is a precedent for use of plastic in pro and prosumer EOS. I haven't seen or touched a 60D, but the smaller size next to the 50D and 7D probably do the most to cause it to be compared to a Rebel/Kiss series. Also, the loss of many dedicated buttons on the back contribute to the Kiss vibe.</p>

<p>All that aside, calling the 60D a Rebel in the USA might actually help sales as the name has more household recognition and it would be sold at more mass market/big box retailers. People have asked me many times if my 7D and 5DII were an older models made before the Rebel (I think the larger size makes it seem old skool to Joe Average).</p>

<p>Rebels lack the control wheel.</p>

<p>Can't say I have used an EOS1, 1n or 3, but I have owned three rebels and after a couple of years all looked like badly abused tupperware containers. The plastic does not wear well. In contrast all the metal skinned cameras I have owned have developed a bit of a classic look to them with age.</p>

<p>The Elan 7N had a nice feel with its combination of metal and plastic skin. Even the better made P&Ss have a metal skin.</p>

<p>You don't hear of plastics or composites being traded on commodity exchanges. That is because it is cheap.</p>

<p>Every newly introduced camera model gets its fair share of "raking over the coals". I don't see this one being any different in that regard. Seems the greek chorus is mostly made up of the whiners, complainers, and trolls.</p>

<p>I think the new 60D represents some forward thinking and ideas brought into reality. If I were in the market for a new camera of XXD caliber, I wouldn't hesitate a moment to purchase one.</p>

<p>@puppyface</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I haven't seen or touched a 60D, but the smaller size next to the 50D and 7D probably do the most to cause it to be compared to a Rebel/Kiss series.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The 60D is not smaller. In fact it's larger than the 50D and the 7D in two out of three axes.</p>

<p><strong>50D </strong>- 146 x 108 x 74 mm<br /> <strong>7D</strong> - 148 x 111 x 74 mm<br /> <strong>60D</strong> - 150 x 107 x 75 m</p>

<p>@Bob Atkins<br>

(I got the sarcasm) From what I can remember from the top of my head, its always been the top lcd and the control wheel besides size that made the difference. We live in a world of plastics, and yes, metal is great sometimes, but other times, who wants to deal with it? I carry around an M4 everywhere I go right now and I love the fact it has plastic on it for carrying ease. Canon upgraded the 50d, and the starting price is very attractive even for someone starting out. I'd recommend a rebel to someone who doesn't know if they'd like it, and I'd recommend a 60D to someone intent on making an investment. Stop hating canon, they upgraded a camera, made it better, and gave it a great price. If you aren't happy with the DSLR's video features, go buy a video camera. Its an extra, not the main feature, at least for now. <br>

@Brett<br>

Interesting so see the biggest size difference in dimensions is at 4mm, giving the 60D the advantage! I was starting to buy it being smaller too.<br>

@ Everyone<br>

And come on, the new viewfinder on this DSLR is a big step forward. I had this feature 7-8 years ago on my powershot A80! This should be as impressive as when they first introduced live view! This should significantly cut out the need for a right angle viewfinder!</p>