alex_hawley Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Seems a given that clouds add drama to the sky - at least, that's what most critics and the public say. So there you are, a beautiful scene, you're dying to photograph it, you may never be in this location again, blah, blah, blah, and there's not a cloud to be seen anywhere. I've used red filters but often the effect appears overdone with a cloudless sky. I read Uncle Ansel and he said keep some good cloud negs handy. That's fine but it seems awful hard to to get the composite print right and soon people start noticing the same clouds in all your photos. Bottom line - I spend a lot of days waiting for clouds. Gets frustrating when you drive a hundred miles for a shot and the clouds go away. There's got to be a better way???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_proud Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Alex, I started waiting for the clouds to be in the area before I went out to shoot. Of course then they wouldn't go away and I'd spend all this time in the field waiting for the sun to peak through. Then I would awake to find nothing but clear sky. I think I went to Monument Valley 10 times before I got both clouds and sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Try watching for weather patterns and weather reports- for example, seems like around here, it's often partly cloudy till noon or so, then nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_hawley Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yeah, I can symapthise. Monument Valley is a 1000 miles (literally) from the house for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 If the sky is boring I include less sky in the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_hawley Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yep, done that too David. My habit in that case is to reach for the red filter. Helps somewhat but can have other distracting effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_cook1 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I have finally decided that I'm not going to travel anymore. Every time I go to a place to shoot, the weather isn't what was predicted, or the tide is out, or something. I once spent a month in 1984 in London, shooting historic buildings. Every one, including two castles, was covered in scaffolding. I didn't know there was that much scaffolding in all of Europe. If I limit myself to a ten mile radius of my studio, I can do freshly fallen snow, heavy fog, nifty clouds, etc with some certainty. I have found that city parks in early morning dew and fog look a lot like far off wilderness. And I'm home for lunch... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I use my medical kit -- two gourds and an eagle feather -- to summon the clouds with the appropiate dance movements and chant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 After dealing with this for a few years in the Sierra Nevada, my solutions are: 1) More foreground, less sky (i.e. find something else to shoot) 2) Go climbing 3) Go backpacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_hawley Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Thanks for everyone's advice so far. Good to know I'm not alone with this dilemma. Bill, is you medicine kit more reliable than the Weather Service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian_olivet Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I live in Hawaii. Here wonderful cottony clouds are pretty common. I was waiting for them for weeks. They came and shot some landscapes with the yellow-orange filter. I have never tried a red yet. I think it overdoes it. But I really want to say is: Cloud negatives? Is that what Ansel said? It sems awfully wrong, at least for me. When I go out there is because I want to put in paper the beauty that was there before my eyes. What is the point of adding clouds to a photograph if they weren't there anyway! I believe in the waiting process. Having the camera close to you -maybe in your car- may help get the shot. That is just me. I don't mean to criticize, I just want to express my opinion. It is a wonderful feeling for me to see beautiful clouds over my lanscape photographs knowing that I was there and saw them with my eyes and that for a long time I'll be able to remember that day by looking at the print hanging from my wall. What do you think?? Thanks, Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph_barker Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I usually try to time major trips in conjunction with weather changes in the Spring, doing the weather pattern research thing on the weather sites. But, my hit rate isn't much better than anyone else's. Hell, I went to Death Valley and it snowed on me! But, in a pinch, I'll add clouds from another negative, paying attention to sun angle, and all of that. It's a pain in the darkroom, but pretty easy if printing digitally. Bill may be able to give up on his day job if those "medical kits" work better. I hear it has a lot to do with how you hold your mouth when doing the chants, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_smith Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 You change your ideas of what & how you shoot & work on images that stand without the clouds. Look at many older images before film could capture skies well. Many strong images there without a cloud showing. Shoot closer. Work with 'negative' space. Get away from the postcard photo mentality & push for more graphic images where the clouds are not what you count on to make the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky2 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Alex -- build yourself a cloud-portfolio for no-cloud days... =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 My medical kit IS my day job. My best gourds are normally reserved for when antibiotics, antidepresents, and cardiac meds, etc. don't work. I think that the eagle feather is probably just a placebo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin_cozine Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 1. pay close attention to the weather forcasts. Either watch the news, or i think some websites have live weather. Those live satellite views are great for predicting when good clouds will be in the area. You may even find a live webcam in the area. 2. Talk to locals in the area to find out what seasons are good for clouds. (here in sacramento, March, April, and November is good clouds) 3. If the sky is clear, darken it via a polarizer or neutral grad. Use a color-saturated film to bring out the color in the landscape. In BW, use an orange or red filter (or a polarizer). The effects of a clear but dark sky are quite impressive. 4. Go digital. Here is a shot that I took in black and white of the CA capitol. The sky was very overcast and hazy.. actually completely white, no cloud detail at all. I scanned the print at 300dpi. Then I downloaded some stock images of clouds, (www.deviantart.com) converted them to BW. I stitched the images together and toned the whole thing.. It took me about 2 hours cause it was my first time trying to seamlessly composite 2 images. Anyway here if the final image (scaled down for the web).<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_marderness1 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 How about a blue filter for a stark white sky. I use this sometimes for architecture. It separates a gray building from the sky nicely. With a yellow or orange filter, the tone of the sky is too close to the tone of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bazzel1 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Pack it up and go out for a nice breakfast. Wait for a better day with better weather. No kidding. This is something I learned in Richard Bown's wonderful book "Pictures from the Country". It is just part of the art of photography. Now you can certainly shoot as you wish but so very much of the photographer's success ultimately is interesting light and weather. ....Learn when to hold'em and learn when to fold'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_hart1 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Want clouds? Come over to the UK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis3 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 You might try doing the same thing for no clouds that I do when the sun is shining brightly and refuses to go behind the clouds so that I can make a photograph in open shade. I wait quite a while. Then I start packing up my gear, at the same time I start saying things out loud like "I'll have to quit for the day, no more photography today for me, I'll pack up and come back another day, etc. etc." As soon as the sun thinks I've given up it will go behind a cloud. If I then unpack my gear very quickly I can get the photograph made before the sun realizes it's been tricked. I'd bet the same thing might work to cause clouds to appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j._mose Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I had the same disappointment when I visited Monument Valley last September. No clouds for three days. Today I am in NYC and heading to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. I am lucky however....blue sky and plenty of clouds. I will be dusting off the red filter! Alex...some days are just better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_shanesy Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 What I do when the sky is cloudless is take my 8 x 10 camera out and make photographs. I do the same thing when there are white puffy clouds in a blue sky. When the sky is overcast I take my 8 x 10 out and make pictures. When there's fog, I go out and make them then, too. Stieglitz said: "Wherever there is light, one may photograph." I don't think he spent much time waiting around for clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_erickson Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 If you want "grand scenics" with lots of clouds, you're going to have to play the weather game. If you go somewhere and the clouds aren't happening, then you should change your objectives and shoot things that don't require big puffy clouds in the background. St. Ansel did a lot of intimate portraits of natural objects--trees, rocks, etc. My guess would be that the cloudy skys weren't happening on those days so he turned his attention to other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarra Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Try to be creative: take some pictures without including the sky, take a better look at the place and try to shoot with some more imagination. You don't have to shoot the whole Grand Canyon to show you have been there. A cactus and a rock might be enough. Simone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvp Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 When you see a sky full of great clouds, take some shots at various angles. Save those for use later on; just choose one with the light hitting the clouds appropriately and mask it into your shot. If you're a wet-darkroom-only type, it's an old, Luddite-approved technique. Much easier to do digitally, tho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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