What are you really going to do?

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by joseph_dickerson, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Hi All,
    A ton has been written, mostly negative, about Adobe's new marketing model. While there has been a lot of unsupported speculation, at least some of the posts have been based on reality.
    However, I haven't seen much if anything suggested as to actual solutions. Alternative software, simply staying with whatever version is currently available, subscribing to the Creative Cloud, chucking it all and going back to film, taking up needle point instead of photography...you get the idea.
    Personally I'm upgrading to PS CS6 and Lightroom 4 (purchased as boxed sets so that I'll have the discs, not as downloads) and letting that do it for the duration. Not sure how long that will be but at least I'm nearer the end of my career than the beginning. I'm using two Macs, a Mac Book Pro and a Mac Mini running 10.6 and 10.8 respectively so all my plug-ins, printer drivers and scanner software (had to buy Vue Scan to replace Silverfast but I'm OK with that) will continue to work. My Canon raw files should be good for a while, but there's always DPP if I get something too recent to be read by LR.
    So what's your plan...I'm sure a bunch of you have already come up with some creative solutions. Maybe we can help another photographer who's still trying to find the best/cheapest/smoothest/most creative workaround.
    Let's hear from you...
  2. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Adobe processing is proprietary, always has been. Same is true of other solutions. Few ever considered moving back a version until this new model! If you use proprietary processing, moving to another solution means you'll lose that functionality. IOW, you can move from Photoshop to anything that reads a flattened TIFF. Upset you lost blend modes from layers you created? Stick with Photoshop.
    If you stick with the current version of Photoshop until you can no longer run it, that's one path. In theory as long as the current hardware you own runs, and you don't update it's OS, you can use CS6 for a very, very long time. Save layered TIFFs and at least you can move to other products after that assuming they can read a TIFF (a flattened version is saved in that document).
    The people who will have the biggest problems are those that migrate to new proprietary processing in CC, then decide they want to go back. Obviously sticking with the new model will allow you to move forward as we've done since day 1 using Photoshop (or fill in the blank name of a software product).
    For those of us that use Photoshop as a tool in our business, the solution is pretty simple: pay Adobe to use that tool and continue to move forward as we've always done. I started editing Photoshop files in 1990 with version 1.0.7 and have upgraded since.
  3. I've posted something along these lines already, but here's my take.
    My existing CS 5 and updated Lr will keep me going for a long, long time.
    If Lr finally goes to CC (and I do not expect that to happen), fine, I'm happy to use Photo Ninja, DxO Optics Pro and Capture One 7 Express as I (also) do now.
    If CS 5 ever breaks and for whatever reason I face the problem others have reported with registration/serial numbers no longer being recognised: well, I was using PaintShop Pro for years before I moved to Photoshop, and it would be no problem to go back - it does everything I need of a pixel editor, and is Photoshop plugin compatible, so I still get to use my Topaz plugins.
    Creative Cloud is a complete non-issue to me, because much as I appreciate the quality of Adobe products, I learned years ago (when RawShooter went belly up - thanks to Adobe, ironically) not to put all of my workflow eggs on one basket.
    purchased as boxed sets so that I'll have the discs, not as downloads​
    There's no real benefit to this, Joseph - Lr is updated often enough that your disk copy will soon be out of date.
  4. My daughter who needs some of the new features has updated to CS6. I am definitely staying with CS5.
    If it were necessary, at some point, I'd even consider going to GIMP, which I now use occasionally. I'd miss my old Photoshop (I started with version 2.5), but there's no way I could justify the monthly or annual license fee.
  5. I find myself starting to dabble with Premiere Pro, LR, PS, AE, and several other pieces of the suite as I work with a couple of clients. The moment you have a few of those in play, and you have to be able to swap projects with other people who expect you to be current, the modest subscription price is actually very attractive.
  6. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Agree with Matt. I think it's a great thing and is the way the world is going anyway.
  7. Although not a particularly creative solution, I decided to do the single app CC subscription for Photoshop, as I already own CS6 Design Standard and give limited use to InDesign and Illustrator. I will continue to purchase Lightroom version as long as they are for sale, and with the new features introduced in Lightroom 5, I see going to Photoshop even less than I do now. That said, some of the new features that will be introduced in Photoshop CC will save me tons of time in retouching. Since I can handle my subscription as a business expense, the CC subscription is a pretty good deal. I'll worry about what to do at the end of my road when I get there ;-) Plus, I keep all my RAW images, so file compatibility is not an issue for me.
  8. My thinking on the boxed sets is that I'll be able to re-install in case of a catastrophic hardware/software issue. And I won't have to go to Adobe to re-download.
    Maybe I'm over-thinking or over-reacting or over-something but it makes me feel better! (He says smugly).
    I'm pleased with the thoughtful responses so far...I hope we continue in this vein. I think we've all had enough of the "gloom and doom/how dare they" for a while.
    I know I've already learned of some options I hadn't considered.
    BTW, if anyone is teaching Photoshop, I spent time today talking to an Adobe rep about the Institutional pricing. If you'd like to know what I learned PM me.
  9. [[My thinking on the boxed sets is that I'll be able to re-install in case of a catastrophic hardware/software issue. And I won't have to go to Adobe to re-download.]]
    Potential for catastrophic hardware/software problems is why people backup their data, including program installers.
  10. I'll just carry on using Phase One and Corel products. And Vuescan.
  11. Stay with P6...and as time goes on use Lightroom to convert Raws from new Canon/Nikon cameras
    Wait for DXO or Capture One to mature.
  12. Generally agree with Matt and Eric. For the current and hopefully for a while though, I'll stick with CS6 and the latest version of LR. Should get me through anything I need to do for the foreseeable future. I also have Cap 1, but not sure I renew to the next big upgrade when it comes because though I felt it had by far the best processing engine giving extra exposure latitude and rendition, as well as color controls, I don't like its interface and LR is catching up to it in IQ and is clouds above in ease of use and file management.
  13. I upgraded to CS6 a year ago when it was announced that in order to maintain the option to upgrade at a reduced price would be limited to the prior version owners only. As it currently stands, it looks as if I wasted those $199 and could have stayed with CS5 - but access to the newer ACR version made it worthwhile nonetheless. As to CC - I take a wait-and-see stance on that one; I am certainly not subscribing now, even at the reduced rate.
  14. Rob,
    Your point is well taken. If I were more of a computer person I probably would have (should have?) chosen that option first.
  15. In my experience, the key to good data backup habits is to set up something that you don't have to think about and works without user intervention. That's why I have a software tool that does all the backing up, overnight, automatically.
  16. I'm just using LR4 currently. I haven't used PS yet, because I've only been shooting for a few years, and haven't made my way there yet. The new CC PS is a bit of a downer for a newbie like me who was hoping to try his hand at PS someday soon, but I just can't justify the long term cost as an amateur. I'm hoping for a Lightroom+ version combining all the best features of LR with the features photographers mostly use from PS, i.e. layers, etc, that won't be subscription. Tailoring LR more and more for photographers' needs, and keeping PS more so for design and multi-media.
  17. My thinking on the boxed sets is that I'll be able to re-install in case of a catastrophic hardware/software issue. And I won't have to go to Adobe to re-download.​
    You can always keep a back-up copy of the latest version of the installation files (and to reiterate, you will be going back to Adobe to download if you want to keep current with Lr) on a USB stick and/or an external hard drive, Joseph.
  18. I'm probably going to stay with CS5 and LR3. I tried LR4 -- liked it, but not that much. I'm wedded to Adobe, but have this love/hate relationship. In many ways it is very clunky and resource greedy software. There has to be a better more elegant approach down the road. I rely more on plugins than I do on the core software these days. Maybe as some point I will migrate to another core platform. I suppose I'm like many of us in that I have used the PS platform for so many years that to use a different one would be a significant learning curve.
    As image files get larger and even with larger and faster CPU and OS, PS is a slow process and getting slower as time goes on. I have 5 TB of drives here for images and backup and am near running out and will have to double that in the next couple of months. I have a new mid-level iMac in one location and a full house previous gen. iMac in the other. The older one with 16 GB of RAM is fine, but the newer one with only 8GB is challenged at times. Adobe software across the board are RAM eaters. Sometimes I feel like we are moving backwards. Workflow becomes a real challenge. I recently returned from a six-day shoot on a navy vessel with 3000 images of my own and I brought with me 20,000 that my son had shot the previous 8 months during his deployment. It has taken 6 weeks of a couple of hours a day to simply make one pass through those 23,000 images. They are fairly large having all been shot with D7000s, but still... LR and PS did both contribute to the management and slowness of the process.
    I will not become partly cloudy in this next generation.
  19. I'm probably going to stay with CS5 and LR3. I tried LR4 -- liked it, but not that much.​
    Sticking with 3 will bite you if you upgrade cameras, unless you're happy to convert every one of your new camera's files to DNG.
    What is it about 4 that didn't click with you? Pretty much without exception, everyone I know (or have read the opinions of) - once they've got past the upgrade learning curve - has agreed that in terms of the end results each version is capable of, 4 easily beats 3.
  20. I agree that 4 is better, but I didn't think that much better. My 30-day free trial is about over. I do only a little processing in LR. I use it mostly for sorting and workflow management. I do the heavy lifting in PS. If LR were my primary tool, I would upgrade. But since it is not and I didn't find myself using most of the new capabilities, there wasn't a lot there that I found compelling.
  21. Ah - you're not shooting Raw then?
  22. I am shooting RAW.
  23. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    I am shooting RAW.​
    So you're using Camera Raw instead?
  24. Newer OSen and newer software versions combined with larger MP cameras compels more memory to be utilized. 8 GBG on your newest iMac is simply not enough to get the best performance, and I would strongly recommend that you double that. Memory is very cheap nowadays.
  25. I do not like PhotoSlop, I do not use it I will not use it. So where is the problem? If Chevy says you have to park their new model you just bought in their parking lot in Detroit every night you buy a different brand.
  26. I do not like PhotoSlop, I do not use it I will not use it. So where is the problem?​
    Well - obviously - this conversation is meant for those that do, Wayne.
  27. Carl, I have come to the same conclusion. Andrew, I am using Camera RAW. In the digital image world it is not just the camera or the lens, but the whole of the system that has to work together -- that includes everything from CPU through OS through software through storage... etc. I think we tend to focus way too much attention on the camera and lens and pay too little attention to the other components in the system, which are every bit as important.
  28. There is a special discounted price for CS6 owners for the first 12 months. I will use CC for that first 12 months, but hang
    onto CS6 to use at the end of that 12 months just in case Adobe does come to their senses
  29. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Andrew, I am using Camera RAW​
    Which if the same version parity with Lightroom is identical. Use the tool you prefer then. LR4's PV2012 processing is vastly superior to ACR's older (PV2010) processing however. That means if you prefer ACR workflow, you probably want to upgrade Photoshop for ACR 8.
  30. Andrew, as I understand it, PS CC 6 is going to go to ACR 8, same as LR 5. If you drop back from PS CC 6 to PS CS 6, you will be limited to ACR 7. That will make editing any of the new ACR 8 features un-editible in ACR 7. That won't present a problem for folks that stay with the CC version, but it could be a consideration for those thinking that they can just go back to CS 6 without any differences in capabilities.
  31. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    ACR in CC and CS6 are not the same in terms of functionality. They will have the same version numbers but newer functions will only be available in CC.
    Going back a version with any software, CC, ACR is always going to be problematic! If you were using Photoshop 3, which was the first to support Layers and went back to Photoshop 2, those layers would not be accessible. Nothing here has changed! People are just now aware that they have to keep paying for CC, so they are considering the ramifications of using it a year or so, then going back a version which is never a good idea (well never a good idea without a very good game plan how to do so).
    You can today move from ACR 7 to ACR 6, but any newer features in ACR 7 would naturally be non-accessible in ACR 6. Nothing new.
  32. So, if I edit an image in PS CC (ACR 8), then decide to drop CC, going back to CS 6, can I then move the image into LR 5 (ACR 8) and continue editing the new features? Or, are those CC features exclusive to CC 6? My thoughts were that since LR 5 and CC 6 use the same ACR version I could do that, but that's only a guess on my part.
  33. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    So, if I edit an image in PS CC (ACR 8), then decide to drop CC, going back to CS 6, can I then move the image into LR 5 (ACR 8) and continue editing the new features?​

    Only if the two versions are on parity.
  34. For a lousy $10 a month for a year, I took the PS CC subscription. I don't see where I can lose much, and there are rumors that Adobe might couple CC 6 with a CC version of LR 5, with a good combo subscription price.
    I can't wait until next week when Apple is very likely to present a new MacPro without an optical drive. You'll need some strong noise canceling capabilities to block out the screams from the crowd. It's the future, like it or not. I really like the CC feature of being able to DL my apps, as opposed to talking to Adobe customer support trying to get a new activation number because my HD went south. ;o)
  35. Andrew, not that it's a big deal, but I'm pretty sure that layers were introduced in Photoshop 5.5.
    I started on PS3 and there definitely weren't any layers. I'm certain of that much 'cause I remember they scared me to death when they first were introduced.
    This has been a kewl thread, glad to see so many well-expressed opinions. Plenty to think about.
  36. Lest anybody think Adobe's alone with subscription-based software, you're all probably aware of Microsoft's latest subscription offer described here http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/home-premium/?WT.intid1=ODC_ENUS_FX101785584_XT104052692. I do think they have a better deal going. For those of us with many software users in the house, $100 a year for up to 5 licenses of the latest Office software is a pretty good deal.
    Adobe has already changed their plan by letting folks purchase CS6 now with a perpetual license, so it's not unlikely that they will listen to large portions of their audiences regarding future tweaks to the program.
  37. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Andrew, not that it's a big deal, but I'm pretty sure that layers were introduced in Photoshop 5.5.
    I started on PS3 and there definitely weren't any layers.​

    You're talking to a guy who started with 1.0.7 in 1990, been a beta since version 2.5 <g>:
    Like that difficult third album which can make or break a band, version 3 had to really deliver if it was to corner the market. Fortunately, the team had a whopper of an ace up their sleeve: layers.
    1994 – Photoshop 3.0
    The big story for Adobe Photoshop 3.0 was layers. Layers were and are a lifesaver for any marginally complex design.
  38. Thanks for the information, I have been telling my students it was 5.5 forever. Oops!
    Hope that's all the mis-information, or at least the worse mis-information, that I've fed the little darlins!
    Don't guess it matters...all this digital photography stuff is just a fad anyway!
  39. digitaldog

    digitaldog Andrew Rodney

    Trust but verify <g>
  40. I'm going to designate only 1 single workstation to CC. This machine will serve as a special place in which to convert any incoming or outgoing files as necessary and will also be known and used for any other capability that eventually supersedes CS6.

    Some others workstations will be designated as CS6 machines into perpetuity until their obsolescence. I expect 8 years minimum productivity. I still run CS2 on some PPC machines which are working very well for both creative, retouching, and other machine controllers such as scanners and printers.

    As an individual, I would purchase CS6 and expect it to be my last purchase of a suite, although hoping Adobe would reconsider their model. I would involve a cooperative for any future capability, if necessary.

    As far as I'm concerned, Adobe makes tools.

    I'm configuring tool boxes, tool sets, workstations. This is no different than a machine shop or manufacturing line. Not every tool box or workstation is necessarily the same. In fact, it's common for machinists to use their personal tool sets. Luxology's Modo 3D software lets users move their license from machine to machine to machine, etc.

    Some tools are leased (Xerox), some tools are rented (Panavision), etc. Some toolmakers are more greedy than others. Some stifle progress as an unintended consequence. Some try to create and differentiate market segments upping the ante for the smaller player wanting to hang with the big dogs. Some win, some loose. Some have revolving doors for their CEOs. Some grow to become behemoths and crumble under their own weight. Some "shrink-wrap" their different acquisitions and promote the collection as "suites" but still after 6 versions of the "suite" can't use the same common key command to close the app. Really?

    As far as I'm concerned, Adobe makes tools.

    It appears they expect monthly fees for "tool rental." Usually I rent tools which I need only for a short time and then I return them. Thanks, Home Depot, for renting the hammer drill for concrete. Thanks, Cruise America, for renting the vacation motor home.

    My monthly payments only go to services and consumables. Thanks, Mortgage Servicer. Thanks, Water District Service. Thanks, ISP Service. Thanks, All-the-Others including my consumable cable television entertainment and news and timely magazine subscription articles.

    Is Adobe CC a service or consumable? In my opinion, neither.
  41. This morning my 30 day free trial of PS CC expired, and I was connected to the CC version of PS 6, which of course, upgraded PS 6 ACR to ACR 8.1. Just now I DL'd the 30 free trial of LR 5 in anticipation of a new pricing offer for LR CC from Adobe for that app. If, no such offer is forthcoming then I'll simply buy the LR 5 upgrade. I avoided the LR 5 beta version on purpose to let them get the bugs out before I got the app.
    I haven't even looked at LR 5 yet because I was watching Apple's live streaming of the 2013 WWDC, which was very impressive, IMO. Now, we go look at LR 5.
  42. ted_marcus|1

    ted_marcus|1 Ted R. Marcus

    For the time being, I'm sticking with CS5. I had considered upgrading to CS6 just so I could preserve my upgrade options, but the switch to rental happened before I did that. The good thing, I suppose, is that it saved me $200 for an upgrade I otherwise would not have considered buying.
    If I get a new camera, I'll buy Lightroom to do the raw conversion and file organizing. It's cheaper than an upgrade used to be; and it's Adobe's official path for people like me who aren't professional graphic designers that have no choice but to rent their their software.
    If Adobe's greed inspires the talented community of open-source developers to upgrade The GIMP to fully support color management, 16-bit processing, and Photoshop plug-ins, I'll replace CS5 with that.
  43. Let's hope it's just another New Coke and Adobe comes to their senses. I was in an online chat with an Adobe rep today and I politely told him I would never join Creative Cloud. I asked him to pass my sentiment on to management.
  44. Paint.NET
  45. If Adobe actually continues to upgrade and make LR available outside of the subscription business model, I'm good with that along with my present version of CS6. If not, nature and business abhor a vacuum. Someone or some company will step up to take advantage of stupidity.
  46. I just updated Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Lightroom to the latest versions before they disappear behind the Creative Cloud. That should hold me for a few years until alternative products become available.

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