What am I missing?

Im planning to jump into the weddding photography biz in the next few months

here in Toronto.

I am not sure if I am missing any necessary equipment. so far I have the

following:

Nikon d70 (planning to buy a Nikon d80 or d200 as additional cam)

flash -SB800

Compact flash card (1 GB and 4 GB)

Nikon 18-200mm VR lens

Nikon 50mm 1.4D lens

Manfrotto Tripod with ball head

storage

desktop for post production

planning to buy additonal batteries as well

 

Is there anything else Im missing? Would I need umbrellas or is this something

you can get later?

Do you have a strobo-flip frame or other flash bracket to get the flash off the camera?

 

If you are shooting RAW (recommended) you may want to get more flash cards. Better to have more and not need the space.

 

One photographer I worked for had a laptop and he would download the flash cards at the wedding and burn CD's of the original images as time allowed. This would be a lot extra to do at your first wedding, but it isn't a bad idea.

You need to think of your worst case scenario and how you would cope with it. For example you have no backup lens or flash, I've broken enough flashes mid wedding to never go out without a backup. A 50mm on a crop camera is not good enough focal length wise to shoot a whole wedding with should your lens fall and break (done that too!).

 

If you are shooting RAW then 5 gig will probably not be enough for a 10 megapixel camera, if youre shooting jpg without extensive experience in shooting weddings with jpg, good luck is all I can say.

You should get into the "biz" gradually by assisting and learning what a pro does and uses. Don't get the D80 it uses the smaller flash cards, the D200 uses the regular CF cards like your D70. You will need many more of these, I would get 2gb size in case of failure you won't loos as many images. Your 18-200 VR is a nice does everything lens for serious amatures, but it is going to be too slow for weddings indoors. The VR does not make up the slack for a 2.8 lens. Your 50 will be helpful but you might be limited. The fact that you are asking about umbrellas means you have some more reseach to do. Flash diffuser would be more practical. Read books and get educated, try to assist or second shoot if you can, if not read and research. Remember how important this day is to the bride no matter what the budget.

I am a wedding videographer on a part time basis so I had the opportunity to work with several professional photographers. Hopefully my experiences with weddings will help me a bit. There was one photographer had to use an umbrella for his portraits shots although I thought that a diffuser like the Lightsphere would be okay. I have yet to ask other photographers in my area if they need a second shooter. The only problem is they might think of me as a competitor since I am also a wedding vendor.

I would really prefer to shoot as a second shooter in order to have a tast of the profession but if no one would accepts me then I have no choice but to look for budget brides.

IMHO... At least a wedding vid guy has a leg up on most that seek help on Pnet. You can debate all day about how much experience one needs to shoot weddings.

 

I think Gene Ho has one studio in Toronto (and several others across the country) and he cut his teeth on D70 bodies for a few years.

 

I would focus my funds on faster glass and used D70 bodies ($500 each). I would stick to the D70 because I always hated mixing the D70 and D200. Minor differences were annoying at weddings. The D80 is a big NO because they use different cards.

 

Then move up in class of camera.

I have a feeling you need a lot more than equipment. Can you walk into

any indoor/outdoor situation and guess the exposure within about a stop? Do aperture/

shutter/iso settings come absolutely intuitively to you? Do you know all about using flash

(main, fill, bounce, etc.)?<p>

You don't necessarily have to learn technique shooting or assisting on weddings. There

are many other events that are not so filled with personal memories as weddings that

require many of the same techniques. You need to hone your skills to be able to

recognize light, know when to use flash and not to, know how to bounce light, know how

to anticipate moments, get to know your gear inside/out, how to work with people and

pose people, etc.

<p>

If you do try to book a bargain wedding, please let them know that you are a beginner at

this so they know what they are signing up for.

<p>

Regarding your original question, I'd say you definately need that second camera. I'd buy

about 2 or 3 times as many flash cards (are you shooting RAW or JPG). I'd ditch the

18-200mm lens and get a high quality mid-range zoom and a couple of fast primes to

start. I'd get a second flash unit along with a bracket and diffusor (omni or LS).

You need a business plan. Also, consider an accountant, a lawyer, and an insurance agent.

Always look before leaping (or in your case "jumping").

I've been deleted...:(

It's more about technique and preparedness to deal with the flow of the wedding and the cast of characters. Equipment is secondary but it is essential to have backups for everything. I've known photographers who have actually had three cameras fail at a wedding. Luckily he had a fourth in his car.

You need a second flash in case. You need a lot of extra batteries. Batteries fail too, even the rechargeables. You need more memory cards. They are cheap. I don't know too many digital shooters that don't carry at least 20GB. I always have 30GB at a wedding. I don't use it all, but you never know. :)

 

If you are happy with your D70, get the D200 for your "other" camera. You'll probably make it your primary.

You don't need umbrellas unless you are using studio flash for formals. If you do go that route, bring an assistant. You can't take a long time to set up.

 

First and foremost...if you plan on getting into the wedding business, you need a business plan, a contract (absolute necessity), and some insurance for both equipment and liability. If you don't think you need those you haven't read enough photography forums. :)

 

Good luck!

 

Lou

"Is there anything else Im missing?"

 

Well, Billy, for starters you seem intent on 'doing' your first weddings without a backup

camera, without a backup flashgun, without a backup tripod, or without enough memory.

Either flash memory or a PSD.

 

Imo you're asking for trouble.

You wouldn't be making such basic mistakes if you had assisted a pro photog for a dozen

weddings before 'jumping in'....

Billy, I saw you posted recently about wanting to become a fashion photographer. There is a HUGE difference between wedding photography and fashion photography. They require completely different mind-sets and attitudes, not to mention different equipment and technique and style. What do you really want to do? Honestly, if you do not know then you have not been doing this long enough yet. I recommend not to just "jump into weddding photography".

A GENERAL ANSWER:

 

I have found this type of question common in the short membership period of photonet; a credit to photonet as a resource to upcoming professionals.

 

The answers from Photographers `doing it` seem to fall into two families: one say go out and get experience yourself, perhaps, by starting with `budget weddings` and others say go get apprenticed to a successful Professional.

 

There seems also to be a group of advisors, (perhaps some are successful professionals), who comment along the lines of, `don`t take any notice of those old school types, they are just knocking you, just get out and wing it, you`ll be fine.`

 

So, before someone begins to `cross swords` with me; let`s say at least both families of professionals, (and also the latter more `radical` group), agree that a new Wedding Photographer needs to get experience, in some way.

 

I fall into the category which believes doing time as an assistant for a year over about 40 to 50 weddings is very valuable.

 

Also, I believe a grounding Photographic Theory is valuable, so too is an understanding of small business practice. So I advocate doing both Photography and Business Courses and also joining a Professional Association.

 

My views are based mostly upon: training as a cadet and apprentice; education; experience as a teacher, photographer, cinematographer, editor and business owner.

 

I didn`t join photonet to convert anyone to my way of thinking. I respect that we all have different paths to follow. I welcome feedback and comment to my views, but I am not too keen on being misquoted or my comments taken out of the context of their whole meaning. I attempt to precisely answer the questions asked, thus contributing to an Art and Profession about which I am passionate. I answer directly and technically but my answers are not directed personally.

 

I make no apology for treating these questions as professionally as I would treat a client, Bride and Groom and in my answer, articulating the ability, expertise, knowledge and equipment I would expect from (with experience), an Assistant, on site with me.

 

THE SPECIFIC QUESTION:

 

> I am not sure if I am missing any necessary equipment. <

 

I believe you are VERY LIGHT on equipment. A Minimum 35mm Wedding kit for your consideration:

 

ON THE SHOULDER: 2 bodies (same or similar) with equivalent Full Frame 35mm to 200mm lens coverage in two zooms, at preferably f2.8 (at least the longer at f2.8), two dedicated flash units (same or similar, preferably slave function) with new batteries on cameras.

 

AT THE READY: Monopod; 10 x 2Gb cards; or 24 x 24 exp 135 400ISO; Equivalent Full Frame fast 50mm or 85mm lens (f1.8 or faster); Flash Diffuser to fit Flash Units.

 

SPARE in BAG and OTHER ITEMS: Tripod; 3 extra camera batteries; 12 New AA batteries (Flash spare) ; Spare camera body, (manual, film is OK) with equivalent 50mm (F2 or faster), with spare flash on bracket, ready to shoot; Lighting GAF tape; Swiss army knife; Felt Tipped Markers; Masking Tape; Notepad and Pens; Heavy Duty Garbage bags; 10 Large Zip lock Plastic bags; about $100 cash; 6 clean white handkerchiefs; mobile phone; Jelly Beans; Water.

 

PREFERRED MINIMUM ADDITIONAL ITEMS: Equivalent Full Frame 28mm (or 24mm if it can be used properly) F2.8 or faster; Equivalent Full Frame 100mm or 135mm prime, F2.8 or faster (or combination prime / macro); Flash Gel (especially Florescent correction); Lightweight Tripod for Flash Slaves; Spot meter; Photographic Grey Card.

 

> Is there anything else Im missing? <

 

I note you ask this question with regard to getting into business; I reiterate former comments in regard to what you might be missing.

 

Amongst other items, key factors you should consider: A Business Vision; A Business Plan; A Product Offer; A Pricing Structure; A Marketing Plan; A Workflow Plan; Legal Advice; Insurance Advice; Taxation and Accounting Advice; and experience by doing at least 20 Weddings as an assistant to a successful Professional.

 

You might consider a course in small business and still photography. Cine or video is an allied, but different discipline. Photographic theory will not be a burden.

 

WW

 

I don't think he seems "intent" if he is asking what else he needs. If we say get a back up of everything and better glass, he would probably look at his budget and see what is attainable. Yes get more memory. Someone said 20gig...sounds about right. Get another body. Get another flash. A ton of batteries. I love my Tamron 28-105mm 2.8 as a good all around lens. This is to start with. When you get a ton of money blow it all on the perfect setup and get another one exactly like it as a backup. ---- As far as business plan, lawyer, insurance...well, you didn't ask about that so I won't be a Mr. Know-It-All and tell you how to run a business. Heck, you maybe even already did all that first like a good boy and left your equipment for the end. :)

> As far as business plan, lawyer, insurance...well, you didn't ask about that so I won't be a Mr. Know-It-All and tell you how to run a business. Heck, you maybe even already did all that first like a good boy and left your equipment for the end. <

 

Actually, I read the question to mean he was asking for an all encompassing answer.

 

I linked the phase: `Is there anything else Im missing`

 

as a general expansion of:

 

` Im planning to jump into the weddding photography biz in the next few months here in Toronto.`

 

This general expansion a `business question`, (the first sentence), was confirmed in my mind, by the lack of acknowledgement of any business planning outlined in the question.

 

And I answered the question as such, drawing perceived oversights regarding a business set up, to the questioner`s attention.

 

In my opinion, the `Mr Know it all` and `like a good boy` phrases add little to the contribution; and may in fact detract from specific suggestions such as: confirming 20Gb is a good number and the suggestion about using a specific Tamron Lens.

 

As I said in my previous thread, we all have different roads to follow, and mine is not to convert others to my way; please comment on the technical content of my opinion and offer other suggestions, but please don`t attempt to ridicule my contribution with sarcasm.

 

WW

wow so many response...thank you for your opinions. Im learning so many stuffs. im okay with the business aspect as it will be another service for my videography business.

 

At this moments Im also taking professional courses so I could hone my skills as I know that a wedding day is valuable and I dont want to take any chances even to just to gain experience. it is not the wedding season yet so I still have time to learn. Im hoping to start 6 months from now

 

I would have to agree with some of you saying that I would need assist a photographer in order to get experience. I know people would disagree of shooting for the first time even for budget brides. Regardless, any newcomers would have to gain some experience either way.

 

I know that I would need a backup of everything (same as videography- you need two of everything). But for newcomers who have a limited budget like me, I might have to stick to what I have and gradually invest in more equipment. It can be expensive to get all ideal equipments and set up just to get a small bite of the industry at this moment. which takes me to another questions..do you really think the Nikon 18-200mmVR lens 3.5-5.6 would really be slow indoors? I mean I dont know if I can afford the lens with 2.8 aperture at this point. Have any of you guys tried it during an indoor ceremony?

Billy -<p>

From your follow up responses, I really get the feelling that you are much too new to all this and that, regardless of equipment, you need a lot more experience in photography before taking on a wedding of your own. There's much, much more to this just equipment. You need very sound fundamental photo skills, people skills, and busines skills. Once you have those, then think about the equipment.<p>

Now if you don't even know what equipment you need, how will you know how to use it, when to use it, and why? Backup equipment is essential. If you don't have the money, then you need to rent or borrow equipment, or take out a loan to get your business going. That is what someone who is serious about this would do.<p>

I'd really recommend trying to network with local photographers. You'd be surprised how many would be willing to help you out or offer an assisting gig. Honestly, have you really tried very hard to look?

I said in a couple short sentences what others have said in a couple paragraphs. I was deleted for being too mean. I think the best advice doesn't mince words. Maybe not what you want to hear by but what you NEED to hear.

 

Mike

> do you really think the Nikon 18-200mmVR lens 3.5-5.6 would really be slow indoors? <

 

Yes.

 

There are many concerns, just one key example in a Wedding Coverage:

 

Consider the very few options you have if the Officiating Party rules `no flash in the ceremony` and because of your viewpoint your 50mm prime is unsuitable. At the range 50mm to 135mm the zoom lens would be about f4 or f5 wide open

 

Using this aperture at 800ISO in a BRIGHT indoor setting you MIGHT squeeze off 1/60th. My concern is not the camera movement, the VR should handle that; but how do you freeze (as one example) the Bride`s forward motion and nervous hands?

 

Add the next complication, the Officiating Party does not allow you to shoot down the aisle, but only from the pews, or gallery; you are now attempting to freeze motion from 45degrees, or worse 90 degrees; the problem has become four times more severe.

 

And the Bridesmaids, or more likely the Flower Girl or Page Boy, bolt down the aisle at a canter: you are now SNAFU.

 

And for the rest of the day you await the explaining session to Aunty Mary, the Sister of the Mother of the Bride. She is going to ask why you don`t have a clear picture, the ONE PICTURE SHE WANTED, little Mary and Peter, HER children walking down the aisle at their big Cousin`s Wedding.

 

There are more real scenarios: remember this one was in a reasonably BRIGHT interior.

 

> Have any of you guys tried it during an indoor ceremony? <

 

No, I have not used this particular lens. On the other hand I have covered in excess of 1200 Weddings.

 

The physics of a shooting scenario are not altered by the lens make or model, rather the choice of lens should limit the problems and restrictions posed by various shooting scenarios one is likely to encounter: and a critical choice if one is contracted to perform.

 

WW

Mr. W--while I completely understand your logic, I do believe one can successfully use such a lens for a wedding. It isn't as easy or as convenient as faster zooms or primes, but it can be done. Unfortunately, it takes an experienced photographer to do it well and to avoid the pitfalls. Most officiators will allow flash during the processional/recessional, which solves the freezing problem if you know how to drag the shutter, and no-flash shots during the ceremony can be taken with a tripod AND knowing when to press the shutter button, not to mention re-creating key shots later, if necessary.

 

In my experience, new wedding photographers make the same kinds of mistakes with a slow zoom as with a fast zoom or prime. The slow zoom just makes them worse.

> I do believe one can successfully use such a lens for a wedding. <

 

Your point is taken and graciously accepted.

 

It is apparent that most of us when wanting to prove a point or illustrate an issue, (especially to help someone), take an extreme case to render impact.

 

I certainly have taken a case to the extreme and quite correctly you make a logical case that the lens in question and a 50mm F1.8 could in fact be used to cover a wedding in toto.

 

I would be willing to wager that you would be one person capable of doing justice to the Bride and Groom`s contract if put in that position with only the two lenses and a dimly lit church.

 

But I guess the question is, would you (or me) like to do all your weddings equipped this way, and the issue for Billy is add limited experience?

 

And it seems, if I understand the major thrust of your comment, you made that point quite clearly in your last sentence.

 

[Heavens, in a couple of month`s time I might sprout off and reckon I could, and I have more credibility if someone else first said it is possible :) ]

 

Seriously: good point and the other comments also, your point is taken.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

If your also interested in the video side of weddings, there is a training video that a company called Elite Video sells that discusses the secrets of the top Wedding Videographers. If you're interested in checking this out here's a link to their site: http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=102

 

Thanks!

(quote)If your also interested in the video side of weddings, there is a training video that a company called Elite Video sells that discusses the secrets of the top Wedding Videographers. If you're interested in checking this out here's a link to their site: http://www.elitevideo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=102

Thanks!(/quote)

 

Thanks Martha..I have his DVD when I started out..It improved my camera techniques and composition. I also emailed John Cooksey several times and was very helpful and willing to give advice. He gave me an advice/idea to how I should start my wedding video business. So I guess I owe him my success. He has another DVD which I have which focuses on lighting techniques for video..Im sure it is also helpful for beginners in studio lighting.