Wet mounting with baby oil? If so how to clean.

<p>Hey Guys,</p>

<p>I am trying to wet mount modern colour negatives on my custom reproduction rig and I want to figure out the best way to go about doing so with baby oil.<br>

I've already experimented with baby oil and while it's very messy and there are bubbles <strong>it is the only solution that does not stink to high heaven and is not toxic or volatile.</strong><br>

<strong><br /></strong>I've also bought some naptha but I can't work with it without thick gloves and forced ventilation - I really din't expect it to be that big of a deal but it's nasty stuff!</p>

<p>So i've already did some wet mounting badly with the baby oil and I have yet to figure out how to clean the negatives afterwards.<br>

One way would be to wash it with some dish washing liquid diluted in a warm bath and then give it another wash with fotonal and hang it up to dry but I am worried this will destroy the negatives.<br>

The other way that comes to mind is washing it with the naptha and then in clean water and then in the fotonal and hang up to dry.</p>

<p>Which one would make more sense? maybe a different idea altogether? I am located in europe so literary 99% of what people recommend to use for wet mounting is not available at all, can't be delivered and even if it could it is prohibitively expensive when you add up customs/postage and currency exchange. </p>

<p>I would prefer to wash the negatives in a way that does not require rubbing them with any sort of pads since the baby oil will in practice get onto both sides most likely and I don't want to rub the emulsion off. <br>

Cheerio,<br>

BP</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I wet mount all my scans and hear you. The stuff I use is Lumina, at $18 for an 8oz bottle. According to the msds it is Kerosene. What you want is the clear and odorless lamp-oil from your hardware or walmart store. At walmart I can get 4l for $12. You will need a spray bottle.</p>

<p>Funny that I was actually looking this up tonight. You win, I win... :)</p>

<p>Stay away from the baby oil as it will be next to impossible to clean off. The kerosene (lamp oil) will evaporate on it's own.</p>

<p>You might want to give this a read..... http://myfilmstuff.blogspot.ca/2010/04/5-wet-mount.html</p>

<p>Kami fluid ! Always Kami Fluid! Nothing else:<br>

http://aztek.com/Epson%20V750%20KAMI%20Kit.html</p>

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>Good stuff - I've been doing a ton of reading so I am trying out all the different approaches.<br>

Kerosene is actually a rectified version of naptha according to the internet so I will try and get that next. Spray bottle is a good idea although I am slightly worried about it increasing the amount of bubbles to deal with and also about breathing in the fumes (even if odourless there can be fumes with these kind of chemicals). I think the rectified naptha is sold in pharmacies over in my area too - it might be the same thing but I don't know, some people call it medicinal naptha and reportedly use it for their hair.</p>

<p>I am not sold on the mylar - I think it makes a bit more sense to cut out the specific frame I want to work with (120 film btw.) and then liquid mount and tape down the edges. I've already tried this with baby oil and it seems with an improvement in technique (to make it less messy) it would be possible. For contact sheet type shots I just want to dry mount but for stuff that is going to be printed I will be working at high magnifications and using a slow manual process so I think cutting out the frames will have to be done even if I go with the mylar when liquid mounting.</p>

<p>The shots I want to liquid mount will be reproduced once and reproduced well so I plan to just cut them out and then just store them in an archive after the process. 120 film storage fits 3 frames per strip anyway so it's not hat big of a deal as with 35mm stuff. I was also considering storing the cut out negatives in slide holders.</p>

<p>Also alternatively to mylar I was thinking of just using clear plexi glass - it just seems easier to press down on it to get the film perfectly flat compared to mylar.<br>

I would love to just gram Kami or something other of the sort but I found no supplier in the EU that would offer sensible prices. I'd rather use a DIY mounting approach and then shell out for PEC12 or some other film cleaner to clean it up since I've seen many people complaining that the commercial solutions often leave reside (for this or other reason) and it has to be cleaned anyway.</p>

<p>Mylar or Acetate both work equally as well. Plexiglass would be too thick to become optically invisible and will fog up when the surface becomes blemished with scratches / micro scratches.<br>

<br>

Naptha is more of a generic term and there are many different forms of it. Kerosene is in the same boat. What you need is the lamp formulation (more wax) with the sulphur removed (orderless).<br>

<br>

All liquids will produce vapor / fumes. Unless you put this stuff in a baggie and inhale, you should be quite safe. I have been wet-mounting for over 5 years with this stuff and not found any problems. My fixer or stop-bath are probably more of a danger.<br>

<br>

You can use the lamp oil to remove the baby oil from your negs... :)<br>

<br>

</p>

<p>I might actually try the mylar then (but I am still worried about it having it's own texture at the magnification levels I go into), if I can get it in a physical shop in my area, I would rather avoid ordering it from afar and then realising I've been sent yet another optical layer that has it's own texture. I have a few days to meditate on the whole thing as I am waiting for a new light source to arrive. Plexiglass was surprisingly good material to work with though. I've made my "carrier plate" with it - just a couple of minutes with a cheap saw blade intended for cutting metal. </p>

<p>If I may share - I bought these sort of large soft rubber pads (intended for cutting to size and gluing under furniture legs) and those seem to not scratch the film so I've been using that to flatten the film and move the mounting liquid around to get the bubbles out. I also bought a few small pressure rollers but those where all bad for the job. Some of the sources recommend a microfibre cloth but the pads seem to be more delicate on the film as even when bent they always form a round surface on the edge. I form the shape according to how I want to move the fluid and then press down and avoid dragging anything across the film.</p>

<p>Well, you are not scanning the glass. The glass side is above your neg. The acetate or mylar is the only optical material between your scanner and your film. That's why you use the fluid. It bonds the glass, film and mylar as one transparent item. That's why it works so well and it is nothing new. Scientists have been doing it for centuries with their microscope slides. Your only evil at this point will be to put your mount in the correct focal plane.</p>

<p>Below is my actual scanning tray I use on a daily basis. Ignore the bubbles, as I actually scanned that item yesterday. The fluid does dry on it's own. </p>

<p><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3873/14799137080_07a7de4deb_d.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>I have a betterscanning.com tray, but this is the one I actually use. On the top is a popsicle stick and office paper clips to hold down the acetate on the 8x10 clip frame glass, in a one-sided flap configuration. Simple.</p>

<p>1) open flap<br>

2) Spray glass<br>

3) place film on glass, emulsion side against the glass.<br>

4) spray the film top surface<br>

5) let the acetate flap close<br>

6) with a cheap micro fibre cloth, gently wipe the excess fluid off and press gently to squeeze the bubbles away from the film. If you still get bubbles, you need to use more fluid. Curly film can be a problem. Flatten it first.</p>

<p>7) Place on scanner bed, acetate side towards scanner bed.</p>

<p>In the picture there are pieces of cardboard (feet) to raise the mount up off the scanner bed, for better focus. Everyone's scanner will be different.</p>

<p>I scan quite a bit and a piece of acetate can last a long time. It's only when you damage the surface that you need to change it. My fluid (kerosene based) does nothing to it.</p>

<p>I made this mount first, then bought the better scanning unit. There is nothing wrong with the better scanning tray except I have to use tape, which can be a PITA to keep clean. Sometimes simple is better.</p>

<p>Nothing really touches your film, other than the mount glass and acetate. There is no need for anything other than a micro fibre cloth. You only touch the acetate with it.</p>

<p>And again, don't buy mylar unless you can get some local. It does not have magic qualities. Acetate works fine. Go to any art store and buy a couple of 8x10 sheets of clear acetate (under a dollar here). Unless you are doing 4x5s or larger, each sheet can be cut into two. Those sheets will last you quite some time.</p>

<p>This was one of the shots on that tray.....</p>

<p><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5554/14957140081_2cab0a4086_z_d.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>I am actually "scanning" with a dslr Peter so for me it would go light source > plate > film > lens > bellows > dslr.<br>

If I can get the film to just stay there nice and flat thanks to gravity without the acetate/mylar layer then my logic is why add yet another layer. I will try to grab some acetate/mylar but will experiment both ways just in case it's not necessary <br>

One of the problems I am facing is that I am no longer located in the UK and local shops don't really have the true and tested ways the english speaking internet world is enjoying or they sell it under a different name - i've been explaining what I am trying to do to clueless clerks for a few days now.</p>

<p>For instance I found out that I may have a chance to grab a kerosane type liquid (called rectified naptha) in the form of a homeopathic medicine intended for drinking (can you believe it!?). I've been given an address for a local homeopathic pharmacy so I am making a tin foil hat as we speak before I brave it tomorrow.</p>

<p>The nasty naptha I bought in the first place is considered to be lamp fuel over here so I can't ask for that and get the right stuff either. There are literary no hardware shops left where I live right now, only the big soulless ones where it takes 3 hours to find someone to help you out and all they carry is cheapo crap sold at a large markup.</p>

<p>I've ordered an affordable 1L of film cleaning fluid just in case whatever I manage to find leaves reside ofter use.</p>

<p>Price is a big deal - the cleaning fluid I think is about 5quid/9dollars for 1L but say 110ml of PEC12 is more like 30 quid on ebay UK + expensive shipping. The same holds true for popular mounting fluids and other accessories so DIY is almost a must for me.</p>

<p>Even before starting this thread I scoured almost everything google would give me on the subject. I am dealing with a number of issues that where not mentioned by others trying to do a similar thing so that is why I am a bit reticent on some of these methods, at least until I figure out what is causing the problem. Light diffraction is an issue for instance - I have to do a lot of testing before I am convinced that the mylar would not cause a decrease in sharpness. If it has any visible texture at high magnifications then it will be impossible for me to focus on the film grain instead of that texture (i've already had that issue with the light table surface).</p>

<p>Hi peter, do you mean the enlarger mask or the enlarger desktop that holds the enlarger head itself? Maybe the holder that goes into the enlarger itself?</p>

<p>The mask is just an adjustable frame, at least those I used in school where so I think just making my own frame is better at the moment. The holder that goes into the head is not very precise and the ones I've seen at best feature an AN glass insert.<br>

If you mean the desk/rail combination for mounting an enlarger head - I did consider this in order to avoid having both "planes" oscillating separately and some report to do it that way with good success however the holder itself has to go on something, legs or another table. Since I have a very good wooden tripod if I can solve the problem of a sturdy table I don't need to put the enlarger thingie on top, just the light table directly - it's really the light table mounting that is giving me 99% of the oscillations. I've just put together a DIY table real fast to fit nicely beside my tripod for the experimentation so I will replace it with something better and put it on more stable flooring later in the process.</p>

<p>As a side note I found out that AN glass can be acquired as an insert for the enlarger holders that go into the enlarger heads. A 100mmx70mm piece was available for about 17 quid including a metal 6x6 mask to go with it (free postage in my area too). Dedicated AN glass sites offered similar sizes for twenty something pounds (+expensive postage) without the metal mask. I am dedicated to wet mounting at this point but might fall back on using that if it all goes south.</p>

<p>So yeah I did consider the above enlarger related solutions Peter, I even considered using an enlarger inverted as a continuous light source instead of the light table. I might visit one of the darkrooms I used to have access to at one point and just experiment. At the moment I really am short on tools and bits and bobs to try such things as I don't have a darkroom setup - it was always someone else's back in my 35mm days.</p>