Weird experince with Nikon rep

I was at B&H recently and went to the Nikon kiosk to visit and chat with Gerry R, the Nikon rep. When in NYC I try to visit Gerry and talk all things Nikon.

Unfortunately, Gerry was not there. I was there on his day off, so I started talking to the replacement Nikon rep.

 

He was friendly enough, but I was very surprised by what he was saying. I told him I was thinking about trading in my d810 and, grinning, I said what I was really interested in was the "Z 8, though the Z 7ii was interesting esp with the reports of the new firmware upgrade." There was a display Z6 with the battery pack and I could see that that size factor---similar to a Z9 in footprint, was just too big. I know the Z 8 does not yet exist. I know it may never exist, however the rumor mill has in the Z8 a really attractive package, but his response really surprised me, especially by someone who was supposed to be representing Nikon, the face of Nikon at B&H. At the very least it is certainly "chat-worthy" with a customer.

 

Emphatically he told me, " It doesn't exist, it is nowhere, it doesn't exist, it is vapor and I have no idea if it will ever exist. We never know what Nikon is doing. One day things show up. "

He made me sorry I even approached the subject, almost foolish for doing so. He then continued on, as I was playing with the Z 7ii, saying that "Nikon will not make it if the Z 9 isn't successful, [that] Nikon is betting the farm on the Z 9." He said that a few times. I pointed out that pre-orders are through the roof (2000+ at B&H; 1000+ at Adorama--their numbers) and the reviews of the Z 9 are universally glowing. Didn't matter.

He went on to say that "Sony is where it's at right now." And "You know what Sony has? Sony has billions [of dollars], Canon has millions, you know what Nikon has? Maybe thousands." He was so down on Nikon and its future that in effect he was making business for Sony and Canon, both on the quality and liquidity of the companies and their technology. Here I was, a customer, standing there with a 7 year old camera, a confirmed Nikon user, suggesting I could trade (today) for a Z 7ii, and he was bad mouthing Nikon to the extent that anyone hearing him would conclude that it would be foolish to buy Nikon. I was truly surprised.

I thanked him and then went over to the Sony Kiosk--he talked me into it, and played with a A7 rIV. I liked the feel of the body and the reps were helpful, but having had to deal with the awful menu structure of my Sony RX100ii, I knew I couldn't live with that menu structure. I decided I would just keep my trusty d810 for now.

I'm not really sure why I'm reporting this except maybe to vent, but man, Nikon! With friends like this who needs enemies.

Edited December 22, 2021 by John Di Leo

Perhaps instead of schmoozing you he was just being brutally honest, and was tired of speculation on a product which doesn't exist. Who knows.

Disgruntled employee. Hopefully, someone from Nikon with authority will see this.

Maybe not even a Nikon rep, just somebody filling in. FWIW, when I was in a real actual brick and mortar shop buying a new lens for my Z6, I was listening to the guy behind the counter trying to make a sale to a gent that had walked in. He was definitely steering him towards full frame, but he talked up every brand in the case except Nikon. He didn't really say anything bad, he just ignored them completely. Made me wonder what the profit margins are between brands. I guess not everybody's a fan.

Sounds like this guy has an offer from Sony and is about the quit his job with Nikon. :rolleyes:

"Nikon rep" makes it sound like he is a Nikon employee - which I very much doubt. He's probably "just" one of the B&H employees attending the Nikon counter (and apparently not the usual guy but a (temporary) replacement. One thing though is certain; he screwed up a potential sale and should possibly be looking for another job.

Perhaps he was on his way to someplace new?

I have collected a few images of what seem to be "exit lines":rolleyes:

I don't think he said bad things about Nikon. He didn't say the Z9 was bad or any of the Nikon was bad camera. He said Nikon run out of money and perhaps Nikon does.

I do think Nikon has less money than Sony and Canon. I do also think Nikon bet the farms on the Z9. The Z9 came close to the A1 and I think surpass the R3 at lower price than both. If the Z9 is a failure I think Nikon would be in a bad shape.

Maybe he's normally at the Canon or Sony tables but was filling in for the Nikon guy. So his spiel is not practiced for Nikon.

 

In any case, do you want a salesman to be equal in his recommendations? Or would you prefer he gives his best expertise and opinion on what's best? After all, you are his customer, not Nikon. He represents B&H and you, not any particular manufacturer. Finally, if Nikon doesn't like B&H, they can take their business elsewhere. ;)

I do think Nikon has less money than Sony and Canon. I do also think Nikon bet the farms on the Z9. The Z9 came close to the A1 and I think surpass the R3 at lower price than both. If the Z9 is a failure I think Nikon would be in a bad shape.

Nikon might have less money than B&H. ;)

Since the store doesn't have the product asked about (Z8) it is logical that they would suggest something they do have. If the user can be persuaded to purchase a whole system then all the better for the salesperson and store. ;)

 

The Z9 seems to be doing very well with early customers very happy with it and apparently lots of preorders. I am sure its technology will find its way to smaller and less expensive models soon enough. However, in the current situation with shortages in components and manufacturing, it makes sense for Nikon to prioritise the more expensive models (Z9) if they can't at the moment dramatically increase volume of manufacturing due to disruptions caused by the pandemic.

He was being financially truthful regarding Sony and Canon, both of which are immense corporations producing numerous digital, electronic, communication, and for Sony various television products. Nikon is only an optical products company, a small division of a a huge Japanese corporate holding company. Its financial resources are finite and modest. Nikon closed its Sendai assembly plant and now only makes cameras in Thailand because it costs less there. The worldwide camera market has shrunken, with millions now taking pictures with their smart phones. No one knows if the limited camera market can support Nikon, Canon, etc.

The Sendai factory isn't closed but they simply don't assemble cameras any more; they make manufacturing tools and parts to be assembled elsewhere. Also the Sendai factory will be used as "a start-up factory for new business endeavors, with an emphasis on production technology and mobility."

 

In my opinion it's surprising that they didn't move the manufacturing fully away from this area after the earthquake and tsunami in 2011.

 

IMO Nikon's troubles are probably behind them for the most part as they now have a processor and sensor that can handle the needs of subject-recognition and autofocus tracking in mirrorless at a high level and to many people's surprise seems to also work very well with adapted lenses (AF-S, of course) . I think the main reason for them losing market share was customer uncertainty about Nikon's competitiveness in mirrorless autofocus as well as about whether F-mount lenses could be effectively utilized or if they would be a handicap. Now they simply need to produce some of that performance in more affordable camera bodies that more people can enjoy. Once the technology has been developed it should be straightforward to mass produce it (pandemic permitting, of course), or at least Nikon has a lot of experience with how to do that.

 

The market for enthusiast / pro cameras is about the same size it has been for the past ten years; it's just the consumer products (point and shoot cameras and entry-level ILC)s where there is huge decline. I remember when Nikon was doing very well financially, growing every year by double digit percentages, but the products they put out were various 18-200 zooms and coolpix cameras in dozens of different colour and size and shape variants with little improvement in the capabilities, and only a small number of products for the higher-end market (this was in the 1st decade of the milennium). In the past years they've put out a lot of products for enthusiast and professional use and I've been very happy with that. I guess when Nikon is doing well financially they typically don't make what I want to buy and when they're in a financially tight spot then they put out the most fantastic products.

Edited January 3, 2022 by ilkka_nissila

"Nikon rep" makes it sound like he is a Nikon employee - which I very much doubt. He's probably "just" one of the B&H employees attending the Nikon counter (and apparently not the usual guy but a (temporary) replacement. One thing though is certain; he screwed up a potential sale and should possibly be looking for another job.

Yep.

He was wearing a Nikon badge, but I chatted with B&H and was told that they are B&H employees, not Nikon, Canon, Sony employees.

The regular rep, Gerry R, he was definitely a pro Nikon guy and very personable. I had subjective questions re d810 vs Z, and looked forward to picking his brain.

The substitute guy wasn't quite "rude" to me at all, and maybe was just being brutally honest, with the emphasis on "brutal," but he was doing more to sell a Sony than a Nikon. He was UNinformative about Nikon except for the doom and gloom prospects for the company if the z9 fails.

 

I didn't want to be schmoozed, and I did want honesty, and a conversation.

I am a long time customer of B&H, love going to the store, the sales people are knowledgeable and cut to the chase. I can handle that and I appreciate the efficiency of it.

Since the store doesn't have the product asked about (Z8) it is logical that they would suggest something they do have. If the user can be persuaded to purchase a whole system then all the better for the salesperson and store. ;)

He wasn't "selling" anything, but was just bashing Nikon it seemed. Maybe he didn't see it that way, but that's the way it sounded to me. He made my decision to stick with the d810 for the time being very easy.

I really don't want to deal with the Sony menu system for the years to come, and I really don't want to swap out my glass for the Canon or Sony versions of them.