Wedding Photographer Professional?

I think I asked a question similar to this before but while reading some recent

posts here this question came to my mind about how easy it is to call yourself

a "wedding photographer". A lot of beginners who do not know about the very

basic things are doing it - or maybe they just all are on this forum :-) I

went to school for photography (recently graduated) and have assisted numerous

professional photographers on commercial shoots over the years. I am now just

starting out in weddings, but I feel I have a very solid grasp of all the

technical things... except I am still catching up with digital, but I shoot

film so that's okay for now. Anyway, it seems that weddings (maybe portraits)

is the only real branch of photography where this happens (where people think

they can just learn photography "on the job"). Is it just me who sees it this

way, or is wedding photography full of "hacks"? I don't want to be cruel, I

just think it is strange. I suppose there are mnay things that make shooting

weddings very easy, but it is still supposed to be "professional" photography

(I assume), which means that the person should really have good knowledge of

all the basic rules of composition, exposure, lighting, color, equipment,

etc... It's not rocket science! it just takes some time and experience and you

don't really have to have "formal" training I guess (but I do think it helps a

lot). I know we all are always evolving and learning new stuff, but there is a

threshold that I think you need to meet before taking money for jobs and

calling yourself a "professional"... right? -- sorry for the long post.

The catch is that the wedding market is filled with customers who don't care about your qualifications or abilities, they just want the lowest cost and a CD with all their images on it so that they can go have copies made at Walmart.

 

Photography isn't like medicine. There's no bar to entry. If someone pays you to take photographs, you're a "professional photographer."

 

What you're basically complaining about is that there are those competing with you who are succeeding in capturing some part of the market.

 

Welcome to business!

 

Everyone is trying to do more with less. Some customers want to shop at Nordstrom's, and some want to shop at Target. Both generally get what they pay for.

Susan,

 

I agree with you 100%. Because of the advent of automatic digital cameras anyone can call themselfs a professional photographer without any real knowledge of photography.

 

We all had to start somewhere but when I started doing weddings (the late 60's) I knew how to make a proper exposure, how to recognise different lighting situations and correct for them. In fact we didn't have electronic flashes wheh I did my 1st weddings, I used #25 flashbulbs and set my f stop according to distance, and I think the exposures were better than with todays TTL jobs.

 

Anyway, my point is there should be a certain amount of photographic knowledge before you can call yourself a professional photographer. Too many customers are being shortchanged by some of the people out there and it is diminishing the value of our profession.

 

Jim Marby

 

pictureperfectstudio.biz

There are two different things going on, here.

 

First, the actual finished work speaks for itself. Certainly some audiences can't differentiate between professional work and snapshots (or, they can't articulate what they're seeing). For those who don't want or can't appreciate professional work, this is all moot, and the shots by Uncle Bob (apologies to all the pros named 'Bob' out there!) or the $399-I'm-just-getting-started-here's-the-JPGs-on-a-CD types are adequate. This is just as true of other arenas, I might add - other types of photograhy (product shots, interiors, etc) AND other entire business areas... housepainting, hair styling, web site design, whatever. The finished product is the finished product, and it either will or won't be worth the price.

 

But the OTHER thing is the nature of your interaction with the person in question. Did the self-proclaimed $399 pro event photographer show up late, with one camera body, in the wrong clothes, and have no familiarity with the social customs that are part of the work? Or, did she actually carry on in just the way you'd expect? Professional is as professional does and delivers, I think.

 

So, the threshold(s) to me are: act like a pro and produce pro work, and you're most of what you need to be. But (and I speak from grudging self knowledge), there's more to it. Are you financially stable enough to be where and when you're supposed to be for an event months from now, carrying good equipment and with a healthy web presence that lets your clients see your work? Stuff like that speaks to your staying power and other qualities of good sense/discipline. I know of some very talented people that never fail to impress with their work and their bearing... but which shouldn't be trusted with your deposit check because they're flaky in other ways, or are living very turbulent life. For that matter, there are plenty of long-time professionals in every pursuit descend back OUT of professionalism for all sorts of reasons. I think this all comes down to being able to point prospects at good recent references.

Yes, wedding photography is a business that anyone with a camera can enter, and there are no standards of proficiency. Strange but true.

Jim - Please no "signature" website closings on threads.. ;-)

 

Meanwhile - just a caution to all who contribute on this thread....

 

No newbie bashing.

 

It is right and good to strongly suggest that newcomers assist a pro and learn as much as they can about photography before charging money to clients. It is not ok to rip them apart or call them names or be rude as has happened on a recent thread.

 

Many people here began their baby steps into becoming a wedding photographer here on this site and are now very successful. Some of them even asked "stupid" questions. We all have to start somewhere. I was a part of the PN community before it has the form that Photo.net has now. It was before you could load images and most of the info was via email in the FD forum. I asked some pretty stupid questions many many years ago and I'm grateful for the help I was given which was always constructive and gracious.

 

Please keep the tone constructive on this thread.

 

Anotherwords... How can we help these newcomers who are going in over their heads before they get burned in a lawsuit or give wedding photography a bad name.

 

We can help them not to dimish the value of our profession by providing an environment where they are not afraid to ask for advice and help. Then - we help them with as many resources and sound helpful feedback and info as we can. That is a step in the right direction.

yeah, I'm not "complaining". I'm just curious if ohters see this the same way. I know I can create better images than a lot of what I see posted here and those clients who cannot tell the difference I probably wouldn't want anyway. So I am not worried about "competition" I guess. Also I think I am doing well just starting now because I have a good portfolio of other non-wedding work (portrait/documentary) that shows what I can do and the weddings I have scheduled are based on that work. I guess it is true that a lot of wedding couples (and maybe some "photographers") cannot tell good photography from bad. That is unfortunate... but oh well :-)

Hi Mary! Those are great suggestions. You are doing a great job with this forum!

You could argue this subject for years with no clear cut solution. You've all made very good points. I know people with years of experience who still can't capture a great shot, and I know some people who barely know how to operate a camera but have an eye for great shots.

 

It all boils down to how well they can sell themselves. Some customers are going to get burned by the guy who isn't very good at photography, but made them believe he was. Others are going to get a great deal from someone who does great work but doesn't know how much to charge or how to market themselves.

 

It's something that you can't really prevent against. You just have to do the best you can and the truth will eventually prevail. This is a heavily referral based industry. Those who put the work into becoming a professional will prosper, those who just want to make quick money will be unemployed pretty fast.

I think you said it perfectly, Steve. :)

Steve Vesci is right. It's a marketing issue, not necessarily an issue of talent, experience, and equipment. If you market yourself in any business appropriately, and you get repeat or new business, I'd say you're a pro [provided you're structured legally, have appropriate insurance to protect you and others, etc].

 

I just looked at a friend's wedding pics, from an established pro, and was disappointed. Yet I've seen second-shooters who I have amazing quality, artistry, and professionalism.

 

An aside: My father works part-time at a funeral home. --That's a changing industry. The family that owns it wants to market and manage it like it's 1982. The volume and average cost of their funerals keeps sinking through the floor. They won't budge in their approach, and they're literally paying for it.

 

The photographers for whom I've worked that are successful are keenly aware of trends, seek help from others when needed, further their education, network with other progressive thinkers, and never miss a marketing opportunity.

 

In other words, they're successful business owners who happen to be artists. The second shooters with great images are great artists who get paid by the hour.

I think it is unfair to compare 'wedding' photography to 'commercial' photography. I know a photographer who does very good (and successful) commercial work. He spends hours setting up and arranging for the 'perfect' shot. He won't do weddings, mainly because he knows he won't be able to setup and arrange for each shot. An example of a great professional photographer who won't ever make it in weddings.

 

As far as people with limited experience or training calling themselves professional wedding photographers... I say go for it. Someone else mentioned studying and never getting 'it', other pick up a point and shoot for the first time and have amazing images. On top of that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There have been plenty of discussions here where photographer A says a picture is awful and photographer B loves it.

 

Some people don't have a lot of money and they shouldn't suffer or be held hostage by an industry that tries to exclude 'low end' photographers. Other people may only have a wedding photographer because it is what you are suppose to do at wedding, not because they really care about the images.

 

You are right 'Is isn't rocket science' so stop acting like it is, nor is it surgery (someone else likes that analogy).

 

Focus on your photography and your business, and stop worrying about everyone else. People are still getting married, divorced, and re-married - plenty of business for everyone.

I wonder if a lot of this isn't the product of both digital automation AND prolific internet

chatter? Forums like this are lightening rods for such inquiries aren't they?

 

Is there a hue and cry because in many instances digital automation has leveled the

playing field to a degree, and to stand out you REALLY need to have a special eye ... which

many think they have, but clients really can't see?

 

Has the gap of "craftsmanship" that once existed narrowed exponentially?

 

In truth, beyond basics, I think maybe it has. We have a whole litany of what we think are

needed skills, traditions, sets of criteria, gear requirements and so on ... and measure

others by these rules. We believe them to be truths, but are they? Beyond basic

fundimentals, are they a measure of that "eye"?

 

I think it is up to us to set the standards for ourselves, and up to the marketplace to

eliminate those who set the wrong standards.

 

We hear from a lot of beginners, yet do we know whether they all went on and honed their

talents with less budget sensitive clients?

 

I think marketplace eventually provided the answer.

The 'Special Eye'

 

If I have a special eye and other photographers agree, but my client do not agree, then do I have a special eye? Yes, but it doesn't matter because I won't have clients for long.

 

If I don't think I have a special eye and photographers disagree, and my clients disagree, then do I have a special eye? Yes, but I won't be in business because I don't believe in myself.

 

If I think I have a special eye and photographers disagree, and my clients disagree, then do I have a special eye? Yes, I won't have clients, or post on photo.net, but I will believe in myself.

 

Everyone is a photographer, but we all have different tastes and styles. Believe in yourself, and if you can make money as a photographer then keep on rockin'.

Unfortunately, other than formal study, and then apprenticing with a master. There is no other way to learn wedding photography properly. You have to have a mentor critique your work every week to suit their style. Then if you are good, and you learn, you can then seek out your own style.

No other way? Good thing no one told me that.

So if there's no other way, then how do you explain the ones who go out there start at the bottom and work their a$$ off until one day they're a feature article in Rangefinder and their work is amazing?? Is it just pure luck?? I don't think so.

I was a newspaper stringer. I was asked to shoot a wedding at the last minute because the original photographer cancelled. I had good equipment including Medium Format and fairly good technical knowledge. I had never done a wedding. I gave the bride and groom a very good price. I am the most unlikely wedding photographer you could imagine. I am quite senior and I had just retired for the second time and was working for the newspaper because they had seen and liked some of my amateur pictures. I told the bride it was my first wedding. I did not charge her much. She and her husband photographed very well. She had a nice dress. I posted 11x14s in the newspaper office of the wedding and immediately got another wedding. I put the B&G on my brochure. To make a long story short, I developed a very active wedding business doing spring, summer and fall weddings and taking winters off to travel. I learned a lot very rapidly, however, because of my previous work experience my people skills worked very well with wedding clients. I learned some tough lessons early on about contracts and appropriate business pratices. I finally closed the business after seven years because I was working too hard and was supposed to be retired. It had expanded to PR work, other events like golf and large parties, and I kept up with the Newpaper as a source of income. When I disbanded,I was actually turning away weddings generated through membership in the Chamber, word of mouth, and local business referrals. My point is that you have to start somewhere. I have never have been afraid of making mistakes and I learned a lot in my first weddings. My customers were satisfied and I learned and raised my prices as I went along. I started mostly with small weddings. There were a number of customers who could only afford a small wedding and were happy to just have a photographer of any kind. I had learned some skills from the newspaper like posing groups rapidly, shooting rapidly, shooting a lot of pictures, filling the frame and capturing human reactions. Starting with small weddings allowed me to establish relationships with the customers which greatly helped with acceptance of the final product. My attitude at any wedding has been to be unobtrusive and neither dominate nor expand a comfortable schedule. I captured a fairly large segment of the local market. I delivered proofs and one enlargement usually in a week. I empathise with photographers just starting out. Been there, done that, and you can be successful. Try to cover yourself with a lot of pictures. Lord knows I have made some mistakes like manually setting the wrong exposure on MF and losing a couple of rolls of film, dropping my 70-200 2.8L on a cement sidewalk, stepping on a moving ten foot bridal train, having my tripod and camera tip over into the mud etc. etc. I covered myself with a lot of pictures and have asked a very nice bride for a group reshoot when I lost film. My pre-wedding understandings help greatly to establish comfort between me and the wedding party. I wound up doing large weddings. I did one wedding where there were no guests and my wife was the witness while I photographed. This was done on a seaside cliff outside an inn and the bride wore a beautiful wedding dress. The pictures were nice with the sea in the background. They were nice people. I think Mary the moderator is right this is a place to encourage and help those just starting out. Some of the stuff on another thread was a little disturbing. As I said you have to start somewhere.

my only answer to you is the key to become a successful wedding photographer is good marketing, not THE BEST PHOTOGRAPHER. You don't have to be the best photographer to be successful in wedding photography.

 

Example, gary fong and his toys. Everyone own one of his toys. Y?

today's cameras and flashes, ( digital or film), can take a far better and accurate exposure than ever before, on auto. I just thought i'd throw that in ..

Wedding photography is no different than many other industries in a capital market. Wedding photography happens to have a low barrier to entry because the equipment is cheap (you can start for less than $3,000) and there are plenty of broke young college students getting married who don't care that you don't know what you are doing.

 

A professional photographer is one who does photography as an occupation or for gain. The market (happy customers or mad customers and other factors) will determine who is able to make a gain (create value) while doing wedding photography. Human capital does matter (your knowledge/skill in photography) but it does not matter where you acquired that capital. I have seen several photographers with no formal education far outdo photographers with formal training. Again, one isn't better than the other, the question is what skills/knowledge do you posses and what value does the free market place on those skills or that knowledge?

 

The only way to raise the barrier to entry into "professional photography" is for all of the professional photographers to band together and lobby for the government to artificially raiser the barrier set in place by the market through licensure. Personally, I think that would be a little bit much. Most licensure is not for the safety of the consumer (with some exceptions) but more to protect those already in the market from competition. I believe that such interference to limit competition is a bad thing for everyone.

 

On a personal note, I have shot about 50 weddings (about 10 per year) but do not call myself a professional photographer. Every bride looks at tons of my work and if they feel that my photography is good enough they are welcome to use my services. I started shooting weddings because the pro photographer for a wedding was in a car accident on the way to the wedding and they (the bride and groom) needed someone to fill in. Wedding photography helped put me through college and whenever I need a little spending money I can always go out and shoot a couple weddings.

I think Gary Fong is the perfect example of "build it and they will come." Talk about being a marketing guru...

When my photography income makes up 25% of my total income, then I will consider myself a professional and so will a lot of the ameteur contests that I enter.

Dick Arnold made some good points about building a business, like getting out there and becoming known in the community, joining the chamber of commerce, networking with everybody, having good people skills, and not being afraid to use film cameras in 2007, but I suspect that a lot of his success is that he's not acting hungry. He doesn't need the business and probably picks his clients with care. No hard sell!

Mary,

 

Sorry about the signature line in my last posting - I forgot.

 

I don't know if the reprimand about newbie bashing was directed to me but if it was I apologize to any newbie I may have offended but I truly don't believe that my stating that unqualified people are offering them selfs as professionals is bashing in an way. It's a fact.

 

 

Jim Marby