War of "Words / No Words"

I know this will start something, and I am not trolling...so here

goes<p>

The majority of pix shown here are snapshots or just junk. I can and

do appreciate everyone being at different skill levels, but in the

past few months, the shots have bee terrible and not worth the free

storage space they are given.<p>

I do think some of the regulars here are quite good ( ie..Travis, the

guy who shoots the non-AA 90mm Summi wide open in color, and others

that escape me right now ) and it do illustrate "Leica" photography,

but the rest, PU !!<p>

 

I am formeost a camera collector, secondly a die hard amateur photog

who someday hopes to make a great photograph. When I mean great, I

mean that non-photographer strangers take a look at my photo and say

WOW ! I have yet to reach that goal after approx 12 years. I do and

can take photos better than the average Joe, but still my hit to miss

ratio is about 1 to 20 on very good pictures and Zero to THOUSANDS on

great photos<p>

 

My point ? This forum is about Leica Photography. If you own or

aspire to own Leica, you should be seletive in what you post - else

it doesnt help the rest of us. I am notsyaing a beginner cant own or

use Leica - but they shouldnt post the first picture ever taken

here...<p>

 

PS - I cant stand those posts of old leica pix taken in the 60's

and 70's...BORING....the fact that they havent stood the test of time

says everything <p>

Maybe I'm just being cranky.....but I do aspire for us all to improve

with Leica...<p>

Dan

<a href="http://www.antiquecameras.net">Antique & Classic Cameras</a>

please forgive my spelling errors - forgot to run my spell-check !

(a) you are right<br>

(b) you won't improve the level by posting appeals<br> It's the majority, the crowd and their level of understanding photography that determines it.

snapshots or just junk

 

but I do aspire for us all to improve with Leica

 

 

No wonder so many folk are anti- Leica when they read-toss pot posts like this. I wonder if this person has ever taken a photo? Lets have a look.

Oooooh....let the games begin... ;>)

Allen - my wife will tell you how many thousands and thousands of dollars have been spent on my rolls of pictures. I am being honest. If you think the images posted here are anything special, I question your abilities to understand/critique ART. With all due respect<p>

 

Dan

Look <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005KXO">HERE AT THIS POST</a><p>

 

this guy used a $ 3000 camera/lens combo to take that pic ? Come on - look in the same post with what I did with a $ 12 disposable

Dan, you are what i call a 'Tommy Knocker'Always knocking others work.

 

Well, post some photo's...show us the way.

 

With all due respect 'old chap'.<div></div>

I am glad you have goals for your photography. Our failure to meet your goals is hardly proof that our efforts lack the rigor that you apply to your efforts or that we lack any goals of our own. But then your goals are yours and ours are ours. I appreciate that you have aspirations "for us all to improve with Leica," but frankly, piss off.

<div></div>

Well, i used a very expensive lense to take this photo. Go figure.<div></div>

Dan

 

I think you have made a fair point. Just because a picture is taken with a Leica doesn't make it a good image....... and I do sometimes think that people should be a bit more critical of their own work. Having said that you are a braver person than I am, to have mentioned it first!

 

Martin

Who are you to say we don't know how to critique art? Do you know any of us? I personally have worked in the creative arts for the last 20+ years of my life first as an artist and then as an academic. The post that you use as an example shows that several people recognized that this poster was perhaps inexperienced and at least an unknown as far as talent and confidence. They didn't rip him a new one. They offered him decent quality advice that if he takes on his next shot will begin his process of improvement. What value does telling someone they suck have if they stop creating work altogether? Constructive criticism is exactly that. Go count your cameras.

Frankly, I'm amazed by the quality of the no words posts in the Leica forum ... the most interesting part of the site in my opinion.

Just because a picture is taken with a Leica doesn't make it a good image

 

Glad you said that. Silly me, i thought all photos taken with a Leica were great. Sorry, the sun does not shine for me.

Someone once wrote a fairytale that ended with these words:

 

�But he has nothing on at all,� said a little child at last. �Good heavens! listen to the voice of an innocent child,� said the father, and one whispered to the other what the child had said. �But he has nothing on at all,� cried at last the whole people. That made a deep impression upon the emperor, for it seemed to him that they were right; but he thought to himself, �Now I must bear up to the end.� And the chamberlains walked with still greater dignity, as if they carried the train which did not exist.

 

Hmmm.

I am sorry most of you offended...keep taking your cliche photos with your very expensive cameras and pat yourselves on the back. Maybe that helps you sleep at night<p>

Dan--

 

I agree wholeheartedly. These "no words" threads contain mostly photos which range from boring to abysmal, and some other photo-centered threads (such as requests for critique) contain similarly disappointing work. The most amazing are those posts containing photos which are technically inept (underexposure seems the most common problem).

<p>While some folks may be posting under the assumption that any picture taken with such expensive equipment must be good, I think the problem is deeper. I think many people simply (1) are unable to recognize what makes photos work and/or (2) are unable to critically examine their own work. Until people actually spend more time looking at photos in museums, galleries, and books, they'll have little idea what constitutes "good." I think some are too busy "wanking & fondling" for that, unfortunately. Meantime, you've got the "blind leading the blind" -- people post lousy photos, other people give them pats on the back ("nice shot!"), and without honest, qualified critique, no one realizes that they can progress, much less how to do it. <p>In the past, I've posted questions and suggestions about self-editing, but these threads have not gone far. It's unfortunate that some people take editing so lightly since, in a medium like photography, in which one can make many pictures in a short time, editing is a crucial step in creating an impact.

Allen - keep you blinders on and stay with the crowd...be common...dont try to expand or grow beyond your comfort zone....BTW, that photo of the horsemen...just another trashy snapshot - WHERE'S THE ART ? We can all paint by numbers

The problem is not the perceived "quality" of a photograph. The problem is that too many people (like yourself) try to put things into boxes. Box A: Good photography. Box B: Medium quality. Box C: Terrible photography. Once you really understand this, you'll have a much more productive time appreciating art and people. When you dislike a photograph that I happen to like, is the photo still a bad photograph? If so, or if not, what box would you place it into?

Again, like most of you 'Tommy Knockers' i challenge you to show us the way. Or shut the f up.<div></div>

Yeah yeah. You're sweet. Really.

I can tell you are frustrated Allen - having to resort to foul language...I actually think you are an above average picture maker - not great but well above average....I just think you miss my point..Its ok..

When I want to look at good photos, I look at books and periodicals (Lenswork is my

favorite) and go to exhibits (Edward Weston at the Huntington in Pasadena, hopefully

this weekend). When I want to read gossip about cameras, I read this forum. I don't

read this forum for examples of great photos (although I sometimes encounter one

by chance). Different

goals, different expecations. Sometimes I feel bad reading camera gossip instead of

looking at great photos to improve my photography, but that's my vice.

 

(And I think a lot of people on photo.net would look at many-- not all, but many-- of

the photos posted here, and say, "What's the big deal with Leica?")

 

Dave

Tony's post (above) seems dangerously close to arguing that there's no such thing as a "bad" photograph (akin to post-modern arguments that there are no absolute truths, etc.). That implies that there are also no "good" photographs, and if that's the case, why bother snapping pics? And how can we have ANY intelligent discussion about photos (or any art, for that matter) if there are no commonly-agreed upon criteria?