Walmart no longer returns negatives !!!

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by david_m, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Went to Walmart to get a film developed.
    Everything has changed (and this is fairly recent).
    Their deposit envelope now has only one option: develop and print and get a CD and NO NEGATIVES.
    Gone is the regular or premium choice. Gone is the 4" or 5" choice. Gone is the CD or no-CD choice.
    Is everyone doing this now? Are they trying to freeze film photographers out?
    I won't be sending any more film their way but what is the alternative?
    Not getting negatives defeats the whole purpose of using film since the images on the CDs are usually poor quality.
     
  2. It's not a service without returning your negative.
     
  3. Some MBA came up with this lame idea. I bet they don't ship the CD back from the central lab, but instead send the data to the store electronically, and burn the CD-R there. Saves those annoying shipping costs. Gotta "roll back those prices"!
    Oh, the price rollback lowers the quality of the product or service? Yeah, that's the Wal-Mart Stores way! Driving quality out of products sold at all retailers so they can sell cheaper, cheaper, cheaper.
     
  4. They could get away with this in the digital age. In the film age no one dared to steal the neg from a photographer.
     
  5. Walgreen here still processes the film in store. I get neg.s back, cd or not, no prints singles or doubles 4x6 5x7 8x10 . They do only process C-41 ,35mm tho. They are slowly cutting back on their wet labs.
     
  6. Clark Photo is still a reliable and cheap mail-order option, and I've also been happy with
    Dwayne's. For serious work, I'm lucky here in southwestern Connecticut to have a
    number of good local options nearby (Milford Photo, Ritz Camera, and in NYC, Luster).
     
  7. I take my film to a pro lab in Worcester, MA. No nonsense there.
     
  8. That's your property they are taking there. It's total BS, and I think they're looking for attention, and they'll get it!
     
  9. Move on to someone us while you can.
     
  10. As long as we're talking about Walmart & send out: does anyone know if they still send E6 to Dwayne's? I read on another forum that they were not -- at least on the west coast. And the price had gone up to $7.61 per roll (didnt say the # of exposures.)
     
  11. I have a hard time believing Wal-Mart is keeping your negatives. I think that is as illegal as it gets.
     
  12. Their deposit envelope now has only one option: develop and print and get a CD and NO NEGATIVES.​
    Does it actually say 'no negatives'? If not, did staff confirm it?
     
  13. sent emails to both dwayes and walmart ciustomer assistance.
    Walmart charged about $7 for a 24 exp roll
    others seem to charge about $9
    dwaynes charges $5.50 plus $4.50 shipping
    PLUS you need an envelope and postage to get it there.
    It sounds like Dwaynes is making money on the shipping
    I can send a brick somewhere for that price.
    (I agree that the negatives are your property
    and if even a small [percentage want reprints ( from scans?)
    of if we wanted to make an enlargement at home or elsewhere from that image
    there are likely limitations on the size or quality.
    I think a 35mm negative is equivalent to possibly 29 mp.
    How many of us can afford a high end digital camera ?
     
  14. It's hard to imagine them getting away with this without a big sign right in front saying something like WARNING
    NEGATIVES WILL NOT BE RETURNED. Even so, it isn't really an option for anyone who cares anything at all about their
    pictures. I suspect that soon, C-41 machines will be found only at a few mail order locations.
     
  15. I had a couple of rolls developed last week in the 1 hour lab and yes I got the negatives. But, I don't get prints. I get my C41 film developed and get an index print and negatives. The cost is $3.00 and it doesn't matter if it's a 24 or 36 exposure roll. I then scan the negatives with my Nikon CoolScan V ED and get great results. I live in rural east Tennessee and have a feeling policy is different in other areas of the country.
     
  16. Does anyone have suggestions for reliable mail order service ?
    does Target return negatives ?
     
  17. does Target return negatives ?​
    I have Target process my 35mm and they will return it cut in strips of 4. or rolled for 0.95cents a roll. It makes no difference in 24 or 36 pictures. I do not get prints or a CD. Our Target develops quite a bit of film actually and I doubt they will shut down the process. Many times I do my Target shopping while they process my film which is exactly what they are hoping will happen. Sometimes while they process 2 or 3 rolls of film I just go buy another 3 pack for $5.99. Our local independent lab quit processing film. Since digital photographers do not make that many prints they just sit around doing nothing. I think they keep the doors open as they shoot weddings and stuff on the side. Nice folks but they offer no service that I use so I stopped going in there.
    I would not be surprised if Wall Mart had that policy. The good news is I would not put a foot in that awful place if they processed film for free and gave me a basket full of cheaply made sweatshop junk for free. They can keep it all.
     
  18. "It sounds like Dwaynes is making money on the shipping"
    Remember it is shipping AND HANDLING + THE PACKAGE, etc.
    Dwayne's does a good job, provides 6 MP (2,000 x 3000 pixles) scans on CD and decent prints with quick turn around. You get what you pay for. If you go to Walmart and it sucks it is your fault for being stupid and cheap.
     
  19. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    Does it actually say 'no negatives'? If not, did staff confirm it?​

    How come nobody has answered this? Is there anyone else who has seen it?
     
  20. Their deposit envelope now has only one option: develop and print and get a CD and NO NEGATIVES.​
    Going to go ahead and take the liberty of calling BS on this one. I go to Sam's Club (owned by Walmart) and get 30 minute C-41 developing done in house no prints for $1.50. I use the Wally world send out service for E-6 medium format. It comes back uncut in a roll. It is cheaper than mailers... though it isn't cheap in absolute terms. Get a Sam's club membership and use their in store service... if your Sam's is decent.
     
  21. i emailed walmart I got back an answer about the " digital age"
    no mention of negatives. I said FILM ask someone else .
    Possibly this person just types anything at all.
    dwaynes did not answer.
    Someone recently posted " if you take film to walmart you are sheap and stupid"
    or something to that effect.
    No pimpily faced dropout ? as one person posted)
    as far as things said here walmart send film to dwaynes and fuji.
    When they still had the one hour lab, they always did a good job.
    I think wamart paid full price or close to it at dwaynes.
    it is saving on the shipping where you save money.
    You can order a huge TV( online only item) pick it up at the store and pay no shipping.
    because they send trucks everywhere.
    I still have not figured out how they sell prescriptions for $4 & $10
    But the VA wants $8/ month.
    If as one persom posted the images are sent electronically to the store they save big on convenience and shipping.
     
  22. I went in to my local Walmart yesterday, after reading the original post. Read their envelope. It says in big bold letters on the envelope "Negatives WILL NOT be returned". As the original poster says, this is very recent. I sent a roll off 10 days or so ago, and it was the usual prints and negs, and the "old" envelope. Was in a hurry, so didn't have time to ask anyone at Wally about it.
     
  23. Wait a minute! What is the problem with taking the negatives a stuffing them into the envelope? Why is that such an issue? The negatives come out, the negatives go in! Did somebody break their hand or something? It's like not getting a receipt for services rendered.
     
  24. If you have images on a site like Snapfish you can order prints and pick them up at a local store. They just send the files over the internet and they are printed at the store.
    I think it is clear that your film makes a one way trip to the trash when dropped at Walmart now. It does stop to too get developed and scanned. But how big is the scan and how good. If it is a quality scan of at least 2000x3000 in size it may be OK for most people that drop their film at Walmart. If the scan is poor and small like 1000x1500 I really think it is a waste of time and money.
    When I send my film to Dwaynes I get quality 2000x3000 scans on CD for $2.99 a roll. Return shipping for a big envelope of 76 prints (I get 38 exp a roll and order doubles) and a CD plus order forms is $4.50 for the first roll but only 50 cents more for each extra roll. The envelope is big and weighs the better part of a pound and is sent quickly. Dawynes devleop and print fee is low too. So I really think it is a good deal.
     
  25. Presumably research has shown that most Walmart customers don't care for the negatives - the prints/CD they receive are all they ever need. Most probably never bring negatives back for reprints, probably never scan the negatives themselves, probably don't even store them in any meaningful way. Returning negatives after processing to customers is also not just a matter of retrieving them from the machine and stuffing them in an envelope as someone suggested. Sleeving film requires time and supplies, both of which increase costs, and the suggestion that film is now being (or will soon be) developed centrally with only digital files transferred back to stores for printing sounds very plausible. Walmart has obviously done its research and found that this new system satisfies the majority of their customers and is more efficient and profitable.

    In my opinion, the photographic services offered by Walmart are irrelevant. (In fairness, there are no Walmart stores where I live.) The way I see it, if you care enough about your photography to want proper film processing, you should go to a photo lab, not a grocery store. Find one (either local or mail-order), whose prices/services you are happy with, and support them with your business. The more business they get, the longer that service will remain available. Always looking for the lowest possible prices is not necessarily the best way to get a service you are happy with. Besides, anyone still wanting to pursue film photography must surely already be aware there is going to be some level of price premium involved, considering the way photography is moving.
     
  26. The world of film gets stranger again. I guess eventually I will just have to quit photography as a hobby or just develop my own C41. However one thing is for sure and that is if Wall Mart was the last film processing place on earth I would not go there.
     
  27. I agree with Ross . I will not set foot in Wallyworld either. They treat their employees like garbage and promote slave labor. Walter. Their prescriptions are 4 and 10 dollars because they are made in china Someone told me some of our prescriptions are made in china so read the label on the bottle then throw it away. Your negatives are your property and you deserve to get your memories back on your negatives. Just think of all the unenvironmental friendly waste they are promoting by throwing thousands of negatives away. Walmart is not good for the economy. Walmart is not good for you.
     
  28. It seems really weird not to return negs. Why should the ordinary snapshotter (as opposed to the serious/hobby photographer) then bother with a film camera...it makes it seem a more difficult, slower and expensive way just to get their images onto computer when they could do it themselves with a digital camera (or phone). Or do Walmart simply want to get rid of film?
     
  29. All you cheapskates that get develop only. no prints, caused this. They don't make money on develop only. I always buy the prints for two reasons; to keep them in business and I have a backup in case the negatives get messed up. (I get the CD too, for the same reason)
    One time I got my film back and all the strips had been cut in the middle of the frame.
     
  30. Costco in northern NJ (Hackensack) still runs a great wet minilab with techs who keep it clean, change the chemistry often, and wet print everything on Fuji Crystal Archive paper, even the digital reprints are run through the chemistry, no dry inkjet crap. How long this will last is anyone's guess but the techs say they do a brisk C-41 business--used by some local pros--though they won't reveal how many rolls they actually run through on a daily business.
     
  31. Costco is not the problem. They are the solution. They do great work, and their proud of it, I can sense it within the workforce at the Costco lab.
     
  32. I'm with Horace about the negatives not being returned. The negative is your proof of copyright to the photograph in the event you just so happen to have a photograph that looks just like someone else photograph. If Wal-mart isn't returning your negatives I certainly wouldn't go there ever again and find a place that does.
    Also, what is Wal-mart doing with your negatives now? Selling the photographs of excellent quality to stock picture places? Probably not, but what if that is what they are doing? Would you know for sure? and how the heck would you challenge them in court if they own the negative of the original photograph? It is definitely something to look into on the legal side of photography.
     
  33. All you cheapskates that get develop only. no prints, caused this. They don't make money on develop only. I always buy the prints for two reasons; to keep them in business and I have a backup in case the negatives get messed up. (I get the CD too, for the same reason) One time I got my film back and all the strips had been cut in the middle of the frame.​
    Well I guess the Wally family appreciates your concern for their vast fortune.
     
  34. I agree with the above posts about Costco. They do a great job, the employees care and its very affordable. $3.99 develop and print a roll of 24. Add an extra 2.99 to burn a CD. We need to keep using them (and other film processors) so they will keep doing it!
     
  35. still no matter what is said, I WANT MY NEGATIVES BACK.
    I will find someone who does a good job and returns my negatives.
    As far as I still read HERE either Dwayes or Fuji does the work for walmart.
    I hopy Ypork or someone else does not do the work.
    back in time when Two Guys ( from harrison) started the first big dicount department store.
    the story was they sold only "seconds"
    as far as I know kodak never sold "seconds"
    and all the other companies that sold brand name products.
    I took my magnifier and looked at all my prescriptiosn, several in original bottles
    One was made in alabama and other was made by a known company in NJ
    If you believe everything in walmart is made in china, I agree do not ever go there.
    More fresh strawberries for me.. and the cinamon buns.
    I think what you said is an urban roumor
    sure many things are made in China. even pentax K100-.
    computer hard drives are made in SE Asia.
    My Va supplied lights are made in Germany ( Eshenbach)
    so are the better coffeemakers. so is my coffee ( really)
    it is an international world. yes lots of cheap plastic junk is made in third-world countries.
    But I do bypass local stores and buy MY cheap plastic junk directly and save a lot of money.
    All my money is Government money anyway ( ss retirement)
    and the VA gives me a big break on their prescriptions.
    and things made by BD in New Jersey.
    OH yes what happened to the American camera inductry.
    OOPS gotta stop this soapbox is getting shaky.
    Must be made in China or somewhere.
     
  36. I agree with the above posts about Costco. They do a great job, the employees care and its very affordable. $3.99 develop and print a roll of 24. Add an extra 2.99 to burn a CD. We need to keep using them (and other film processors) so they will keep doing it!​
    Sadly but our local CostCo stopped processing film. Apparently an expensive machine broke and the manager decided it was not cost effective to repair or replace it and dropped film service. Film for me has not been the same since then. Right now i have Target process the film only and then I scan it. However on my last roll they did a poor job on cutting the film and ruined every 4th frame.
     
  37. "Target no longer processes film". Notice in photo dept at Target store here in Tempe, Arizona.
     
  38. Its pretty obvious that film processing is no longer a profitable business for Walmart. If you go to their website you can't even find film processing among their photo department products. I think its time to find another processor.
     
  39. I picked up several rolls I had left off last week at the local Costco. A different tech told me they are lucky if they run 10 rolls
    of C-41 through the Noritsu a day, but as they continue to wet print all the digital reprints there is no plan to stop film
    processing or go over to dry inkjet printing. BTW, the colours literally pop off the Crystal Archive paper in a way that dry
    printing can't, at least to my old retired eyes.
     
  40. James G. Dainis

    James G. Dainis Moderator

    Mr. Eaton, it seems even if film was returned you could still stay, "Why should the ordinary snapshotter (as opposed to the serious/hobby photographer) then bother with a film camera...it makes it seem a more difficult, slower and expensive way just to get their images onto computer when they could do it themselves with a digital camera (or phone). "

    The vast majority of snapshooters do nothing with the negatives, now or in the past. Photos were passed around or put into albums and the negatives disappeared. Contex not quality are what snapshooters are interested in. A poorly exposed, off color photo of Uncle Harry sneaking an extra piece of birthday cake would draw comments of "What a great photo!" If they have a photo and want to make copies they just scan it on a flat bed scanner and print it either on photo paper or on computer paper.

    Even if the snapshooters of the past only shot one or two films a year, that added up to millions of rolls of film processed. Now with digital cameras and camera phones they can shoot hundreds of poorly exposed, poorly composed photos on every and any occasion and they don't have to worry about throwing away theose funny looking strips that came back with their film photos.

    I'm a bit surprised that Walmart doesn't realize that it is no longer snapshooters who use film but serious photographers who use film for the qualities that they admire about film and will want their negatives back.
     
  41. Regarding WalMart not returning your negatives................

    Try your local Walgreens. Mine still develops film, makes prints, and burns cd's at my local store with 1 hour service. You can get a coupon for $2 off of film developing here:
    http://photo2.walgreens.com/walgreens/storepage/storePageId=SEM3?ext=gooPhoto_NB_Roll_Film_Developing_Broad_film_developing_coupons&sst=6e1e904a-da16-1048-d3cd-0000709bd143
     
  42. Wal Mart is not returning negs because they want to eliminate film from the face of the earth. Makes life easier and more profitable for them if they don't have to actually provide SERVICE.
     
  43. Wouldn't it be more profitable for these stores to keep doing film? Isn't film more expensive to process, develop, make prints, scan then digital prints? Wouldn't they be losing money if that was the case?
     
  44. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    Wal Mart is not returning negs because they want to eliminate film from the face of the earth.​

    I seriously doubt Walmart cares about eliminating anything other than corporate taxes and employee benefits. If they don't want to carry something, they don't. There's no law compelling them to carry film.
    Makes life easier and more profitable for them if they don't have to actually provide SERVICE.​

    If that were the case, they would simply stop developing film. That's common logic, there is no law compelling them to develop film.
     
  45. Imagine that there are no outlets to process film, scan and print. What would you have? Nothing! What would be the point of a so called, 'LAB', Just printing from digital camera's. There's definatly no money in that. What if all digital shooters bought their own printers? Good for the printer business, but thats not going to happen. No, I think ignorance on film is rampant. Ignorance on Photography in general is rampant. This whole confusion thing on the subject is getting old with me, and this not returning negatives to its rightful owner is ridiculous.
     
  46. I used to work at a major drug store chain. I did the books there and I know we earned very little money on film developing even when film was at its peak in the late 1990s. We often ran sales on developing and then we made no money at all.
    The reason we did it was film developing is great for business in that it gets you to come into the store 3 times for one roll of film. When you first buy the roll, when you drop it off and when you pick it up. Once a customer is in the store you make your money on all the other things they buy.
    So digital also cost the drug stores a lot of money too. I used to go to the local store a couple of time a month when they still offered film developing. They stopped and I have not been back in over a year. All my film is mail order now.
     
  47. All you cheapskates that get develop only. no prints, caused this. They don't make money on develop only.​
    Bill, well that's too bad. The only reason I use them for developing is they send them out to be developed. And making prints is far more difficult than developing. I don't trust the pimply kids at Wally World to make decent prints. If I can't get developed negatives back they are useless too me. I see no reason I should have to buy sh---y prints just to subsidize a multibillion dollar company. Like I said if the Sam's near you is competent go there. You are still taking a chance with in store staff but at least developing is tougher to screw up than printing.
     
  48. So based on what Brian says, it seems foolish for a big drug store (CVS, Walgreens, etc.) to drop their film processing even if it's not a high profit margin item. He's right - it does get me in the door and I do buy other things. I always order prints with my film processing as well as a CD. And then while I'm there I pick up some milk and Excedrin and the other little things I need. And I think we all know that Walgreens and CVS are not exactly cheap on most items compared to Wallyworld or Target, so they make a lot of money off of me taking my film in there to process. I go in to drop off my film, and walk out with $50 worth of stuff (retail value) that cost the store $10 wholesale.
    Here's what I don't understand about digital. It's supposed to be so convenient - that's the whole selling point, right? I can load my pics from my camera onto my PC, and then order prints from there if I want to. So why the hell would I want to order prints and then drive to the store to pick them up? That's not convenient. If I'm going to drive to the store, I'll shoot film and take it in.
    It's like somebody else said - these big chain stores have a bunch of pubescent pimply-assed MBA punks working for them in Chicago and Manhattan trying to figure out how to pinch a few more cents of profit. In the process of doing that, they just shoot themselves in the foot. I really enjoy figuring out ways to screw up their customer behavior probability models. I was taking pictures before they were a twinkle in their daddies' eyes, and I sure as hell don't need them telling me how to take pictures and get them processed now.
     
  49. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    these big chain stores have a bunch of pubescent pimply-assed MBA punks working for them in Chicago and Manhattan trying to figure out how to pinch a few more cents of profit.​

    This is not true at all and it's really unpleasant to see insults hurled at people who happen to be working there, especially when the typical MBA hired by the big box chains is going to be over 25. Having worked closely with a big box chain, and in the upper echelons of a very large broadcast retailer, and for internet retail, I can say that you are way off the mark.

    The way it works for every department these days is that they have to analyze the cost and revenue by square foot of each department. The cost includes labor, equipment, etc. There is a residual amount of value to pulling in new customers, but film hasn't been doing enough of that for years. Instead, the "MBAs" are typically analyzing the square foot cost and revenue and determine how to improve that. But they don't set the targets. The targets are set well above them.

    The result of their work can be ways to improve the goals for a department, or it may be elimination or shrinkage of another department. Look at what Best Buy has done to the music section. Selling CDs is obviously a declining business, and Best Buy shrinks the footprint of that section and grows space for portable devices. So when you look at in-store film processing, the big box stores will do a huge amount of analysis and determine if the space for the photo processing and printing department, which is substantial because of the equipment and storage of what is given to the customers (with or without negatives), it's not going to last if the volume is declining and the footprint of another department, existing or new, can be expanded.
    I sure as hell don't need them telling me how to take pictures and get them processed now.​

    I don't know any store doing that, or trying to do that. They are making decisions based on their business models, not telling you anything.
     
  50. Look at what Best Buy has done to the music section.​
    Best Buy is going out of business. But your point is well taken. The newly graduated MBAs do not make the big calls. And Walmart despite some distasteful business practices has an incredible retail machine. There is a lot to learn from them. If you ever get the chance to watch a documentary on their logistical operation do it. You will see why they are cleaning the clock of ma and pa businesses. They have an incredible system that tracks sales and inventory. They can sit at headquarters and almost in real time see what is moving and what stores need what inventory. It is one of the brilliant examples where a multibillion dollar company is truly adding value. They get goods to the consumer in a fast efficient fashion. at&t on the other hand makes money by cramming false charges on customers bills. Call up at&t to ask them to block a text spammer from your phone and they say they can't do it unless you pay extra. Really?!
     
  51. For those of you in northern NJ (Bergen and Hudson Counties), the CVS in Edgewater is still developing and printing 35mm film. I haven't used them so I'm not sure of the quality, but you do get your negatives back as everything is done on site in their minilab.
    Costco, however, is still the cheapest and the best quality locally (Hackensack).
    The Target in North Bergen was doing film as of several months ago but the quality poor -- negatives scratched, chemistry dirty, employees totally disinterested, almost annoyed to be bothered serving you.
     
  52. First as I said before not returning negatives is just stupid.
    I can understand why the convenient 1 hour in store labs are gone.
    Ours was excellent. but the new store only has machines to print from digital media.
    if the volume of film processed is low the chemicals will go bad or cost more to replace.
    But if the film is sent to a remote location like dwaynes,
    and the wait time is about a week., I see no reason why it cannot
    at $7.00 for d&p on a 24 exp roll of c-41
    and the lower charge if you did not have to pay shipping ( very high) back from dwaynes ( or fuji or whatever)\
    it is still profitable. That little box in the store with that slot takes up 2 square feet.
    and the store has no headaches to deal with.
    Just keep the envelope slot filles.
    I fail to see the reasoning.
    also It increases the Volume for dwaynes -or whoever.
    and reduces there overall costs.
    Since Walmart and target especially walmart
    are traveling ALL over the country, It is no big deal for them to pick up a box of fimnisghed photos or take evneloped from each store and deliver them.
    I can see no downside to this.
    the costs associated with sending photos and cd images to store
    my be lower, but what do 20? rolls of film or 20 rolls of developed film and prints cost to ride on a truck that is going all over anyway.
    I think it is a stupid move
    the argument that it brings people into the store is not valid.
    I recall going from store to store dragges by my wife looking for stuff we never found.
     
  53. Well, the Wal-Marts, Targets, CVS, Costcos and the rest put in 1-hour photo services to get you in the door (as mentioned above) and killed the Mom and Pops that proliferated in the 1990's.

    Now the Mom and Pops are gone, the chains realize there's no money to be made.
    I see this as an opportunity for new Mom and Pops. It isn't like video rentals, where Blockbuseter and The Wherehouse put all the locals out of business, only to die themselves just a few years later. That rental business was supplanted by Netflix and online streaming.
    But, you can't online stream film and still return the negatives.
    Enterprising people can build new photo stores that serve both digital and film in better ways than before. But they have to make wise moves and position themselves well in the community.
    There is a new movement towards quality and of course everyone is value conscious. But there it is.
    Wal-Mart may not want your money but smaller stores might do quite well in the new market.
     
  54. Bring back the Fotomat! :)
     
  55. Bill,
    You're 100% right, the big boxers put the mom-and-pop retailers out of business, now they face no competition and can stop film processing without affecting their bottom line.
    Even if there is a return of mom-and-op niche retailers, they will not be able to beat Costco's prices of $1.59 to develop, 10 cents a print and $2.99 burn to CD. OTOH, once all the chains drop film processing, niche stores can charge what they want.
    Personally, I think C-41 processing will all go to mail order once the Costcos, Targets, et al. go fully digital.
     
  56. Any thoughts on what would happen if you dropped off E-6 for their "send out" service? In the past, this has been a popular option for many especially since it is likely Dwayne's that does the actual processing... Also what about if you drop off 120?
     
  57. But if the Costco's, Targets go fully digital, what do they have? A printer? What printer? A printer that will deliver, and render your fine image in a way that it deserves? Labs that develop and print film usually are equipped with superior printers that have a wide color gamut. I doubt department stores are going to prioritize to a sophisticated printer to keep the discriminating digital Photographer happy. You may say, well then E-mail your images to a Pro-lab. It still falls under inconvenience for some people in different locals. The concept of superior service in general is in jeopardy in our country let alone Photography.
     
  58. if I can get someone in Arkasas on the phone tomorrow
    I will asks them about e-6 and 120
    I do wonder if they can scan 120 ? or develop B&W
    Hmm keep my B&W negatives ( if I did not do them myself)
    Dwaynes still did not answer me.
     
  59. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    What printer? A printer that will deliver, and render your fine image in a way that it deserves? Labs that develop and print film usually are equipped with superior printers that have a wide color gamut.​

    My local Costco uses Nortsu 3111 printers with Crystal Archive paper operated by people who just operate the equipment. For larger prints, they use Epson 7880 pigment printers. The profiles for the printers are available online so that neither the machine nor the operator is making color choices. The local Walgreens that develops film has an older Frontier printer operated by people who are also cashiers. Although there was one teen who worked there for a couple years, most people seem to come and go. Quality has nothing to do with what they print.
    You may say, well then E-mail your images to a Pro-lab. It still falls under inconvenience for some people in different locals. The concept of superior service in general is in jeopardy in our country let alone Photography.​
    I can upload my photos to mpix or WHCC and get them back in the mail in two days. I'm not sure how that could be an inconvenience to anyone. If I need prints same day I can go to Costco. This is a terrible argument, many of the places that process film, such as Walmart, Target and Walgreens care less about the customer than the high volume stores and mail order companies.
     
  60. Jeff, The Noritsu printer, is it a stand alone printer? or is it a develop and print machine. I don't know. Also, the Costco here does a great job, I'll ask.
     
  61. In talking to some folks, it looks as though Fuji might have ticked off Walmart to the point that they are getting rid of the C-41 machines from many of the 300 stores. It was also mentioned that the chemistry is expensive and that at least the local Walmart store that does pretty well has doubled their price in the past few months on film developing.
    It stands to reason that this might be more on the supplier of chemistry than Walmart in that they have increased the prices on C-41 to the point that the price the customer now pays has hit the numbers hard enough to have Walmart Corporate consider a consolidation of the service.
    Wolf Camera got rid of a lot of in store C41 a couple years ago, the store in our town is now gone...

    Something on the supply side is doing this, Target got rid of C41, Walmart is about to and Wolf did as well...Walmart now claims that film will be sent out, then scanned on site and the data loaded onto a sever at the store where the prints will be made at and given to the customer, sans negs...
     
  62. Daniel, I follow your reasoning but I don't agree. There will be always be SOME market for film, and Fuji is the only major manufacturer left. It would make no sense for Fuji to force everyone who processes their film out of business when they have the film market cornered.
    No, I think it has only to do with the fact that at least the big retailers don't want to screw with film anymore. My guess is down the road the only places left to get film processed will be mom and pop shops, and they will be able to charge a fortune for the service. Unless...... some major retail player gets smart and figures out there is still a film processing market to make money from. I have no plans at all to go digital. The more I see and hear about it the less interested I am.
     
  63. It would make no sense for Fuji to force everyone who processes their film out of business when they have the film market cornered.​
    They may have the processing world "cornered" but they don't have the entire film world "cornered." Anyway Walmart is consolidating... not getting rid of C-41 developing.
     
  64. There is no reason that Mom and Pops (if they did return) would be free to charge any price they like. There is always a market reality where one can price themselves right out of business.
    In the case of Wal-Mart and others, if they considered film processing a loss-leader to drive store visits they must have determined there is now too little return on that loss.
    They were subsidizing the price and giving a false sense of the cost of services. Of course Mom and Pops should not be expected to do the same.
    I believe there is money to be made somewhere in the middle but certainly any new labs have to offer more than film processing alone or they won't survive.
    A very small part-time business that takes in film and processes it in a garage somewhere once or twice a week might be able to get by on film alone.
    Either way, it's getting tougher.
     
  65. William, sorry if I gave you the impression that there is not a market for film. I mean, good god, look at this thread I started:
    http://www.photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00acNR
    I was just passing on info, I will talk to Dwayne's tomorrow. Blue Moon Camera who does wonderful optical, not scanned RA-4 prints from negatives said today that they have not seen any spikes in price on C-41 chemistry, just the regular, expect price increases one seas over the course of the year.
    So I am still trying to see if I can find out why big box retailers are dumping C41 all at the same time like this...
     
  66. Don Bright said:
    Costco is not the problem. They are the solution. They do great work, and their proud of it, I can sense it within the workforce at the Costco lab.​
    Psul aul said:
    I agree with the above posts about Costco. They do a great job, the employees care and its very affordable. $3.99 develop and print a roll of 24. Add an extra 2.99 to burn a CD. We need to keep using them (and other film processors) so they will keep doing it!​
    I thought this too until my Costco stopped processing film. I had some film processed there about six weeks ago. Two weeks ago I went in with another roll of film and discovered that their film processor and printer is gone. They only do digital printing on an ink jet printer now. There is another Costco several miles further away that still does film processing, but for how long is a question.
     
  67. A lot of people who can't afford digital cameras still buy and use the single-use film cameras that come pre-loaded with film. Or they only buy and use the regular consumer film (which is perfectly good film, by the way) that is still sold in drug stores and probably even in Walmart. It's very possible that a significant number of these people don't really care about the negatives. They just want prints. If they can get prints and digital scans on a CD, all the better. For these kinds of film users, the new Walmart "service" may seem perfectly fine. If they get their prints and CD sooner than they would compared to waiting for the negatives to be returned with the accompanying prints and CD, they may see it as an improvement.

    What Walmart is offering seems fine to me, so long as the people who are using the service are aware that they wont get their negatives back and they accept that. I'm sure these same people know they could send their film to a lab that will return their negatives, or that they could take their film to Walgreens or CVS or another store that still processes film.
    I wonder if Walmart considered offering to return film to people who want it as an extra-cost item? I'm sure they could justify charging for something that used to be free (included in the price of processing) based on the added cost relative to their standard offering. They might actually be able to make money on it from photographers who value their negatives.
     
  68. as said the email from walmard was " digital era "stuff I doubt the person ever saw a negative.
    the ladies at walmart assured me they DID get negatives back.
    but yes the envelope has changes still no NO NEGATIVED sign.
    I do not believe or trust them
    I will call and talk to a real person not sole low level person who does not know anything.
    Dwaynes STILL did not reply
    I will call it is free for me.
    But I have a lab lined up
    the extra charge for negatives is interesting.
     
  69. Photographers who value their negatives won't use Wal-Mart.
    In the meantime I saw prepaid processing envelopes at Target. $9.99 plus tax for "any size" roll of 35mm C-41 or a disposable camera. Still more than Costco but I might try one just for kicks.
    It does not say if you get your negatives back but it's hard to imagine them not returning with the prints, since they are mailed.
     
  70. Everything has changed (and this is fairly recent).
    Their deposit envelope now has only one option: develop and print and get a CD and NO NEGATIVES.
    Gone is the regular or premium choice. Gone is the 4" or 5" choice. Gone is the CD or no-CD choice.​
    I was on the road and checked a Walmart in New England. EVERYTHING looked exactly like it did at every other Walmart I've used for months. The envelope was the exact same as it's always been. No signs about "no negatives returned." I actually have a stack of mailers at home and just fill them out as needed (minimizes the amount of time I have to be in Wally World). I actually dropped my 120 Portra 160 roll off and the lady there said the negatives would magically find their way back to the Walmart on the address label which is close to where I live. She said you can drop the film off at ANY Walmart in the US and it will find it's way home. I don't know how true that is but it will be a fun experiment. I'll keep you guys posted. If this Wally World teleportation trick works it means you can use Walmart send out service envelopes from your home base as a mail out service when you are on the road in America.
    I attached a picture of a Walmart send out service envelope I picked up today. Seems the same to me. Sorry for the lousy picture quality... It's a cell phone picture.
    00ae1y-484383584.jpg
     
  71. This whole campaign to eliminate film and film processing is a big capitalist scam. It's planned obsolescence. It's just like any other manufacturer selling you something and then discontinuing parts so that you have to buy new before you want or need to. I'm telling you we should not put up with this. This is bullshit. Why the hell would I want to pay $1000 for a digital camera when I have a film cameras that produce higher quality photos? And from what I've heard, digital cameras have a pretty limited lifespan anyway; when they quit working you basically just have to throw them away and spend another $1000 for another one. It's bullshit.
     
  72. This whole campaign to eliminate film and film processing is a big capitalist scam.​
    Take it easy, Occupy. Whether you are buying film or digital cameras you are forking over money to "capitalists." Believe me the "capitalists" over at Kodak wish film would make a huge comeback.
    And from what I've heard, digital cameras have a pretty limited lifespan anyway; when they quit working you basically just have to throw them away and spend another $1000 for another one. It's bullshit.​
    Let me guess, some dolt told you DSLRs are "obsolete" in <1 year. Am I right? There is absolutely no need to spend anywhere near $1,000 for a DSLR. You can get an excellent 18 megapixel DSLR from Canon for less than $500. Who in their right mind on a budget is dropping $1,000 on a DSLR? The part that usually wears out on most cameras with extended use is the shutter and that can be easily replaced... if you want to. For 90+% of the shooters out there an 18 megapixel Canon T3i is more than enough camera. There is zero need to get a new DSLR if you have that camera unless you want enhanced movie making options. The megapixel race has finally gotten to the point where you really aren't missing out on anything by not upgrading to the latest and greatest... at least not in 35mm APS sensor world.
    Let's stop the myths about film AND digital. They both have their pros and cons and we can discuss both in reasonable terms.
     
  73. To Jeff:
    Take it easy, Mitt. I never said there was no place for digital. If that's what you want, go for it.
    But if I'm going to buy a new camera (and I'm NOT) what point would there be in buying one without at least as many features as my Nikon film SLR? You ain't gonna find any DSLR at WalMart for $500 that fits that description.
    So yes, I agree, let's stop the myths.
     
  74. To Jeff:
    Take it easy, Mitt.​
    Nice come back :D I like people who can take a joke.
    But if I'm going to buy a new camera (and I'm NOT) what point would there be in buying one without at least as many features as my Nikon film SLR?​
    No one told YOU to buy a new camera. I just objected to that absurd $1,000 figure. If you are quoting prices that are double street price and hundreds of dollars more than LIST price it's got to get called out... has to be done. Anyway I never simply count up the number of "features" a camera has. I'm more concerned about the QUALITY of the few features I will actually use. My film MF rig takes the pictures with the best objective image quality on average and it has the fewest "features."
    You ain't gonna find any DSLR at WalMart for $500 that fits that description.​
    Never bought a DSLR at Walmart... never will. Go online and check out the NY/NJ photo/electronics stores if you want to see the real street prices. Walmart is for suckers.
    Presently I shoot more film than digital. Each one serves it's own purpose. There are lots of areas of overlap but when I want a particular "look" from a certain film it is easier for me to just shoot that film instead of shooting digital and making a poor facsimile in Photoshop... after a ton of work.
     
  75. I don't think the $1,000 figure is that absurd if you are trying to replace a decent 35mm Nikon film camera with a digital SLR that has similiar features. Lets assume a Nikon N80 or F100. Both can be had pretty cheap on the used market right now, but to get a digital "equivalent" (I am acknowleding that there is not a perfect digital equivalent to either of these camera bodies) you'd have to go to a Nikon D7000. Like the F100 and the N80, the D7000 has two control wheels and an autofocus motor built into the body to allow autofocus with no AFS lenses. The D7000 currently is selling for $1199 at major camera retailors. The other factor is the D7000 has a dx crop sensor, which means your lenses will give you a different field of view than they did on your film camera. Which may or may not mean you have to buy new lenses too. And lets not get into the change in flash technology from regular ttl to i-ttl.
    So, if one has a decent 35mm film camera and wants to go to a digital slr that has similiar in features, the $1000 figure is pretty realistic if not a bit low.
     
  76. I don't think the $1,000 figure is that absurd if you are trying to replace a decent 35mm Nikon film camera with a digital SLR that has similiar features. Lets assume a Nikon N80...​
    Yeah lets...
    Nikon N80 Canon T3i
    FPS
    2.5​
    3.7
    Exposure Compensation 1/2 stop 1/3 or 1/2
    Viewfinder
    92%​
    95%
    Max shutter sync 1/125 1/200
    I didn't have time to do a full camera review but I can assure you regarding numerous "features" the sub $500 Canon T3i DESTROYS the Nikon N80. Why someone would feel the need to spend over 100% more than the street price of the Canon T3i to outclass the N80 is beyond me.
     
  77. The T3i doesn't take Nikon AF-D lenses does it, Jeff?
    Jeff you missed my point completely and I am not sure what point you are trying to make. If the user of an N80 of F100 wants to get a digital camera with the same basic functionality- and use all their lenses in the fashion they are used to they are going to have spend in the $1000 range..
    I am sure the T3i is a great camera- but if a Nikon user bought one, he would have to get a new set of lenses and and if he used external flash, a new flash unit on top of that. It would be serious money to duplicate the same photographic experience the user already had with his film cameras. Even in the Nikon line, the sub $1000 dSLRs all lack the ability to autofocus with AF-D lenses and have only one control wheel (I suspect the T3i is the same in this regard)
     
  78. Canon Dslr has nothing to do with Wal-Mart not returning film negatives.
     
  79. The T3i doesn't take Nikon AF-D lenses does it, Jeff?​
    Neither to 8x10 cameras. What's your point?

    Jeff you missed my point completely and I am not sure what point you are trying to make.​
    The point I made was there will always be someone out there that will have some desire for a particular niche feature. It seems ludicrous to extrapolate that out and imply that EVERYONE that purchases a DSLR needs to spend $1,000 to get that one feature... while ignoring all the other features where the <$500 DSLR trounces the N80. I think the view finder and FPS are something the average user is going to use a heck of a lot more than a specific no motorized lens for a specific line of cameras.
    but if a Nikon user...​
    Nikon users are a minority. Most people don't have an SLR of any kind and of the people that do more people have Canons than Nikons. I didn't say every single person that owns a film SLR needs to dump their equipment and buy a Canon DSLR. I was just pushing back at the absurd notion that for the average person buying a DSLR means dropping a grand on a camera body. Switching from Nikon to Canon is expensive whether you are switching from film to digital or film to film. Being digital doesn't change that.
    William Y made a very general statement. I was refuting that statement with facts. I can not address EVERY niche use of a film camera. Furthermore he just said the NUMBER of features. He didn't say this one specific feature. I don't know that anyone has done an objective "feature" count and declared a winner one way or another. To me it seems they both have tons of different features and raw count comparisons are meaningless. Frankly I've never heard of someone evaluating two very different cameras that way.
    The Canon T3i is a very competent digital competitor to the N80 in terms of "feature" count. It may not have one or two of the exact features you are looking for but that does not therefor mean every serious photographer has to spend $1,000 on a DSLR. That's nonsense.
     
  80. OK now I got the drift. Wally Mart is just going with the time and tried to tell me in a more gentle way that "Silly old man with that film SLR, we don't want your business, you're obsolete just as your camera".
     
  81. OK now I got the drift. Wally Mart is just going with the time and tried to tell me in a more gentle way that "Silly old man with that film SLR, we don't want your business, you're obsolete just as your camera".​
    Wall Mart is obsolete to me. There is nothing that they have to sell or a service to provide that I will accept. The store is completely dead to me.
     
  82. I can't imagine why somebody who is a photography enthusiast would send his precious films to such a cheap and nasty happy snappers outfit to be processed.
     
  83. Has it been clearly determined that all Wal-Marts are not returning negatives, or is it just happening in some stores or regions? From reading through the posts in this thread is seems like its not clear yet what is going on.
     
  84. I can't imagine why somebody who is a photography enthusiast would send his precious films to such a cheap and nasty happy snappers outfit to be processed​
    For the BILLIONTH time the Walmart send out service is just a cheap conduit to get your film to Dwayne's or similar. Walmart does NOT process your film themselves. Ever use a Fuji Film mailer? Same thing. Develop Kodachrome any time in the last 5 years? Same thing. Every thread we have to explain this to the thread crappers.
    Has it been clearly determined that all Wal-Marts are not returning negatives, or is it just happening in some stores or regions? From reading through the posts in this thread is seems like its not clear yet what is going on.​
    Psul, your assessment unlike that of many other posters in this thread is correct. After I read the wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread I went to my local Wally World and sent off a roll of 120 Portra to see what would happen. In about a week we should have results. In the mean time I did NOT see anything at my local Walmart that indicates there is any kind of change in policy. This may be a store specific policy or it may be in the process of being rolled out. What would be helpful is if people would physically go to their local Walmarts and check. If there is a change a picture of the change would be nice.
     
  85. I'm not really sure. I went to a local Wal-Mart to check (Secaucus, NJ), but some moron phoned in a bomb threat and the store was evacuated just as I got there.
    I'm dropping off a short roll of 35mm Fuji C-41 at the nearby CVS which still has a minilab. I never used that store before, so I will see what kind of a job they do. I'm sure the quality will not be up to Costco's standards.
     
  86. My local WalMart in Iowa has only drop off envelopes that clearly state negatives will not be returned.

    Regarding CVS, they are building their first store in my city. It will be interesting to see if they offer film processing. Currently the Walgreens locations in my city DO offer film processing on site in one hour.
     
  87. Forewarned is forearmed.
    If you take any film to Walmart, after having been warned, do not come here crying your eyes out that you didn't get your negatives back.
    If you want to play the try-and-see game then it's just for your own entertainment at this point. Not that the rest of us won't be entertained as well. :)
     
  88. do not come here crying your eyes out​
    Errr... Slow your roll Captain Negativity. Who is "crying their eyes out?" Are we not allowed to verify internet rumors? Or should we just take one anecdotal story on the internet as the gospel truth? There is no law against going to your local Walmart and checking the kiosk is there? Who get's hurt? The Walmarts I checked showed NO evidence of any change. Furthermore I sent a roll of 120 film. Even if the send out service works for me I cannot guarantee it works for 35mm C-41 film. I use Sam's for 35mm C-41. Someone else will have to do the 35mm C-41 test somewhere.
    Give me a week and I will report back. I also attached a picture of the send out envelope. There was no change it it from my previous visits. It would really be helpful if someone could post a picture of the alleged new no negatives send out envelope.
     
  89. I think the dichotomy here has to do with the relative population density of the area in which the Walmart is located. In more populated areas, such as the northeast and west coast, the courier service is more efficient than paying the $40 or so to send the packages out FedEx to the lab in TN. In more rural areas, there might be 30+ miles between Walmarts, so it's not worth it to send a courier on two 1-hour trips to pick up the film and deliver the prints.

    For the record, my Walmart in Willow Grove, PA (a suburb of Philadelphia) says nothing regarding negatives not being returned. I'm headed to a more rural part of the state later this week, so I'll try to stop by the Walmart up there and see what's going on.
     
  90. This morning I dropped by the Scarborough, Maine Walmart to check it out. There was no sign on the drop box about not returning negatives so I asked the guy about it telling him what I'd read here and other places lately. He said they always returned the negatives, that nothing had changed nor had he heard of anything like that coming along. Who knows how much he really knows of course but he seemed to know what he was talking about. At least I didn't have to explain what they were when I asked if they still did slides and medium format through the drop off (the answer is yes, they do) :). He did mention that this was the twentieth largest store in the country so if it is going on that may have something to do with it or it could be a regional thing. We'll see I guess.
     
  91. this is a long thread.
    last week I took a few of the send out envelopes and it has cnanged.
    it does not mention negatives. it does not say develop only as an option.
    I asked the middle aged ladies and they say they have lots of negatived
    in the bins. (( btw if you do not pick up photos PRINTS withing three
    months they will discard the PRINTS and save the nagatives)
    I called Bbentonville AR., after after that inocuous email about the digital age last week, I went thry a go round with the 800 number
    called the toll number and was sent to walmart com went back to the
    toll number and was routted to a voicemail of ???
    hope he or she gets back to me.
    bottom line?
    I do not know.
    I am investigating abcphoto( successor to mystic)., dwaynes., snap photo, vermont color and possibly dale's.
    all.. I hope someone has suggestions for a decent lab.
    I do not expect good news from this walmart person.
    I could get a c-41 kit. My present temp controlled homebrew tank still works.
     
  92. For anyone still following, I picked up the prints from CVS. I had dropped off a 13-exposure C-41 roll a few days ago. First, CVS is still selling film. There were lots of single-use cameras on the rack, along with Kodak colour and b&w film, both Tri-X and the chromogenic stock, plus the CVS house brand.
    The minilab did a reasonably well job. No scratches on the negatives, 4" x 6" glossies wet printed on Kodak paper--I like the Fuji Crystal Archive Costco uses better--and jpegs on CD (1908 x 1272 pixels).
    However, the cost was way more than Costco. The receipt did not break down the developing and printing, but was $7.79, plus $3.49 for the CD, a pretax total of $11.28. The same roll at Costco would be $5.88.
    Costco charges $1.59 to develop (or $1.19 if you order double prints), then 10 cents per 4" x 6" print, and $2.99 for a CD. The resolution on the Costco CDs varies, I've gotten anything from as small as 1544 x 1024 to as large as 3087 x 2048, very hit and miss and odd as they use the same scanner.
    The minilab operator at CVS was not there, otherwise I was going to ask how many rolls she runs through in a day, any plans she's heard to pull out the wet lab, etc.
     
  93. see the new thread "walmart DOES return negatives."
    that is wahat the manager told me at 2pm
     
  94. Some do
    Some don't
    Someday soon
    All won't
     
  95. Just got my medium format negatives back...same price...under $3 with prints.

    Maybe 35mm is the only one that changed.
     
  96. The Walmart where I live has in store developing, and always gives the negatives
    back.
     
  97. My local Walmart also changed the send out envelopes and new ones do say "negatives will not be returned." I called Fuji customer service (the 1800 number on the Walmart send out envelope) and they explained to me that only C-41 color negatives will not be returned. The developed BW, E6, and medium format C-41 films will come back.

    So I sent out a roll of 35mm TriX through my local Walmart 2 weeks ago, and just got back my negative today. I didn't ask prints. It's $1.88 plus tax. Negatives were uncut and put in a film plastic canister.
     
  98. just got back a roll of slides at Walmart. I marked the package "please return uncut, unmounted"....the slides came back mounted with a sticker on the outside that said "service not available.
     
  99. Hi
    I live in the uk and send my filrs to club35.co.uk freepost. You can download an order form on line and so far no problems about getting negatives or prints back but retun postage per film is .95p so if you send 4 films that is £3.80, but the service is still relatively cheap. If anyone knows of a better or cheaper postal service in the uk I would like to hear from you.
     
  100. "The reason we did it was film developing is great for business in that it gets you to come into the store 3 times for one roll of film. When you first buy the roll, when you drop it off and when you pick it up. Once a customer is in the store you make your money on all the other things they buy." Brian Q.
    When I had my "brick & mortar" stores in the 1980's, this was the real reason for going through all the toil.
    Even utilizing an advanced amateur film processing company, and during a time when these processing companies provided regular visits from their representative (with customer service quality the main goal) there was a pretty good amount of "redo's" being handled at the customer counter.
    That said even today, you must have the negatives to REDO errant prints !

    Finally, it sounds like WalMart is running a regional/isolated "Beta" program to see if an attempt to curtail film processing affects the overall bottom line. (money on all the other things they buy)
     
  101. I don't think anyone prints from negatives at these places any more. They print from prints or digital media. Film processing is just becoming too expensive. $15 for a 24-exp roll at my local pharmacy now.
     

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