VR on Super-Tele (I don't get it!)

I shoot sideline sports and was on the verge of dropping $7.500 on a Nikon

400/2.8. Now that the new one has arrived with VR - I need someone to explain

to me how VR helps if a 400mm/2.8 lens is ALWAYS on either a monopod or a

tripod.

 

I am 6'1", 200 lb guy in good shape and I wouldn't dream of handholding that

monster. Exactly why would I lust for VR on big glass??

 

As I see it, it is a great opportunity to snap up a non-VR version at a reduced

price, now that everyone else is going to race out an buy the VR version. What

am I missing?

A monopod isn't perfectly stable, so the VR should help there.

 

I'm no upper-body monster, but I hand-held Canon's 400mm f/2.8 (which I'll bet is heavier than the Nikon) for a couple of hours (intermittently) recently. It was a chore, but doable.

At higher magnification, even the slap of the mirror will cause vibration that's noticeable in the image. The tripod VR solves that problem.

Not that I'm a professional, but this seems like a no-brainer to me. I see all sorts of "sideline shooters" with thier lenses mounted on monopods. Call me shakey, but I've never been able to get a good shot with a monopod. VR would be a huge advantage in this situation.

As Geoff said, there are times when you won't be able or willing to use a tripod (at least

that's the case for many of us). Besides the possibility of hand-holding, which I do

routinely for shots of flying birds with a Canon 500/4 IS, you might be working from

inside a vehicle -- a very good way to get wildlife shots. Or you might use a monopod for

greater mobility.

 

Even on a solid tripod, when you get down to moderate and low shutter speeds,

stabilization is a great help. And if you are trying to track a moving subject, you can't

'lock down' the tripod head for rigidity, and here again, a stabilized lens is a big help.

 

This is very good news for Nikon owners interested in sports and wildlife photography.

Who knows the new lens features? If it advices to turn Off the VR on a tripod, or even on a monopod, how that would work for you?

 

Depending on the sport, you need to use much faster shutter speed to freeze the action. Older Nikon VR is best in range of 1/8 to 1/60 sec, so shooting sports like Chess Games, Arm Wrestling, Weight Lifting, perhaps would be appropriate to use.

re: mirror slap. it is a non-factor in picture sharpness. it has been proven countless times that the slap only occurs after the image has been taken.

 

re: monopod. anything that can help you steady yourself during photos is a plus. you didn't say if you shoot film or digital. if you shoot digital, then the chances of detectable movement increase even more. i've heard of people saying they can hand hold 400mm lenses and get sharp shots at speeds of 125th of a sec, but i'd bet most humans need the shutter speed to match the FL to get decent shots, so your 400 means that 1/600th of a sec is the "safe zone".

 

i don't shoot monster lenses, but if i relied on them to make a living, i'd either get a camera with SR, or the lens that has it.

Thanks to all for the interesting feedback. I am envious of those who can handhold the big guns.....I can't.

 

As far as VR on the monopod/tripod - it is my understanding that the old VR (like on the 70-200) requires it to be off for tripod. Apparently the new version actually does work well on a mono/tripod.

 

I guess I will have to give it some more thought.

 

Thanks to all

I assume the new lens uses VR II (second generation VR). This VR has 2 modes - Normal mode for hand-held movement, and Active mode for mechanical vibration. I'm not sure how sophisticated these modes are, but Active is intended for monopod/tripod use.

I can hand hold a 400 2.8 but not for a whole football game. I do not know anyone who shoots with VR when photographing sports action. In most cases you are shooting at shutter speeds of 1/500 and higher to stop motion and VR or IS will not help you.

<I>I do not know anyone who shoots with VR when photographing sports action. In most

cases you are shooting at shutter speeds of 1/500 and higher to stop motion and VR or IS

will not help you.</i><P>

 

Lots of (probably most) pro sports photographers shoot with Canon IS teles and they use

IS, even at high shutter speeds. So do lots (probably most) bird photographers these days

(go to a place like the Bosque del Apache refuge in autumn and you will see probably

10-15 Canon superteles for every Nikon -- and they all use IS as well). Put simply, you

are

wrong to think that you don't benefit from stabilization at '1/500 or higher' if you are

shooting with a big tele. In real life, it can help considerably -- even on a good tripod.

My experience with a 500mm lens suggests that you need to be shooting above maybe

1/2000 or 1/2500 before the benefits of IS become negligable.<P>

 

As I said earlier, putting VR in the 'big glass' is very welcome news for Nikon afficionados.

It's a pity (and a bit of a mystery) why they didn' do this years ago.

Here's a paragraph from the Nikon press release that may be of interest. Note how they

say "a tripod mode in the camera." I wonder if that's only the new D3?

 

"These new super-telephoto lenses are equipped with Nikon?s VR II Vibration Reduction

system that minimizes image blur caused by camera shake and offers up to four stops of

compensation for clean, crisp images. When using Nikon?s VR function, photographers can

view a stabilized image through the viewfinder and therefore are able to compose their

pictures naturally and with greater accuracy. A Tripod mode in the camera reduces

vibration that may occur at shutter release when shooting with a super-telephoto lens

attached to a tripod."

??? (scratching head). I don't know what that means. Might be a typo in the release. They might be referring instead to VR Active mode in the lens. Or maybe the new bodies do have a "tripod mode". ???

Apparently, it's a focusing mode when using live view in the new D3 and D300. Here's

what Nikon says:

 

"he D300?s LiveView feature offers two modes for confirming subjects and composition on

the new 920,000-dot, high-resolution 3-inch LCD monitor while shooting. The Tripod

mode is designed for precise focus and accuracy when the camera is on a stable platform

and the subject is not moving. In this mode, the camera focuses on the subject using

focal-plane contrast and any point on the LCD screen can be selected as the focus point

for the picture. The second mode, called Handheld mode, allows photographers to use the

camera?s conventional TTL focusing system, with all 51-points and 15 cross-type points

available. When using this mode, the camera activates focusing immediately when the

shutter button is pressed, to ensure accurate focus."

 

Doesn't seem to help the OP much. Just can't envision how this would work using a super

long telephoto.

Active mode is NOT for tripod use. It is for shooting from a moving vehicle such as from a helicopter or a boat.

Thanks, Ilkka. So Active mode addresses "external" mechanical vibration, not "internal" mechanical vibration. Correct?

Essentially, the active mode is for when the camera itself is not stationary.

Camera shake is the primary cause of unsharp pictures up to about 3x the "inverse focal length" rule, and VR is there to counteract camera shake. A monopod only provides about 1 stop of shake reduction. Long lenses tend to shake even on heavy tripods due to flex in the system and the effect of even a slight breeze. Furthermore, nature photography frequently requires shutter speeds on the order of 1/100 - slow even for a tripod under real-world conditions. I find that the long lens on my video camera, equivalent to 800mm, is better with VR on than without it.

Ken said, "When using Nikon?s VR function, photographers can view a stabilized image through the viewfinder..."

 

If you read the manual for a VR lens, you find that Nikon VR operates in at least two modes. The "normal" mode is fully active only at the time of exposure. It provides some stabilization in the viewfinder but not to the full extend. The "active" mode is fully active once the shutter release is half-pressed. The full stabilization causes a "slip-stick" action which can be visually unsettling when using the camera by hand. It works well to quench vibrations on a tripod (or monopod) where normal motions do not exceed VR's action limits.

Well, I didn't say that, but no matter. So from this is sounds like Active mode would help with

vibrations on a tripod/monopod. :-)

What Mark Chappell didn't mention was that he, and others, defected to Canon, because Canon offers IS on its big guns -- and until now, Nikon has not. Mark is a sharp guy and an outstanding bird photographer.

Edward, which VR lens are you talking about? They behave differently vs. viewfinder stabilization bf actual exposure.

Can I tell you something? this thread just confused my already weak knoledge on the subject. Now I have to go back and study my manual again... thank you all! :)

 

I thought:

 

active mode: camera and/or subject moving;

 

normal mode: camera and subject still, hand held or monopod;

 

no VR: tripod (maybe).

 

Now, as for the "mirror slap" in critical lighting contition, my D200 has a shutter delay funcion of some tenths of a second starting from the moment the mirror is lifted. I tested it on my 300/f4 with noticeable results.

 

Now I have to go back to my manual for another very boring non-VR reading session. :(

Just to be sure you need to realize that there are different features in the different lenses. For example the 80-400 had different modes for full stabilization the whole time shutter button is half-depressed or during exposure only. The 200-400 VR was the first which Nikon advertised as having tripod compatible VR.

I'm confused, too. Maybe I'm being naive, but it seems intuitive to me that movement of the

camera/lens system - whether by an unsteady hand, by rocking of a boat, or by wind - is all

the same. The whole unit is moving around, and this is what Normal mode (traditional) VR/IS

compensates for.

 

So what kind of movement is Active mode VR intended to address?

 

Or maybe Active is intended to address the same type of movement problem, except it

compensates throughout the exposure. I'm not sure.