Vignetting on Eos 5D

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by riza_alirahman, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Recently bought Cannon 5D with 24-105 IS lens, and found that vignetting are noticeable in 24mm FL, this become more obvious when i attached CPL filter. (See attached sample). Back to Canon Reps. in my Country and Regional, and they all suggest me to use Focal length higher than 24, or using Fstop higher than 8 to avoid vignet. Anyone have any idea about my problem ? how come this Expensive Camera, has this silly problem ? I know this is the consequence of being Full frame, all the explanation and reasoning i already receive from Canon Office, Asia Pacific region. But Still, my simple question is remain un answered, how come Canon release such "defect" product ? No further response of my email regarding this from Canon. Im a freelance Oil company facility photographer, and surely I need wide angle photographs, but now my new Eos 5D are unuseable, vignetting from my point of view are not acceptable.
    00Gq9A-30421984.jpg
     
  2. Hi,

    Quite a few 5D users have spotted this fault. For anyone to say use f8 or higher is just plain stupidity. The camera has a fault. It should be returned to the supplying dealer for a FULL no quibble refund.

    Cheers Steve (UK)
     
  3. "how come Canon release such "defect" product ? "<p>It's a fact of life (photography) for wide lenses, larger apertures, and full-frame......digital and film.
     
  4. When using CPL FIlter.
    00Gq9Z-30422284.jpg
     
  5. ALL lenses vignette. It's just a matter of degree. The larger the format, the faster the lens and the shorter the focal length, the worse the vignetting is.

    Vignetting is due to a number of factors including basic optics (no way around that one), lens construction (if you make it really big, really heavy and really expensive you can eliminate that factor) and sensor design (for digitals).

    If it gets worse when you add a filter, you're using the wrong filter. Get a thinner one.

    The answer - digitally correct the images.
     
  6. how come this Expensive Camera, has this silly problem ?
    Your camera doesn't have a problem, your lens has a "problem." If the problem were with the camera, stopping down or using a filter would have no effect.
     
  7. Yes agreed Bob, so my conclusion is, when using Eos 5D: 1. Avoid shorter Focal length. 2. Avoid large Aperture 3. Avoid using regular filter, (look for thin one). 4. If still viggent occures, digitally correct the images. For me, this is too much for a pro camera such EOS 5D. My previous US$800 camera Konica Minolta Dynax 5D, using Super wide Tamron 11-18mm, f.4. With regular CPL hoya. No vignett at all. But well, Full frame Camrea is my wrong choice i guess.
    00GqAd-30422584.jpg
     
  8. "Your camera doesn't have a problem, your lens has a "problem." If the problem were with the camera, stopping down or using a filter would have no effect."

    Mike I tried to mount my 24-105mm L IS lens to my friend's EOS 20D, No vignetting at all, even using CPL Filter.

    So its the Sensor of EOS5D is too large (aiming for full frame).
    Canon should produce Lens larger than 77mm ring to overcome this i guess., what do you think.
     
  9. Paying a lot of money for a pro camera won't change the laws of physics.

    If you have PhotoShop CS2, you can get rid of the vignetting with a simple adjustment in Bridge or with the Lens Correction filter.
     
  10. It is starting to look as if Canon's lens designers are re-setting their priorities for digital, to put most of the emphasis on sharpness and less on controlling vignetting, CA and distortion. That's reasonable, because although sharpening algorithms can compensate for the effect of the anti-aliasing filter, they won't compensate for a lens with poor sharpness, whereas vignetting, CA, and distortion can all be corrected easily during post-processing. Indeed, vignetting is the easiest to correct, because no remapping of pixels is required - the only downside is a small reduction in dynamic range.
     
  11. >>Mike I tried to mount my 24-105mm L IS lens to my friend's EOS 20D, No vignetting at all, even using CPL Filter.<<

    Of course, because the 20D FRAME is ***CROPPED***! So, the edges are cutoff by the crop.

    As for CPL filters, more effect is visible at corners when using a POLA on a wide angle lense. That means you cover a huge chunk of skies and the polarizer affect the image differently within the frame. Jsut try taking a picture of the sky using a pola filter on a super-wide lens with sun at your left, back, etc... You'll see how each angle is affected by the polarizer in different ways/degrees.
     
  12. "But Still, my simple question is remain un answered, how come Canon release such
    "defect" product ? No further response of my email regarding this from Canon."

    Like others have said, the 5D does not vignette, your lens does. Actally the correct term is
    light fall-off. All wide zooms and wide primes exhibit exhibit fall-off, although zooms
    suffer more than primes. I have the same problem on my EOS 3, Elan 7NE and FM3A.
    However, once the slide is mounted or the neg printed, the edges are cropped so you may
    not notice light fall-off. With a DSLR people view the entire frame on a computer. If
    you actually print an 8 x 10 or 11 x 14 you won't notice it, just like film.

    Incidendally, I have a 5D and 24-105 4L USM and have yet to notice light fall-off in the
    thousands of images I've taken. Normally the wide end of a zoom is used for sweeping
    views and is stopped down to F8 to F16 for max DOF. It's an incredible camera and lens
    combo, but it's a tool that requires basic knowledge and skills to get the most from it. If
    you always need to shoot 24mm at F4, I suggest the EF 24 2.8 or EF 24 1.4L USM. Both
    have less light fall-off and are clean by F4.
     
  13. "It is starting to look as if Canon's lens designers are re-setting their priorities for digital, to put most of the emphasis on sharpness and less on controlling vignetting, CA and distortion. That's reasonable, because although sharpening algorithms can compensate for the effect of the anti-aliasing filter, they won't compensate for a lens with poor sharpness, whereas vignetting, CA, and distortion can all be corrected easily during post-processing. Indeed, vignetting is the easiest to correct, because no remapping of pixels is required - the only downside is a small reduction in dynamic range."

    agreed, those corrections are simply part of my workflow (my 35L vignettes, my 70-200IS vignettes, my 50 1.4 vignettes, my 17-40 vignettes, all of them on film as well as digital). It is possible to make lenses that don't vignette in normal use but I would find the compromises unacceptable. Whereas I find moving a slider during RAW conversion very acceptable. If I was a snooty artiste who required perfection directly out of camera with no post-processing, well... Perhaps try large format?

    BTW all the reviews of the 24-105 mention this pretty prominently, and it was batted around for weeks when the lens was announced.
     
  14. Here's a shot taken with the 24-70L at 24mm. No light fall off is visible.
    00GqDr-30423584.jpg
     
  15. Giampi,

    Either your image wasn't shot at f/4, or it was cropped, or heavily processed.

    The "problem" isn't with the 5D, it's a problem with all wide angle lensesin particular and with lenses in general, and with lenses when used at large apertures. If you stop down this lens the problem is mitigated, as in Giampi's image.
     
  16. I must be asleep. Giampi's image is from the 24-70. Duh.
     
  17. Here's another image. Again, no fall-off visible with 24-70L at 24mm on the 5D. Sometimes, with sun directly behind you (or wihin a 45 degree angle of your back) it is possible to experience slight, visible light fall off.
    00GqGs-30425884.jpg
     
  18. Neither of these two images are cropped or processed other than to reduce them for PN and minimal USM. They were shot with the 5D and 24-70L, not the 24-105 but, they were posted to illustrate the point that it is NOT the camera/sensor, it's the lens.

    Once again, light fall off is a LENS issue as old as photography itself. Nothing new.
     
  19. Riza -- it's not the camera, it's the lens. Of course it doesn't happen on a 20D, you're
    viewing only the center of the lens.

    The 24-105 already has a reputation from a number of reviews for vignetting on FF cameras.
    You could buy a "pro" 1Dmk2 and you still will get vignetting from that lens wide open.
     
  20. I just bought a Ferrari and now I find you have to run it on premium gas and it only gets 12mpg, plus it's $600 for a tune up. My old Ford ran fine on regular, gave me 30mpg and a tune up was $49.95.

    Why does Ferrari make defective cars?
     
  21. Why is vignetting such a hard fact of photography to accept?

    I'd say for those who complain about vignetting, you should switch over to shooting fashion. I always increase the vignetting affect to emphasize the model! : )

    I wish canon makes L lenses for vignetting-crazed fashion photographers!
     
  22. "I wish canon makes L lenses for vignetting-crazed fashion photographers!"

    You can buy or make a filter for that if you don't want to PS.
     
  23. I use the 5D and have vignetting with wide angle lens. However I shoot in RAW and convert in PS CS2 Bridge which lets you correct for the vignetting when you convert. You set it up and save the conversion settings, and the problem is solved.

    I use a setting of +15 (Vignetting) for the Canon 17-40 and the Sigma 15-30 to eliminate it.
     
  24. I'm with Felix, I use vignetting to my advantage...

    JJ
     
  25. BTW, at 24mm you will likely need a thin filter. IS yours such as filter?
     
  26. Riza,

    It is not the camera's fault. The internet fear of worse vignetting on digital does not seem to have panned out.

    The 24-105 is the problem not the 5D. Giampi's pictures show that a different lens will produce an image without vignetting at the same focal length and the same aperture. It is not intrinsic to the focal length/aperture combination. Rectilinear lenses typically exhibit cos^4 light fall off which becomes noticable in very wide angle lenses. Lenses typically exhibit greater vignetting wide open (due to design limitations not pure physics). The 24-70/2.8 exhibits virtually no vignetting even wide open. The 24-105/4 IS exhibits significant vignetting at 24mm especially wide open. The vignetting goes away for other focal lengths.

    The polarizer image certainly seems to indicate that your filter is causing vignetting. Try a thin filter.
     
  27. If I was a snooty artiste who required perfection directly out of camera with no post-processing, well... Perhaps try large format?
    Light falloff with very-wide-angle lenses is also there with large format. In fact, there are very-expensive center filters (which have a neutral density gradient from the center to the edges) to help compensate for it.
     
  28. riza, try to find a copy of the Canon 17-40/4 L (you may have to test a couple to find a really stellar copy) and use an ultra-thin filter. that should do the trick on the wider end for you.

    i have the 24-105 on a 5D, my fav lens by far nowadays, but it does show very slight vignetting at 24-end, thus I try not to use it thereabouts.
     
  29. >>Quite a few 5D users have spotted this fault.<<

    Let me ask you this: when people shoot film do they fault the film for light fall off?


    >>For anyone to say use f8 or higher is just plain stupidity.<<

    Geez! After what you just posted you actually call other people stupid?
     
  30. A lot have been said and I won't add anymore. Except that I made some test shots with 50mm 1.4 on 5D. At F1.4 to F2.8, the lens also showed vignetting when I shot a cloudness bluesky without any filter. I accept this as I've been facing this kind of phenomenon since I started in film photography when I was 20 years younger. It is the fun of using learned skills and adapting tricks and treats that make photography fun, even more in the era of digital.
     
  31. I thank you all for the valueable response. I can see all response has their own background, and point of view., and i need to try to accept.,

    Its might be because my knowledge of photography is not that deep.
    Since the first time i use film camera (konica minolta 500xi) for 8 Years, then upgrade to digital to Konica Minolta Dynax 5D, I never saw vignetting, (even using Tamron 11-18mm with CPL), so when i got assignment from an oil company to photograph their facility, i then look for the world best digital camera and my refference goes to Canon Eos 5D, with the best pair lens 24-105mm IS.

    With this high class equipment my expectation is much better camera feature and far much better image, (it is indeed), but this vignetting issues suddenly appear.
    And all refference suggest me the work around way to avoid this from shooting angle, to the usage of PS.

    Intrested to what Bob mentioned, quote:

    just bought a Ferrari and now I find you have to run it on premium gas and it only gets 12mpg, plus it's $600 for a tune up. My old Ford ran fine on regular, gave me 30mpg and a tune up was $49.95.
    Why does Ferrari make defective cars?

    The end result of the Car is: Ferrari can run lot faster and more convinient than Ford, so additional bucks will be allright for me.

    The comparisson might should be:
    My Cannon 5D run out of Battery in 400 Shots, and My old Minolta can last 800 shots. Canon battery is twice expensive than Minolta.
    I will not consider this as a defect as long as the Image is 4 times better than Minolta.

    What i feel was, My New Ferrari gets vibrate when reaching 100MPH and above, while my old Ford can run up to 120MPH with no vibration.
    For 12mpg, plus it's $600 for a tune up, i would say this is a defect products.

    And suggestions come to me not to drive more than 120MPH,
    (thats for not to use below f8 and below 24mmFL)

    Avoid take a Highway.
    (avoid shooting pale blue sky as the top edges of the image)

    Try to enjoy the vibration by turning the loud music, and use the vibration as the advantages of a music beat.
    (to use vignetting as advantages of the image)

    or If i want to look stylish, look for racing tyre not more than 4inch thick.(thats for thin Filter)

    Or put a vibrator to compensate the actual speed vibration so it will not noticeable (for the use of PShop).

    Apologize if any of my thought are unexceptable, it is really what i feel right now.
    I guess i need to adjust my photography knowledge and try to understand that higher equipment required higher work around skill.
     
  32. A more apt automotive analagy would be:

    My Ford has a fairly-smooth ride and little vibration when going at its top speed of 110 mph. My Ferrari has a bumpy ride and a lot of vibration when going its top speed of 170 mph. My Ferrari must be defective.
     
  33. Please take a look at my photos at http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/40D/index.adp showing some extreme
    vignetting? The photos are not much to look at. I only took them to show to Canon. Do you think there's a problem
    with the camera or lens or is "normal"?
     
  34. [[Do you think there's a problem with the camera or lens or is "normal"]]

    from your photos:

    [[This photo was taken with a polarizer and UV filter attached to the lens.]]

    Your problem is that you're stacking filters. There's no reason for you to be using both a UV and polarizing filter at the same time.
     
  35. Also, there is no reason for you to be posting about 40D problems in a 5D thread that's 2 years old. And there's no reason for you to be posting that many photos in a review of the 40D. You should have started a new thread in the Canon EOS forum.
     
  36. At Last after 3 years waiting..., I know I was right...
    Just released Canon EOS 5D Mark II
    and here is one of the feature related to my above quiries , taken from DP review:

    Image processing features:
    Highlight tone priority
    Auto lighting optimizer (4 levels)
    High ISO noise reduction (4 levels)
    -->Lens peripheral illumination correction (vignetting correction)***

    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos5dmarkii/

    So for anyone who contribute an answer from many phisics theories, any excuse to accept devective lens vignetting
    on old 5D, here are the truth.., even Canon Corp, add Lens peripheral illumination correction (vignetting correction),
    and thats confirms my above matter, that vignetting on old 5D is something that need correction from manufacturer,
    Well i was hoping to get this correction on old 5D, but, better late than never. :)
    Thank you all, lets close this case and its time to upgrade to 5D mark II.
     

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