Velvia 50 - A penny for your thoughts!

<p>As a young guy, I've pretty much taken up photography at the boom of the digital era. Lately I've dabbled in film and I must say, I love the Velvia look. The next step is trying to achieve the same feel with digital. Whilst Velvia is nice, it does have its limitations. I've done my research and without wanting to flog a dead horse, I'd rather approach it a little differently. That is why I posted in this forum. Without wanting to sound rude, I am of the opinion that there are a few older and wiser shooters in here that have used velvia 50 or RVP extensively in their youth. What I would like is a subjective opinion on the colour range of this film. I have my own opinions, but would love to see what people who know this film stock inside out think. This would help extensively in my "quest" for a nice looking, saturated and almost "painted" image setting. I know I will not find the golden bullet. I think I've come close, but am still happy to look and learn.<br>

If you could please give me your opinion on how you think velvia 50/rvp reacts to these colours, it would be appreciated!<br>

Magenta<br>

Red<br>

Orange<br>

Yellow<br>

Green<br>

Cyan<br>

Blue</p>

<p>I agree, but I can come very close I think! If not, then it would certainly help me in creating a very vivid setting with a distinctly individual look.</p>

<p>I second What Les has just said. Film is film Digital is Digital. They meet at times but the thing is with film every type is different Velvia 100 is nothing like the 50 and so on. Many people say that Slide film is the closest to what Digital looks like. I am not one of those many.</p>

<p>I am aware of these issues guys and I appreciate the responses, but if you can please address how velvia rvp/50 reacts to the colours listed above, I'd be very appreciative.</p>

<p>You can get a rough approximation by shooting a neutral grey scale, and figuring out the color curves.<br>

But the real uniqueness of films is the inter-layer effects, where when you get close to one of the six corners of the color hexagon, colors get pulled closer to that corner. This is a more non-linear transform.<br>

There are companies that make a living selling post-processors to simulate this effect.<br>

There are also companies that make a living selling post processors that reverse the effect of Ektachrome fading (Applied Science Fiction division of Kodak).</p>

 

<p>Thank you John. Have looked into those companies, being Nik and Allien Exposure. In my limited experience, neither look anything like Velvia. I found I could emulate them quite easily with photoshop and lightroom (where curves are not used).<br>

Thankyou Les. Let us hypothesis a "daylight" situation. How do you find various colours reacting? Are greens strong and of a particular hue? Are yellows swaying towards another colour?</p>

 

<p>You should also know that the Velvia 50 available today is not the same Velvia 50 that us "older and wiser shooters" used in our youth. I've used the old Velvia 50, Velvia 100F, Velvia Pro, and now the new Velvia 50. They are all different to some degree. Finally, a question like this can't really be answered verbally. Trying to describe how strong the greens are and their hue, or the yellows swaying towards another color, can't be done verbally and have it mean something sufficient for you to then go to your computer and emulate the film.</p>

<p>Only thing I can say is shoot a few rolls have them processed at a reliable place and project them decide for yourself.</p>

<p>Thanks Stephen - I totally understand you. What I am trying to do I guess is gather a general feeling or sentiment. As to whether it will match Velvia, well, it is extremely unlikely. I think this thread would be handy tfor people to read how velvia photographs anyway.<br>

From my limited experience, I find purples to be pleasantly bold and rich, greens to lighten a little bit and saturate very vividly and reds to almost darken and solidify with saturation.</p>

 

<p>Thanks Larry, I have done so already. Now I'd like to compare my thoughts with other, more experienced users.</p>

<p>You may look on Flickr.</p>

<p>http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=Velvia</p>

<p>Buy a 5 pack of Velvia, and go around town shootinmg comparison shots with Digital. Then, you will know.<br>

Honestly, I am not sure their are many Velvia veterans left in this forum. Most have moved on to DSLR's. Yes, a few notable old Kodachrome users here, some Elite Chrome 100 fans, and some neg shooters, but I have been here since maybe 2004 or so, and cant recall any regular Velvia fan regular posters. Maybe you would have better luck at apug.org or the Flickr.com Group "I Shoot Film."</p>

<p>The way Velvia looks is not just a function of how it handles colour, but also of a very limited dynamic range. Are you going to want to throw away nearly 50% of the dynamic range of your dslr to emulate a film? I like Velvia 50 a lot, probably used it for 5000 exposures a year for more than ten years, but having to squeeze everything into 4.5 stops or thereabouts isn't something I miss. To me that intensely contrasty performance is a bigger characteristic of Velvia 50 than how it responds to different colours. </p>

<p>A further complicating factor is the fact that Velvia reacts to colours differently according to the angle (strength ) of light. in low light it will pick up the slightest hints of colour in the light and exaggerate it. In strong midday light it is surprisingly accurate. In strong low light it will accentuate the yellow side of the spectrum. In short, what you're thinking of as a relatively simple "formula" is in reality a large and complex matrix with an overlay of limited contrast. Getting values for the matrix should be fun since they are entirely subjective and I'd hazard a guess that you won't find enough people to fill in a valuable matrix to arrive at anything like a consensus. People can't give you what you want because there isn't a single answer that applies all the time for any colour. </p>

<p>Just to be sure that I'm getting my point across properly you could take a carefully scanned and corrected Velvia slide, put it up on a calibrated screen and compare the result with a dslr shot taken of the same subject at the same time. Then see what you have to do to the dslr shot to get it close to the Velvia scan. In theory those actions are your formula. Problem is that when you repeat the exercise in slightly different conditions, the same formula won't deliver the same result. </p>

<p>And of course this is why software providers have found it difficult to make something that emulates Velvia consistently. </p>

<p>NEW Velvia 50 is the Panf+ of Color Slide film.</p>

<p>Thanks for the extensive response, David. That is a very similar conclusion that I came to after using the better known plugin programs. Some autumn scenes will come out great and some macros of roses would render them big red blobs of nothing. This is when I realised I would like to come up with my own formula.<br>

As to whether I mind crushing shadows and ramping up the contrast? Sure, I love it. ;)</p>

<p>Maybe do this... Shoot Velvia 50 in a film camera and just get it right from the beginning.... Sorry just a thought.</p>

<p>I do Larry. That is not the point though. The fact is, that it is expensive, scanning is difficult and more importantly- it will help people with their digital workflow. Not to mention that there is nothing to say that this film will be around forever. I personally find the plugins to be too simplistic. They focus on saturation and tone curves, when I feel that hue and luminance play an important role as well. The aim of this thread is not for me to find the "golden bullet" as I explained earlier, but to bounce a few ideas around and maybe come up with a setting that can maybe fool one or two people every now and then. ;)</p>

<p>Call me A Ludite but I don't understand. I use a scanner for both Color and B&W film but my work flow is mostly B&W and when I do use Color it is mostly Slide film and then I put the slide on a light table next to me as I scan and adjust.<br>

With Negative film I well just try to get it the way I remember shooting it. With B&W it is how i thought I saw it with what makes the film I used add to it.<br>

Sorry I will be long dead before people say OH wow that looks just like Velvia 50 from 2010 and the know what they are talking about.. :)</p>

<p> Larry</p>

<p>Ah, yes, but the point is not for people to say "that looks just like Velvia 50", but moreso for people to say "wow, those colours are really something". Personally, I find Velvias colour palette desirable. I wish to borrow some "ideas" from it for my digital photos. That is why I am talking in generealisations. Sure, I can ramp up tone curves in lightroom and set the camera control to vivid, etc, etc, but that's only half the story.</p>

<p>I back off I am too old for this... Read that as I am out of my element. It was nice though knowing I have another self induced limitation. :)</p>

<p>I don't always (seldom) shoot color but when I do I shoot velvia 100 (not F) The color blows me away. Digital color looks a bit flat in comparison.</p>

<p>Michael, I usually buy my film from B&H, and I don't think they are carrying velvia 100 in pro packs anymore (just singles). They have 100F, but like you, I don't like to use that film.</p>

<p>Funny I find the 100F perfect for situations where shade needs to be black and not that off shade of blue it gets with other slide films yet not blow out the highlights to make it black..</p>

<p>personally, i'd like to know how to how to simulate that digital 'look' with film : B</p>

<p>I would find it interesting to see your side-by-side comparison of your velvia scan & DSLR imitation of it. </p>