david_h._hartman Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I just received a Nikon F3HP from KEH.com. Since this is a used camera how can I tell if it is a gray market or Nikon USA? Is there a any way other than by serial number? As far as I know the product is identical, Nikon USA or Gray. I called Nikon Service and they told me the only way is it to send it in and they will check the serial number at that time. The camera is very clean to the extent that it does not appear to have had film in it. It�s about ten years old by the serial number. I�ve heard this scenario once before but I didn�t really believe that Nikon USA was this customer hostile. I�ve only purchased 22 new Nikons. Four from EPOI and 18 from Nikon USA but of course they don�t care. Does Nikon USA take e-mail seriously? Has anyone ever received this information from information from Nikon USA like this? I know there are other places to get the F3HP repaired I�m not interested in this possibility in this thread. Donning my flak jacket, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik_loza Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Just curious: Why would it matter on a 10 year-old camera, particularly one in as good condition as this one would seem to be? Warranties aren't transferrable and F3's rarely malfunction in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cochran Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 It matters because, not only does Nikon USA not do warranty service on grey market cameras, but they don't do ANY service on grey market cameras, no matter whether you offer to pay them or not. <p> That said, the F3 is pretty reliable, and there are quite a few independent people who will work on the camera whether it's grey or US. Only if you have a really tough problem that the independent shops won't handle would you need to send it to Nikon US, and in the unlikely event your camera had such a serious problem, you might be better off buying a "new" used F3, anyway, because Nikon would charge a pretty penny for the service. <p> Sorry I don't know how to answer the original question. My suspicion is that Nikon US is the only one who can tell for certain, by looking up the serial number in their records. It's a shame they don't seem to be willing to give you the info up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I don't know, Dave. What I suspect is that Nikon USA may have decided to try to enforce this "we won't work on gray cameras" policy relatively late in the production run / life of the camera. They may only have s/n records (gray vs. USA) for the last 5-10 years. To maximize the Fear/Uncertainty/Dread, they won't tell you this up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saikat.pathak Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Hi Dave, sorry I cannot answer your question. Just wanted to congratulate you on your new purchase. So, finally you got yourself the F3. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Worst case is you may send the camera for a CLA in Japan. Nikon in Tokyo will work on any Nikon manufactured: the shipping cost is a bear, but all will be well in the new year. The salary paid to the corps of staff at Nikon USA makes all Nikon USA imported items a bit more than the rest of the world pays (it is a self-inflicted overhead) that Nikon in Japan has authorized. It sort of makes sense: two items come in for repair. One guy wants it fixed fast (it is a grey-market body.) Another guy wants his camera body [a Nikon USA item] fixed fast as well. Why should the second guy have to wait in the que for service to be done on a 'grey-market' body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ky2 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 <p><i>"It matters because, not only does Nikon USA not do warranty service on grey market cameras, but they don't do ANY service on grey market cameras, no matter whether you offer to pay them or not."</i></p> <p>-- Even if that is true, you could still take it to a local shop. They'll probably be cheaper than Nikon too.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Thanks for the responses. I�ll have to reread this tomorrow as my brain is shutting down. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Dave,<p>Congratulations! That's a case of NAS being VERY GOOD!<p>As for the repair issues, I don't think that Nikon really cares about an old model such as the F3. Their policy didn't seem to come into play until recently. I had my 20 year old F3 serviced by Nikon USA without any problems. I had purchased it second hand in Canada. However, the original purchaser was from California, so maybe it is an official US import? Anyway, it doesn't seem that Nikon cared whether the F3 was gray market or not.<p>That was my first servicing after about 18 years of use - and only because I bent the aperture stop down lever from badly mounting an 85mm f/2 AIS lens (BEWARE if you own this lens - there is a very heavy projection on the back that will ruin your camera if you're not careful). So, this may not be an issue for your camera for the next 10-15 years, at which point I'm sure Nikon USA REALLY won't care about the gray/USA issue for this model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Because the Nikon F3HP was the professional standard for close to 2 decades, there are literally dozens, if not hundreds of places that can service them other than Nikon. And, BTW, I would NEVER use the manufacturer to service an out of warranty camera if I could avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Doug:<p>Sorry to disagree with you, but if you live in a medium-small town like I do (Syracuse, NY), then the local repair guys don't necessarily have the skills to repair the F3. My F3 was in the shop for 3 months while the locals tried to repair my broken aperture linkage. When I finally got it back, my flash sync was completely gone! The cost had only been $300 + 3 months of F3 deprivation (oh HORROR!)<p>In frustration, I sent the camera to Nikon, who made it perfect for $250. Nikon USA does give excellent service and repairs. For that reason, when I bought my macro lenses new, I bought the USA version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 If I lived in Syracuse, I'd send it to one of the many pro-oriented repair shops in New York city. Unfortunately, the two I used, are not in business presently (Marty Forscher and Ken Hansen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Today I called Nikon again to find out if the used Nikon F3HP I received from KEN.com was Nikon USA imported or Gray Market. After asking several times and in different ways if the Nikon technical customer service representative could get someone on the phone or give me a telephone number of someone who would give this information I was told, <u>"No one in the company will divulge this information over the telephone."</u> I asked, "No one?" and I was told "Thats correct." I then asked if John Shaw called, if Nikon would give this information to him and was told that Nikon would NOT give this information over the phone to John Shaw or anyone.<br> <br> Furthermore I was assured that the only way to gain this information was to send the equipment to Nikon and that Nikon would check the serial numbers at that time. I expressed the opinion that this is a "double cross" and a "customer hostile policy." He thanked for my "diligence" as I informed the Nikon representative that I had purchased at least 22 new Nikons and did not wish to purchase a used gray market camera. <br> <br> The Nikon technical customer service representative then told that there was a way to tell when buying used equipment. I could, "ask for a copy of the original warranty" from the seller. I protested that this information is "not generally available." and he said it was. I told him I had a television box in the attic with all the boxes from Nikon products that I buy and that I had a file of Nikon warranties but that most people do not keep such things.<br> <br> I assured him that I under stood that he did not set this policy and thanked him for his time.<br> <br> It appears very clear that this is the policy and that it is enforced. I consider it very customer hostile. One could speculate why Nikon USA holds this policy but to what purpose?<br> <br> My options now appear to be drive the 90 to 100 miles (145 to 160 Kilometers) to Torrance California and present the camera, something I will not do, take my chances or return the camera to KEH.<br> <br> Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread,<br> <br> David H. Hartman.<br> <br> Advice welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stone Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I thought that you lived in the valley, a hop down the 405, and you'd be in Torrance. I guess that I was wrong. Not that going to Torrance is something to look forward to, irrespective of Nikon, even if you lived in Long Beach. But, even at 100 miles, at least you would know for certain, and be able to put your mind at rest, or ship it back to KEH. While it may not be fun, it would be definitive. You could even stop at the Getty and feel out the F3, or catch an unsuspecting garbage truck with nice candid. As worked up as this has you, it looks like that Torrance trip would be a relief, no matter the outcome. If I lived closer, I'd do it for you, just to see it resolved, as I have wanted to check on something in Torrance for years, a place about a mile south of 405 on Normandy or Western or Crenshaw. It's been a long time since I was there, and I can't remember which street for sure. Anyway that would be a good excuse to go down there. You may never need service with that F3 anyway, which would put you one up on the Torrance gang. Naturally, they would have to somehow find out that they weren't needed just to add icing to the situation. Do you know for sure that Nikon USA is the only resource for the info about whether or not it's a grey market item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_gifford Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I have read and understand your posts about your conversations with Nikon USA... but honestly Dave I would be VERY surprised if Nikon USA had any earthly idea about the import channel used for products made more than six or seven years ago. This whole "go pound sand if you buy grey market" philosophy sprouted at Nikon USA about six or seven years ago, roughly at the time the F5 was introduced. For products originally sold through anyone's retail channels (grey or domestic) before that time, one might reasonably suppose that Nikon USA has no reliable serial number tracking system. Just a thought. And a little note to Nikon USA: turning away requsts for no-charge warranty service on grey market goods makes some sense. It's not great customer service, but it is at least justifiable when you argue that only the official Nikon USA sales channel helps recoup your marketing dollars. BUT... turning away requests for PAID service on grey market goods is plain silly. Have a look in the mirror, please, and take note of the ugly bandage covering the spot where you have cut off your nose to spite your face. Now wake up, smell the java and change that silly policy immediately. (end note to Nikon) Thanks for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Stone Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 "For products originally sold through anyone's retail channels (grey or domestic) before that time, one might reasonably suppose that Nikon USA has no reliable serial number tracking system. Just a thought." Jim, You may be right, I have no info to dispute what you offered. But, I disagree that it's reasonable to assume that. I can think of reasons why Nikon would keep a record of the disposition of every serial number, and I can't imagine why they wouldn't. If that's true, then it would be no trouble at all for Nikon USA to get that info. In fact, today, it may be only a few keystrokes away. Prior to the current policy with regard to grey market items, Nikon USA had no concern over it , but things have changed, and their access to company records would seem childs play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 Well none of my F2(s) ever needed service and only one of my motor drives needed service so I guess I�m just going to say the hell with it and order some accessories. I hope those who think Nikon USA won�t be concerned about repairing a camera that's a number of years old (US or gray) and out of production are right. NAS is about to shut down for a while as all the money I had saved for a super telephoto is or in an hour or so will be blown. I�m going the have to sell something because I want to replenish those savings. I�ve praised the 6x waist level finders so much I can�t return to PHOTO.NET without buying one. I�ll need an AS-17 and an E and R screen. I ordered the camera with a mint M screen. I also ordered an MS-3. It�s very late in the history of film cameras to be buying another but I figure I�d loose as much in depreciation on a D100 in the next two years as this whole outfit will cost. I expect to shoot B&W film long after I stop shooting slide film. Regards, Dave. BTW, anyone have an opinion on ACS in Sherman Oaks? I have a thread running with the same date as this. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_n._wall Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I am confident that there is a very simple answer to this question that does not resort to long drives, heated phone calls to NIKON USA, or anything else. I strongly suspect, in fact am certain, that each F3 body has an identifying mark on it to indicate whether or not it is a USA model. I own two F4 bodies -- one of which is a USA body and the other is not. The USA body has the initials US engraved on the body along with the serial number of the body. The non-USA body does not. Surely the F3 has a similar marking system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 The engraved "US" symbol in front of the serial number on USA models is only from the last few years. I bought my F4 back in 1990 and it is an USA model and has been serviced by Nikon USA, but there is no "US" engraving. Since an F3 can be a 20+ year old camera, I seriously doubt that Nikon has records from that far back on USA model serial numbers. Moreover, unlike DSLRs, many independent repair shops can fix the F3 perhaps for a much lower cost. In the unlikely event that your F3 needs service, I don't think whether it is USA or gray will be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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