Upgrade from Canon 650d to?

Hello everyone

Current Gear a canon 650d, with 18-55, 55-250, and 50 f1.4. Also i have two 430ex speedlites.

My main interests are in weddings/events photography, studio work, sports (a focal length of 200 to 250 on a full frame is enough for my need) and sometimes landscapes.

- I have kept in mind the "beast" 5d iv with a 70-200 2.8 and a 24-70, but unfortunately i can afford only the camera and one of the lenses at the current time.

- Another choice is to go for the mark 4 kit with 24-105, and add a 70-200 2.8. (

- One more option is to look for a lower camera such as the 6d or a crop body with both the 70-200 2.8 and the 24-70 (i dont prefer this option since i want to keep on with my new camera for almost 10 years.)

What u guys advise me to go for?

If i went for the mark 4 with a 70-200 f2.8, what other lens u advise of (a bit cheaper than the canon 24-70)?

Thanks in Advance

Go for option 2.

That 24-70 2.8 will come in time :-)

and don't forget the 100 2.8 Lis macro, and something on the wide end..

Go for option 2.

That 24-70 2.8 will come in time :)

and don't forget the 100 2.8 Lis macro, and something on the wide end..

Thank you

jdebever

ofcourse, a macro is needed :)

The 5D Mark IV would be an excellent choice for a camera body. It has a great focusing system and improved ISO, especially not having the strange banding pattern when pulling things out of the shadows like older Canon bodies had. You will have no regrets if you can afford it. You didn't specify the brand of 70-200 f/2.8, I assume you are going for the Canon which is an excellent lens, but you could look at other brands such as Tamron and Sigma, I get excellent results with the Tamron 70-200mm, but Sigma has been coming out with some excellent lenses.

Also a 24-70mm f/2.8 Canon Mark I or II. The early version is still a solid lens with great build quality but the newer version has a slight edge. But either will do fine. You can pick up a used original version for around $800. These two lenses are a must for weddings and events to start in my opinion. You may want to consider adding a wide angle like the 17-40mm f/4 and perhaps a prime 85mm f/1.4 for portrait work Sigman came out with the 85mm f/1.4 art and I love it, amazing bokeh. But this isn't necessary to start out.

A couple other nice lenses to add to your bag down the road, a Sigma 150-600mm C or Sport for sports and wild life. A Canon 14mm f/2.8 ultra wide prime rocks for wide angle and landscape but this is not going to be a lens that will be missed, it is just nice to have when you have a situation where it is the perfect lens for a few unique shots. Also a fast 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8mm. I have the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 and it creates a magical bokeh, much like the 85mm. I am also enjoying the Canon 40mm f/2.8 STM, just a very sharp lens at any f-stop and it is silent and great for video work too. It is a pancake lens and costs under $200.

But the 24-70mm and the 70-200mm are a must to start and should be enough to get started. It would be nice to add a few lenses though to give you more flexibility.

Sometimes a nice wide angle will allow you to get in on tight spots and is needed for some shots when the need is there, getting in front of the crowd that is blocking your subject and you are forced to be only a couple feet away from the subject because it is the only spot to get the shot.

You may want to consider adding a couple more speed speed-lights for off camera flash and some stands. A couple speed-lights high up on stands to light up a room and use one Speedlight on camera with bounce for indoor work works really nice especially for a reception.

Back to the Canon 5D Mark IV, it has two memory card slots, so you can write to both simultaneously so in the rare event you have a card go bad, you have a backup and you will be so glad you did. You never want to be the photographer that lost all the photos with a card crash.

Are you going to have a backup camera body? If you are the primary shooter, you really should have one.

Just my opinion. Other photographers opinions may vary.

I did buy the 5D IV with 70-200 and have neither anything else EOS system nor regrets. If I want to take wider shots, I grab another camera; for convenience with a zoom: Samsung DSLRs or with primes: Leica.

Do I have lenses to dream of? - Yes! Do I dream of juggling lenses? Not really. Grabbing the other body is faster than changing back and forth all the time.

Ending with a 50mm and 70-200 to start with isn't perfect but how long will it take to save up for a Tamron 24-70? <- Reviews weren't that bad, but better online search for them yourself. The lens is stabilized, distorts more at 24mm, has slower AF and less corner sharpness until stopped down significantly.

Grabbing the other body is faster than changing back and forth all the time.

True that. :)

. . . Current Gear a canon 650d, with 18-55, 55-250, and 50 f1.4. Also i have two 430ex speedlites. My main interests are in weddings/events photography, studio work, sports (a focal length of 200 to 250 on a full frame is enough for my need) and sometimes landscapes. . .

You list your first main interest: “weddings/events photography”.

Responding only to that criterion and assuming that you would be the engaged Wedding or Event photographer (i.e. a professional/paid gig), then you need (at least) two camera bodies and a cache of lenses that provide at least one level of system redundancy with gear of an appropriate and expected level of performance.

Even if you keep the 650D and the two EF-S kit lenses and the 50/1.4 and also buy a 5DMkIV and a 70 to 200/2.8, that kit does not provide adequate system redundancy to (‘professionally’) shoot a wedding or social event.

For one example: if the 5DMkIV goes down, you have nothing adequate to act as a fast standard lens. Moreover the kit overall does not provide any lens/camera combination with a fast aperture at a wide FoV. There are other shortcomings also, these two are mentioned as examples only.

If your desire is to build a 'professional' EOS kit for Weddings and Social Events and you also are restricted by a tight budget, then you must firstly prioritize getting the job done within the worst possible scenario and you should not assume that the most expensive or latest release camera body and lens will not fail, be dropped or stolen, etc.

One first priority LENS for a Wedding and Social Events kit should be a fast STANDARD ZOOM Lens. For a "Full Frame" camera that would be something like a 24 to 70/2.8, but considering the relative high quality high ISO performance of modern DSLRs, then a lens like a 24 to 105/4 is also in consideration. If either of those lenses has the bonus of IS (or equivalent), then that is very useful. On a really tight budget, a cache of fast Prime Lenses can suffice, but the convenience of using a Fast Standard Zoom should not be underestimated.

WW

As WW illustrates, with such a limited budget, you must prioritize. Frankly, your sentiment about a 'forever camera' has no place when building a kit to shoot professionally - ie. when someone is paying you to rely on you to provide them with professional imagery of their un-repeatable (in practical terms) event.

In your shoes (with such a limited budget), I would seriously consider a 5D3 or two (since you could get , and combine that w/ a Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC (or equivalently a 24-105/4), and a Sigma or Tamron 70-200/2.8. If you can afford a 5D4 and a 24-70/2.8L II or 70-200/2.8L IS, then you could alternatively afford 2 used 5D3s and Tamron/Sigma fast zooms. That still doesn't provide complete redundancy, but it provides a LOT of redundancy - and also allows you to shoot a dual camera setup (heavy, but makes for an incredibly effective, complimentary, and even redundant, kit). I (frankly) don't see a way to provide complete redundancy within your budget though. Not unless you are willing to stick w/ a crop setup for the time being.

I, personally, have shot weddings with two cheap lenses and one cheap camera before, and I got lucky. But that's what it was - luck. OTOH, I've shot weddings with 5s and a full set of redundant zooms. On one particular day (when not so lucky ;) ) a bench w/ a faulty leg collapsed under me while I was standing on it, shooting from the back of a ceremony. The 5D w/ the 24-70/2.8 and a 580 hit the ground hard enough to crack the lens in half and smash the 580 to useless debris. What did I do? pulled the remains of the lens, and the flash off, pulled the 24-105/4 out of the bag, mounted it, got up on another bench and resumed shooting. If you can't do that, you aren't properly equipped to bill for the service.

Marcus, let me get this right; with the disabilities of Nelson at the battle of Trafalgar;

("With one eye and one arm gone west,she ran like the devil and she grabbed the rest." George Formby)

, you mixed metaphorically put together a working AK-47 from the damaged remains of 5 lying on the ground, in 10 seconds, and thus saved the platoon.

Marcus, let me get this right; with the disabilities of Nelson at the battle of Trafalgar;

("With one eye and one arm gone west,she ran like the devil and she grabbed the rest." George Formby)

, you mixed metaphorically put together a working AK-47 from the damaged remains of 5 lying on the ground, in 10 seconds, and thus saved the platoon.

LMAO! G-d_it YES! Damn the logic full narrative ahead!

Seriously though, my point is that if you are shooting weddings/events professionally (and lets face it, why else would you want to be shooting events or a wedding? It's not like it's 'fun' or a 'good time' - it may be creatively satisfying, but it's work), you've GOT to have as comprehensive a backup for your core kit as possible. When bad shit happens (and it isn't always preventable), that's all that stands between you and a VERY unhappy client. In a couple of respects I was extremely lucky. It didn't happen when I only had a Rebel and a couple of lenses (albeit that was only once), or a single 35mm camera and that Rebel (trying to straddle film and Digital). - as well, I didn't injure anything but my pride.

In fairness though, it's more akin to swapping magazines (or the barrel?) and pulling off the broken bayonet (afterall, lenses and flashes are interchangeable...one even has a 'bayonet' mount ;) ), the weapon survived intact.

The 5D Mark IV would be an excellent choice for a camera body. It has a great focusing system and improved ISO, especially not having the strange banding pattern when pulling things out of the shadows like older Canon bodies had. You will have no regrets if you can afford it. You didn't specify the brand of 70-200 f/2.8, I assume you are going for the Canon which is an excellent lens, but you could look at other brands such as Tamron and Sigma, I get excellent results with the Tamron 70-200mm, but Sigma has been coming out with some excellent lenses.

 

Also a 24-70mm f/2.8 Canon Mark I or II. The early version is still a solid lens with great build quality but the newer version has a slight edge. But either will do fine. You can pick up a used original version for around $800. These two lenses are a must for weddings and events to start in my opinion. You may want to consider adding a wide angle like the 17-40mm f/4 and perhaps a prime 85mm f/1.4 for portrait work Sigman came out with the 85mm f/1.4 art and I love it, amazing bokeh. But this isn't necessary to start out.

 

A couple other nice lenses to add to your bag down the road, a Sigma 150-600mm C or Sport for sports and wild life. A Canon 14mm f/2.8 ultra wide prime rocks for wide angle and landscape but this is not going to be a lens that will be missed, it is just nice to have when you have a situation where it is the perfect lens for a few unique shots. Also a fast 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8mm. I have the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 and it creates a magical bokeh, much like the 85mm. I am also enjoying the Canon 40mm f/2.8 STM, just a very sharp lens at any f-stop and it is silent and great for video work too. It is a pancake lens and costs under $200.

 

But the 24-70mm and the 70-200mm are a must to start and should be enough to get started. It would be nice to add a few lenses though to give you more flexibility.

Sometimes a nice wide angle will allow you to get in on tight spots and is needed for some shots when the need is there, getting in front of the crowd that is blocking your subject and you are forced to be only a couple feet away from the subject because it is the only spot to get the shot.

 

You may want to consider adding a couple more speed speed-lights for off camera flash and some stands. A couple speed-lights high up on stands to light up a room and use one Speedlight on camera with bounce for indoor work works really nice especially for a reception.

 

Back to the Canon 5D Mark IV, it has two memory card slots, so you can write to both simultaneously so in the rare event you have a card go bad, you have a backup and you will be so glad you did. You never want to be the photographer that lost all the photos with a card crash.

 

Are you going to have a backup camera body? If you are the primary shooter, you really should have one.

 

Just my opinion. Other photographers opinions may vary.

Thank you Mark for your Reply

I am sorry i haven't checked the forum for too long, nor still bought any new camera. I just finished my last year in high school and was to busy.

Anyways,, coming back to our main topic

We will be at least two primary shooters so am not alone

Ofcourse the 150-600 is a future plan. as soon as i get comfortable with the new system i will grab one.

Grabbing the other body is faster than changing back and forth all the time.

I agree. But if I consider another body i would look for another semi-pro dslr or mirrorless that will cost a lot and be above budget!

I'd look for a pre-owned Mk IV, if it has to be one. - I just spotted a nice offer on eBay for 2K6 Euro vs. 3K4 German retail price. - Maybe some cool rich folks are jumping ship to the D850?

I'm not sure how low you could go with your 2nd FF body. - 6D? or 5D Mk. III? I'd plan something like that in the long run or ASAP.

For starting out, I'd try to get the wide lens first. I suppose it will earn your bread and produce the huge prints?

The core of a wedding are shots of the couple or groups. Headshots with flash across the room might be possible with your current long zoom? I guess they 'll be appreciated but unlikely to sell as huge prints? (I'm not in that business.)

Skipping the Canon 70-200 leaves enough money to get a 24-105/4 IS + 35/2 IS for really low light & a Tokina 100/2.8, to be paired with your 50 mm, to get started with studio work or to do formals and engagement sessions.

I'd look for a pre-owned Mk IV, if it has to be one. - I just spotted a nice offer on eBay for 2K6 Euro vs. 3K4 German retail price. - Maybe some cool rich folks are jumping ship to the D850?

I'm not sure how low you could go with your 2nd FF body. - 6D? or 5D Mk. III? I'd plan something like that in the long run or ASAP.

For starting out, I'd try to get the wide lens first. I suppose it will earn your bread and produce the huge prints?

The core of a wedding are shots of the couple or groups. Headshots with flash across the room might be possible with your current long zoom? I guess they 'll be appreciated but unlikely to sell as huge prints? (I'm not in that business.)

Skipping the Canon 70-200 leaves enough money to get a 24-105/4 IS + 35/2 IS for really low light & a Tokina 100/2.8, to be paired with your 50 mm, to get started with studio work or to do formals and engagement sessions.

Unfortunately, i dont prefer getting my cameras and lenses online since i live in oman and the shipping costs are highly expensive.

Thank u for the good lens suggestions. Noted them

I am also thinking about the D850, as a pirmary camera instead of the 5div.

TBH i love canon and their ergonomics. But since i have only one canon full frame lens (50 1.4) i can easily shift to nikon. this change will be critical because i will be getting expensive lenses for either brand that will last with me for YEARS!

Now, am really in confusion what to get. Its obvious that the d850 beats the 5div for sports photography, and for studio work i think there will be no noticable difference.

Either i get the d850 and get all nikon glass, or stick to canon and get the 5div with its glass and wait for a new camera for canon after 5 years.

Your suggestions will help me alot, thanks in adv advance!

i live in oman and the shipping costs are highly expensive.

Out of curiosity I checked DHL's and have to agree 46 Euro for 5kg look nasty. OTOH AFAIK such prices vary depending on where somebody posts a packet. I here benefit a lot from an old world post contract that made parcels from China dirt cheap. According to local rules anything below 22 Euro (including shipping) neither costs VAT nor customs. so a lens cap here or a lens hood there is significantly cheaper to get via mail order from Hong Kong or China than to shop locally (if there were still camera stores around). - Fetching something valuable at the customs office was described as a pain in the behind to me, but I think if it saves you money for an additional lens it might be worth it. - Check tax and customs rates in advance online and do your math. I doubt any shipping can get worse than the 46 Euro I looked up and while they are too much money for an old used film camera, they are less than 1% for a new digital we are dreaming of.

I can't offer a huge contribution to the Canon vs Nikon debate beyond: Sit down and do the math for your final systems; add up the 2 bodies and 7 lenses, mark whose seem more tempting according to reviews.

expensive lenses ... that will last with me for YEARS!