Troll: Have Leica will be HCB.

<b>Have Leica, will be HCB...</b>

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This is intended both as a <u>troll</u> and a cathartic excercise.

So, if you're in a mean mood, <u>just avoid bringing my ancestry

into the conversation</u> and all will be well. On the other hand,

you can just jump to the next thread...

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Some one told me once, in a very diplomatic way, that my photography

was eclectic; that was the way to avoid rubbing in my face that I

lack a definite identifiable style. What this person circumvented

was telling me that my body of work also lacks duende, passion for

the subject and compromise.

<br><br>

When you look at the famous images of one of the "Grandes", you

immediately see a cohesive trait that signs it as the author's work.

Clearing Winter Storm and Moonlight Over Hernandez might be quite

different in subject but both are easily identifiable as being from

AA. Look at the dog images of Elliott Erwitt and then at the

Khruschev/Nixon snap and both have the same caustic humor. You can

see any of Diane Arbus' pathos filled images and they are

unmistakeable. Lesser gods? How about John Sexton? Are his Hoover

Dam images any different in style from his Quiet Light landscapes? I

think they all share the exquisite balance, composition and

extraordinary craftsmanship particular to him. Same thing if you

look at the ellaborate landscape multizonal printing of Eddie

Ephraums.

<br><br>

Where I'm trying to drive to is that with few exceptions, we the

regulars of the Leicaforum, are probably trying to emulate one of

our idols without much success. Pardon me if I'm projecting myself.

<br><br>

I started with my passion for photography very early (age 12 I

think). When in college, I received a Pentax Spotmatic as a gift

from my father and it filled my head with fantasies of Antonioni's

Blow-Up (those of you old enough will know what I'm talking about).

Professional life, marriage and family tamed me and my graphic

inclinations, leading me to the realm of family and travel snaps.

<br><br>

Fairly recently, some 15 years or so, I rekindled the flame by means

of underwater photography --at which I was atrocious- and then

retook the practice of the topside craft.

<br><br>

I rambled through the use of a whizz-bang full auto-everything SLR

and extreme lense; macro, nature, naive portraiture, pretentious

landscapes. Then I found the technical joys of Medium Format. Tried

more serious portraiture, more serious landscapes... <g> At some

point it dawned on me that I wasn't getting good results for lack of

a Large Format camera; here it came the 4x5...!!!

<br><br>

No matter what I did, my photography remained sterile, hollow,

uncompromised.

<br><br>

Enter the rangefinders. It wasn't a Leica at first, but a retina

IIIc that my late father-in-Law gave me. Out into the streets I go.

If they were good enough for the Magnum bunch, could glory be much

far away from me?

<br><br>

Hundreds and hundreds of rolls and boxes of sheet film, my images

have become much better in technique. I've learned to frame, to

compose; learned the subtleties of tonality and light. Lost my

shyness to approach strangers in the street and fire a frame in

their faces; most of the time I am stil not fast enough or stealth

enough but it's no longer a lack of chutzpah.

<br><br>

Why then do my images still are the equivalent of a pop ballad and

not an opera aria?

<br><br>

It just dawned on me this morning that I have a great passion for

photography --I love to shoot film, love the process of creating an

image, really enjoy using my toys- but I haven't established a love

affair with the subject matter. This realization has depressed me

endlessly.

<br><br>

I'm not about to go to the shrink with this... Might profit more

from buying another lens <VBG> besides, that's what this forum is

for no? ;-)

<br><br>

So, what about you?...

Less a troll than a rant.

Neither troll nor rant.

 

Most of us have been or will be in a similar place, Jorge. I recommend Ted Orland's "Fear and Art"

"No matter what I did, my photography remained sterile, hollow, uncompromised."

 

..compared to whose?

Travis, why should he have to compare it? If that's what it feels like to him, that's what it feels like.

If you love the process more than the subject matter then so what? At least you have a passion for your hobby which is more than most can say about most things.

I second that, I feel the same. Plus I'm not a good photographer.

On the other hand, I learned a lot in the past four years and try something different every day with my dSLR and if I like the result I show it around to get some coments on it. Then I try to recreate that with film.

 

The funny thing, I usualy shot my Yashica and Contax SLRs in aperture priority AE and started shooting manual with the Canon D60 :-)

Hablando de los antepasados, te mando este chiste:

 

Q: De donde descienden los Argentinos?

A: Descienden de los barcos!

 

On the topic of your passion for photography but lack of passion for "subject

matter" well I think that's pretty common. It's easy to fall in love with the craft

and the tools. I suppose it's about why you take photos.

 

I only started taking photos after I took a job in Saudi Arabia and was so

dumbfounded by my new environments. Like everyone else the only mental

images I had were of deserts and camels. But the guy that picked me up at

the airport (in the southern city of Abha in December) was wearing a fur parka

and there were wild baboons sitting on the side of the roads. So I bought a

little P/S but the photos just didn't communicate what I was feeling so the next

year (when I moved to Kuwait) I bought a "good camera" -- a Canon AE1-P (in

Tokyo). But somehow the photos still didn't capture the new places and

cultures I was seeing. This eventually led me into a more serious exploration

of photography.

 

And I guess like you I also fell in love with photography itself. But I suppose

deep down I've always felt the need to communicate to "the folks back home"

the cultures I've spend my life living in (after Kuwait is was Oman and after

Oman it was Mexico and now here in Japan).

 

I'm not passionate about some social or political issue but I do have a burning

desire to educated people about what goes on a broader world.

 

As far as style...well I'm still searching....

I was asking Jorge, Jeff.

Oh, and I received this "wonderful" compliment from one of the NG

photographers during a seminar: "You are really a better writer than

photographer." Um...thanks. I think.

 

And the photo editor of GEO had this to say: "I must say I am much more

impressed with the places you have lived and visited that with your

photography." Ouch.

 

Still, I struggle on...but now only for myself.

<I>-I love to shoot film, love the process of creating an image, really enjoy using my

toys- but I haven't established a love affair with the subject matter.

</I><P>

 

You've made a very astute observation. Now, with the benefit of that insight, you can

move forward, should you be able to nurture those connections.

Jorge, I've been very introspective lately, thinking back over the forty plus years of my involvement in photography on a serious level. When I really got serious I was attending a small high school and it seems that I was immediately drafted into shooting for the yearbook. Not the mug shots. The around-the-campus everyday life stuff, the field trips, the sports teams in action. It forced me to learn the nuts and bolts part fast! But over the years I learned to interact with my subjects. Now it seems that I really enjoy being with people, I enjoy the interaction, almost more than the photography. I guess that's why I like this place. There's no longer a neighborhood camera shop with an always full coffee pot, or even a color lab around where you can meet other photographers. The one-hour lab at Walgreens Drugs just doesn't cut it, although it is there 24 hours a day 7 days a week. And my toys? They're probably 10 years older than most of the visitors to photo.net..LOL

 

If there are any folks here under perhaps 30 or 35 and you live in South Florida, or are visiting the area, please get in touch with me ~ preacherpop42 (at) AOL (dot) com. Older is fine too, but I'd like to discover that there are still a few younger people using something other than digital. Now that we're pretty much restricted to meeting other photographers on line it just ain't the same! When you travel, post your plans, try to hook up with others in person. It makes a difference, a BIG difference.

<i>t I'd like to discover that there are still a few younger people using something other than digital.</i><p>

 

I like to discover people who are producing beautiful photographs. I can sit and talk with them for hours about inspiration, vision, why they photograph what they photograph, how they see it their way.

<p>

I guess that's a big difference in philosophy. I don't care what they use as long as they use their eyes and can see.

Travis, I understand you were asking him. But you make photography sound like a competition. Why should he compare it to anything else?

 

This obviously doesn't apply to commercial work, where you have to sell something.

In a way I was asking Jorge why he felt that way. I can have an opinion too, like you, right? And don't put words in my mouth by saying I make it competitive.

 

No, Im not being defensive.

"I'd like to discover that there are still a few younger people using

something other than digital."

 

Al, I find it really sad that you seemingly have a policy of judging

people according to the type of camera they use. What do you

gain from being so narrow minded? You constantly refer to your

age as if it's somehow inevitable that a 60 year old photographer

will still be trapped in the 60s, but this clashes with my

experience of active photographers in the same age group as

you - every one of them is open minded. Digital isn't a threat, it's

just another option. Rather than waste any more time moaning

about current technology why don't you tell us a bit more about

the images and photographers you respect. I know all about your

likes and dislikes when it comes to hardware, but virtually

nothing about your feelings regarding images. For such an

opinionated guy you're strangely reluctant to point us in the

direction of strong photographers........

Jorge, how you feel about your photography is not the same as what your

photography is.

 

Did you see the Charlie Rose interview with HCB? Henri seemed to hold his

own work in sheer contempt, and I don't think it was an act. He said he

longed to produce art like Matisse or Giacometti, and he seemed to think of

his own admirers as misguided fools.

 

Not that there's any simple rule, but in my experience, the best artists struggle

openly with self-doubt and have the capacity to get quite down on

themselves, whereas the bad artists tend to toot their own horns a lot.

<What do you [Al] gain from being so narrow minded?>

 

 

I don't hear prejudice or narrow mindedness in Al's comments at all. I do hear his invitation, though. Why not take him up on it and see for yourself in person what he's like? Besides, the Miami/S. Florida area offers great photo locations and portrait subjects.

 

 

<It just dawned on me this morning that I have a great passion for photography --I love to shoot film, love the process of creating an image, really enjoy using my toys- but I haven't established a love affair with the subject matter.>

 

 

Why not go out and take some pictures--but without a camera? By this I mean, go out as if you had a camera. Find something or someone you feel you'd like to shoot. Then, instead of raising the camera, continue looking for 10 seconds with a quiet mind. SEE IT instead of looking at it. Let yourself go and see the subject instead of trying to capture it in a camera. When this feels right or natural, then go back and try again with a loaded camera. Your technique may not improve, but I bet your SEEING the subject will. This may sound hokey, or New Agey or Zenny, but it isn't. May not lead to a love affair with the subject matter, but could alter how you see. Just an idea ...

It seems to me that HCB couldn't get over his youthful days studying painting with Lhote. Contrary to what he THOUGHT he should be he was a superb photographer but an average "sketcher"

 

like so many on this forum... it galled him to not excel as who he wished to be rather than who he was.

I think that Al put it about right. Start focusing less on your performance and more on the subject, and not only will you enjoy it more the outcome will improve. And if it doesn't improve, it no long matters. The subject or object of the art, focus, what out there do your really care about capturing on film better than anyone else possibly could. . .simply because they cannot see it the same way that you do. And we should not worry so much about emulating the masters. If you can only do as well as they so, congratulations!

I've attached one of my own photographs that most photographers would recognize as "derivative" of HCB. Even came to Siena after he did. But how can I do anything before he did! He had he Leica first; he was one of the first photographers to explore what could be done with it. So what? If this is the best photograph I ever take, I'll be happy. But I will always enjoy trying to produce a better one. The subject matter is infinite. Waiting for us all.<div></div>

Jorge; an incredibly honest essay, probably touches on thoughts & doubts all of us have or have had. Gutsy too considering what sometimes gets thrown around in these pages.

 

My favourite backhanded-insult-from-the-art-world was from Canada's leading art dealer (R.I.P), about 20 years ago, who had selected and nurtured and promoted a slew of modern artists who all became millionaires, as did he. I was the contractor on his last gallery here in T.O., and took a chance by showing him my portfolio. Among his comments [he was from Naples]: "Well, at least you gotta good-a eye for-a composition, unlike a lotta my artists".

 

I'll always remember that. I've always had a good sense of composition and placement, line and mass, etc., but there's more to a "nice-a piksh" than that, and sometimes I don't have it.

 

Much of my best work is around family & friends and is a visual diary of my life. I like to tell myself that one of the differences between me and Nan Goldin is I've lived a "less interesting" life, and that's a good thing. Although I myself AM a junkie; my "needles" have been made of sharp glass elements.

It might be helpful here to step back for a moment and consider another

popular "craft-based" hobby: scale RC aircraft building and flying. I've been

involved in this for about a year and it's interesting how different the cultures

of the two hobbies are. Photo enthusiasts seem forever angst-ridden,

defensive/aggressive, highly opinionated, secretive, arrogant, and/or

meloncholy. That is, they seem to relish playing the suffering artist or the

hard-boiled pro. They are also all apparently ready to quit their "day-job" and

"turn pro" whether they are a construction worker, teacher, or heart surgeon.

Online photography forums regularly erupt into flame wars. Egos are often

tied up into photos to an unnatural degree.

 

In contrast, the scale RC aircraft community is extremely kind and supportive.

New to the hobby? Take your plane and gear to the field and the club

president himself will probably welcome you and maybe give you your first

flying lesson (are all subsequent lessons) for free. Scale RC builders may

spend up to 4 years replicating down to the smallest detail, every rivet and

bolt, every panel line and function of a favorite aircraft. For anyone who

doubts that this is an honest-to-god (folk) art form, check out the following

website:

 

<a href=http://renderwurx.com/rc/SBD/> Tom's Scale SBD Dauntless </a>

 

By the way, the owner-builder-pilot of this national award-winning model

augered it into the ground on its maiden flight -- totally destroying it. Did he

cry and shout (in public)? No. He just took it in stride and got onto with his

next project. As the website makes clear he was willing to document every

step of the built for the benefit of other modelers. BTW, I don't believe I've

every seen an online flame war on the Scale RC equivalent of the Leica

forum.

 

So what is it about photography that seems to drive us nuts?

..,<div></div>

Jorge: I think Brad has hit the nail on the head here. Now that you've realized what you find missing from your photography it will be easier to try to improve on it and move foreward. You also seem to be in seach of a "style." The way you take photos doesn't have to conform to anything, and a style can become a constriction. What I'm trying to say is that the search for a style doesn't have to be a search with an end, and you and any other photographers should always be willing to develop and tune your photographic vision. Just keep shooting, and keep trying to improve. I'm just starting to do this myself, but I think that it's all any of us can do. So long as you have a passion for it and love to shoot what else do you need?

 

Al: I'm 18 and have been into photography for about three or four years. I'm the farthest thing from a digital photographer. I started off with my dad's old A-1 with a set of 28, 50 and 135 primes. Starting off on a totally manual camera got me hooked, and was a great way to learn the basics of photography. My contemporaries, with digital point and shoots or auto everything cameras didn't get the same practice I with the fundamentals of the craft. A few weeks after I got my own camera for christmas - a modern AF slr - I went back and dug the manual camera out of the closet. I now use both, and don't see myself going digital anytime soon.

 

I'm up here in Montreal though, and with the snow falling right now it's the farthest thing from Florida : )

 

Cheeres - Josh

Well JOrge, intersting topic. I like many of your images. Think of them as documents even artifacts of your family's sojourn on the planet. You've been fortunate to have the means to by some good gear, and travel with your family and that's not too bad. I have a teacher who says these types of photos become irreplacible doucments of our times etc etc. You have developed some good technique and that is no small matter. I'm no pro, and I too have to fold my photography into life as well. For me its continuing to refine my eye to new possibilites, ie in seeing. But the only way to do that is to keep shooting. I'm taking a documentary course now, and that is having a profound effect on how and what I'm photographing. Its nice to walk around and shoot, being open to whatever comes your way, but I bet you even those who are just in jazz mode, are actually working either in or out of awareness on projects of seeing, in other words, where their awareness is focused, that is the kind of pictures they will gravitate to. I believe when you get to a certain level of that, you then start to see the developement of an organic photographic style. I don't think it should be a goal, its a byproduct.The passion is translated in the interest. What I think is a really helpful approach if you want to develope real simpatico with your subject matter, and continue to refine your eye and technique, is to self-assign yourself documentary type projects, and complete them, from shooting to printing, even mounting the good ones. By shooting a project, thinking in terms of sequence of photos you can grow intimate with your subject. Form a general idea, take lots of pictures, get your proof sheets, mark the ones that look visually interesting first, even turn the proofs upside down, and just look for the abstract compositions that please,mark those and then go back in and look at them for content, do work prints of those ones that fulfill both criteria, look at the images and see if new ideas pop out or if you can see how to shoot something differently to make it work better. Start thinking in terms of a sequence or organization of the images, than armed thusly, go out and shoot somemore, the 2nd, third, fourth times you will start really honing in. Do it till its finished. YOu can start off small, something you can accomplish, and then move on. You can have several projects at once in different phases. I know this sounds formulaic but I do believe you will see the results. By approaching it somewhat systematically, you will start to develope that eye. I really believe that. Anyways, it seems that creative people are often dissastified with their stuff, its one of the things that keeps you moving forward. Now THIS is a rant!:)