Tray vs. tank/hanger development

I'd like to start developing 4x5 b&w film on my own. Can anyone who has experience in this area provide me with the pro's and con's of tray vs. tank development with hangers? Is one method clearly easier than another? Is one a bigger pain in the neck than the other? Any major pitfalls I should be aware of right off the bat with either method?

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Also, if I choose to go the tank development route, will I have to purchase official development tanks to hold the chemicals, or will any plastic container large enough to allow complete submersion of the hangers in the chemicals suffice?

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Thanks for any insight you b&w masters can provide.

I would never claim to be a B&W master, but will answer anyway,

because I am probably in the distinct minority in that I use hangers.

I like them because it's easy to make sure all negs get just the

right time in developer (they all go in at once, and it's easy to keep

track of which is which, in case you want to take some out early or

leave longer for N- and N+). It is also easier to maintain the

developer at right temperature, since your 98.6 hands are not in the

soup. It is also easy for me to avoid scratches, since the negs never

touch each other or my hands. Proper agitation is important...and

will avoid what some people view as disadvantage of

hangers...streaking along the edges. I lift the hangers all at once,

tilt to the right, drop back in the soup, lift and tilt to the left,

drop back in soup, etc. This is described in detail in Bruce

Barnbaum's book...I think title is "The Art of Photography." Special

tanks are not necessary. You just want to be sure the neg is covered,

and it is helpful to be able to cover several negs without using a

huge quantity of liquid, so you don't have to waste developer. I use

small plastic paint buckets from Home Depot. I have a number of

them...I can leave one set of negs washing in one while I do more,

have one for wash aid, etc. Just get plenty of hangers so you are not

tempted to reuse them while they are wet...getting a dry negative into

a wet hanger is not much fun. Hope this helps.

Out of personal preference i'd go for daylight tray processing - the

paterson orbital thing used for colour print developing. it is,

however not suitable for bulk runs as you have to rinse and dry it

after each use (unless you have the luxury of a light tight room in

which to load it, as in the confines of a changing bag it is a horror

when wet).

One thing to note though it is advisable to roughen oe score the

bottom inside of the tray prior to use, else the film can stick to

the base, potentially leading to uneaven development.

Dan: I am in the process of changing over to the drum and motor base

developing system after years of using tank and hangers and

occasionally tray development. I got tired of streaking caused by the

drain holes in the hangers. I have tried every agitation method known

to mankind, and a few I made up myself, and I still get streaking

occasionally. It usually shows up in the sky areas of scenic shots,

and only on shots with great cloud formations. I know there are many

photographers who use the system, but I am tired of streaks. As for

tray development, unless you do a few sheets at a time, it is the

best way ever invented to scratch negatives, regardless of what Saint

Ansel said (he didn't say he never got a scratch...he said he seldom

got one). The tank and hangers are a good way to develop a lot of

negs at once, but watch how you agitate and insert and remove the

film from the tank during agitation. I have been developing LF film

for more years than I care to admit and I am tired of streaks and

scratches. I don't get either with the drum system.

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Regards, Doug.

Having done both off and on for many years, I would say that I don't

believe one method has any overwhelming advantage over the other, but

here are some thoughts. For years one of the advantages of tanks

was that they stayed full of solutions and were replenished from time

to time according to volume and were always ready for a batch to be

processed (floating lids prevented evaporation and/or oxidation when

not in use). More space is needed to keep the tanks ready. Lately,

many favorite developers are mixed and used immediately on a

"one-shot" basis, so for time savings there isn't much difference

between tray and tank. Two big concerns (pitfalls) are scratching

and agitation and, with practice, both methods produce good,

problem-free negatives. Consistent and thorough agitation needs to

be coordinated to the characteristics of the solutions, especially

developer. The tray shuffle method provides more or less constant

agitation while the "dip & dunk" hanger method is less constant but

certainly can be as consistent, I have never had the incomplete

development around the holes syndrome and have processed many

thousands of negatives on hangers. With 12 or more negatives in a

batch, I believe the hanger method is more convenient, under 12 it's a

toss up. Washing large batches is certainly more convenient on

hangers. The tanks can be anything that fits, I like the plastic

paint buckets as well but the sized hard rubber tanks usually hold

less solution. The daylight Combi tank for 6 or less is another good

option. Having said all this, I presently use the tray shuffle

method mostly because I don't do large batches any more.

Why don't you save yourself a whole lot of agrivation and use a Jobo

drum on a hand roller for starts. No scratching or uneven

developement, plus you get to do it in the light with minimal amounts

of chemicals. If you don't get all the bells and whistles they are

not that expensive. I have the smallest drum made for 4x5 and can do

6 sheets at a time or you can get bigger drums and do more. You can

also add on until your hearts content and have temperature control and

motor rotation. The only disadvantage is that you can't mix different

develpment times in the same drum. The advantages of the system have

outwayed that minor inconvenience for me.

I use hangers and tanks. I have a couple of Kodak hard rubber tanks

and a couple of plastic yankee tanks, I also use a few tupperware

style containers which hold about 2 quarts. I mix fresh developer

each session, the developer I use is Kodak Dektol print developer,

mixed at a 1:10 ratio. Six oz. develooper to 60 oz. water. Believe

it or not, this developer works fine, it is fast working and cheap to

use. By dumping each time I make sure the developer is fresh. I

adgitate the standard way, lifting and tilting the hangers slowly,

first to the left, then to right. That makes one cycle. I presoak

the film for about a minute, place in the developer and agitate 3

cycles. Then I agitate one cycle about every 45 seconds, lift, tilt

left, lower, lift and tilt right, lower. Adverage times are about 5

1/2 minutes for normal development. This gives surprisingly good

results. Mostly I use Arista 125 and 400 films. Using Dektol makes

tank development practical for me.

Dan,

I'm new also, but so far have tried a few ways. First was the

daylight tank. I got uneven development most of the time no matter how

I agitated it. Second was rolling PVC tubes in trays. It worked great,

but more than 3 tubes was difficult. Temp was easy to maintain

because of the small amt. of chemical. Now I'm working with tanks &

hangers. So far this works best. Development has been even. I also

have not given up roll films. I process them in the tanks also. Only

problem is adjusting temp. if it gets too high or low. Cooling down a

gallon of liquid takes time. Open trays are easier to maintain temp. I

have not tried Jobo processors.

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Jim

Go with rotary processing. It costs more to get started, but you will

save yourself many headaches.

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Bill,

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It is no surprise that Dektol works for film. A 1946 Kodak

publication lists Dektol as a developer for "films, plates and

papers." Strong developers appear to have been more popular than.

I've only developed in open trays, which for me has it's advantages

and disadvantages. The advantages are that it's cheap (a few plastic

trays is all you need to get started), and a LOT of 4x5s can be

developed at one time (a good 8 to 10). Personally my batches are

sized depending on the format, as the films become considerably more

difficult to manage with size (e.g. 10 - 4x5s, 8 - 5x7s, 6 - 8x10s).

On the flip side, the disadvantages are that (for me) it is difficult

to manage multiple development times within one batch (I don't bother

even trying). And I am slightly allergic to hypo, as many people

are, so if I process a few batches and go to sleep shortly

thereafter, I will "develop" red splotches on my chest, where my

hands have rested. If you don't want your hands soaking in chemicals

for 30 minutes at a shot, you'd be better off with a tank.

Dan, here's my two-cents worth. First, let me say that I develop 4x5

only (not larger) and in relatively small batches. Sometimes I have

100 or 150 negs to develop, but these are usually the result of a

several week "photo safari" and I don't mind spending a couple of

days in the darkroom developing them all. I use the tray method,

developing no more than 6 sheets of film in a deep 5x7 tray at one

time. Many use 8x10 trays, but I've found that the smaller trays keep

the film straighter and therefore easier to handle. Since I use two

developers, two films and a myriad of development times as standard,

the tray method works best for me. I can change developer and time

for each batch. Tray development is uncomplicated, but does require a

bit of dexterity and practice (the simplest tools require the most

skill). I have had (and solved) problems with scratching negs and

uneven development, and now rarely have defective negatives. I

shuffle through the film stack once every 30 seconds, which means a

different speed for larger and smaller batches, i.e. one shuffle

every 5 seconds for a 6-sheet batch, one every 10 seconds for a 3-

sheet batch, etc.

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Practice in the daylight and with your eyes closed with a tray of

water and four or five scrap sheets of film to get the hang of it,

and see if you feel confident enough to adopt this as your developing

system.

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If I had hundreds of sheets to do every week, I'd probably find

another way to develop that lent itself more to bulk processing. As

it is, tray processing by hand is ideal for me. See Ansel Adams "The

Negative" and many others for an in-depth description. Hope this

helps. ;^D)

Good morning,

I have been developing large film since the late 1930's. If there is a

method available, Ihave used it at one time or the other. I own tanks,

Unirollers, Jobo and trays.

After may thousands of sheets of film of all sizes I have for the

past 15 or 20 years used stainless steel wire baskets in trays. The

baskets hold 6 sheets of 4X5 in an 11X14 trays, as well as other

configurations I have had made. I have also made trays from plastic

which also work well.

In use, the wire baskets are loaded with one sheet of film in each

section. The basket is then placed in the processing trays in order

and agitation is by lifting alternate corners of the tray. To move

from tray to tray, the basket is lifted, film drained and then placed

in the next solution.

The advantages are: no danger of scratching, no streaking, agitation

patterns are easy to establish and maintain, hands stay dry. it is as

if one were developing single sheets in a tray, but more can be done

simultaneously.

For the past several years I have had my college students using this

method, and the number of failures due to processing is almost zero.

If you are interested, e-mail me directly and I will write you more

detailed information about constructing and using baskets from

stainless wire and from plastic.

Jim

in the short time I've been shooting and developing 4x5, I've tried

trays (cheap to start out with, but messy, prone to scratching, poor

temperature and processing in the dark), Combi-plan inversion tank

(leaked like crazy, took so long to pour chemicals in and out that

times were hard to keep uniform), tanks (Back to working in the dark,

to much chemical required for one-shot processing) and finally got a

Unicolor drum and motorized base. I wished I had heard of these much

sooner! They are fantastic! I got the used base and drum off eBay

for about what the hard rubber Kodak 4x5 tanks cost me used. You work

in the light, you can go away and do something else while developing,

the temperature remains pretty constant, agitation is consistent,

chemicals are poured in and out quickly, it requires very little

chemicals so you do one-shot processing economically (avoiding having

to adjust times for developer depletion, keeping track of number of

films processed, having to replenish, etc.), it is fairly free of mess

(no pouring chemicals back in bottles, etc.), and takes little space.

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I since found a deal on a used Jobo CPE-2 and bought the sheet film

reel and drum kit. That's getting pricier, but it works like a charm!

I do film hangers exclusively. Only because

this is the method I like. If you choose it as

well, keep in mind that you can use single

hangers, or quad hangers. My experience is

this. In order to use the quads, it is next to

impossible to find a container to submerge

two hangers, and not use a lot of chemistry.

Its a personal thing for me, the chemistry

and the environement. If you choose the

single ones, Calumet has Cesco 4x5 single

tanks, and hangers. I couldn't find single

hangers anywhere but Calumet. They are on

back order. Its extremely frustrating

waiting for them.

"Combi-plan inversion tank (leaked like crazy, took so long to pour

chemicals in and out that times were hard to keep uniform), "

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1: We stand behind our products. Did you contact us about a new tank

that leaked so we could replace it?

Or was this a used tank of uncertain age and heritage?

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2: Timing is so simple. The clock starts when you start filling and

ends when you stop, The fill and drain times are even. Especially if

you popened the air vent when filling or draining.