Took the F5 out today

Finally got some time to take out the F5 I recently purchased

Like this? Good luck - that prism cover is titanium. Oh wait, I see what you mean...

taking a step back in technology reminds you of the fun of film and developing.

Unfortunately it mostly reminds me that it'll cost me 25 pence per exposure to get E6 film developed and slide mounted. Not that it wouldn't do me good to think carefully before each shot, but it's possible the F5 isn't so much built for that philosophy!

I appreciate the technology of mine, in the way that I appreciate a Saturn V (but wouldn't want to use one to commute). Glad you're enjoying it, though!

I assume Mark is shooting black and white film at this point.

Yeah, I recently found a box of film that got misplaced during a move about 15yrs ago that had about 50 rolls of Elite Chrome 100 35mm, some Velvia, and a couple boxes of Portra , Tri-x and E100 in the 120 roll, shot some Tri-x didn't turn out to bad, some light splotching, but its all 15+ years out of date, doubt if I will mess with the color film, the film today was a fresh roll of Tmax

Way back in November 1998, I was using my F5 in Antarctica, and I manually rewound the film. Of course at the time the F5 was the flagship Nikon body, and some guy asked me why that fancy body didn't have auto rewind. I told him I was trying to conserve every bit of battery power. I didn't use rechargeable batteries back then; instead I had lithium AA which work well in the cold. I tried to make what I had last as long as I could.

In those days I had done my share of opening the back before rewinding. I might have done that 3, 4 times in about 20+ years.

I rarely use power rewind on the F5. I like the leader out for one, which requires listening for the leader to slip off and then opening the back(unless I can ever manage to locate a copy of Photo Secretary, since apparently this is something you can change from there-Meta 35 doesn't let me change it). The F5 has the most ferocious power rewind of any camera I've ever used, and if I were on the sidelines of a game shooting or photographing birds in flight, I'd be glad for it. I don't do either of those that often, and when I do I use digital these days.

With that said, depending on the specific situation I do sometimes use power rewind on the F6. It's not quite as fear-inducing as the F5, lets me easily set it to leader-out, and the last few times I've used it I was shooting it JUST fast enough that it was handy to let it rewind while I was using a different camera. At the same time, Shun mentions conserving batteries in his F5, and I know that I'm especially conscious of that with CR123As(which cost a bit more than AAs).

And great photo, Mark.

I learned about motor drives with Nikons F2/MD-2. At first I thought power rewind was just too cool but it didn’t take long to see times when it was most helpful. The F4s is even better. Can’t speak to the F5 as i’ve rarely used one and never even seen the F6. Yes I still manually rewind a few.

Rich H.

Never having used a high-end Nikon film camera with a winder, did non of them wind all the film onto the take up spindle and then each captured frame was taken back into the cassette for safety?

I can see that taking out a half used film is then interesting but......??

Never having used a high-end Nikon film camera with a winder, did non of them wind all the film onto the take up spindle and then each captured frame was taken back into the cassette for safety?

 

I can see that taking out a half used film is then interesting but......??

No! Actually I don't think any high end camera does that. I thought only lower end cameras do that.

I rarely use power rewind on the F5. I like the leader out for one, which requires listening for the leader to slip off and then opening the back(unless I can ever manage to locate a copy of Photo Secretary, since apparently this is something you can change from there-Meta 35 doesn't let me change it). The F5 has the most ferocious power rewind of any camera I've ever used, and if I were on the sidelines of a game shooting or photographing birds in flight, I'd be glad for it. I don't do either of those that often, and when I do I use digital these days.

 

With that said, depending on the specific situation I do sometimes use power rewind on the F6. It's not quite as fear-inducing as the F5, lets me easily set it to leader-out, and the last few times I've used it I was shooting it JUST fast enough that it was handy to let it rewind while I was using a different camera. At the same time, Shun mentions conserving batteries in his F5, and I know that I'm especially conscious of that with CR123As(which cost a bit more than AAs).

 

And great photo, Mark.

You can set the F5 to leave the leader out with photo secretary? I don't think so. I have the photo secretary and cable.

I thought only lower end cameras do that.

So, only high-end muppets can ruin pictures by prematurely opening the back accidentally?

Gives a whole new meaning to being a 'Pro'...;)

I've probably done it about 4 times ever, once when I believed someone who said 'it was empty', and maybe 3 times i 'assumed' it was...:-(

Well, now I'm confused about what I thought I knew. I think I've read too many camera manuals for bodies I don't own.

First, I thought a standard custom function let you keep the film leader out (which IS true of the Eos 1v). Apparently not. Someone on the internet says it's because Nikon was worried about it mangling the shutter blades.

There are "another 17" custom functions in photo secretary (not -II!), but the manual seems to expect them to be obvious on the screen or for you to use a help function rather than deigning to describe them, and I can't find any definitive list. One may be to leave the leader out, but another report suggested it needed custom tweaking by Nikon (or they may be confused and Nikon just used photo secretary). If anyone finds a list, I'll be interested. It's possible than Thom Hogan's F5 book (which covers photo secretary) would say, but I don't use my F5 enough to justify buying it.

BeBu: Could you be persuaded to take some screen grabs of the "custom functions" screen(s) in PS, please? Apparently the information may otherwise be lost to posterity, which is annoying for anyone considering buying a photo secretary just for this functionality. Or I'm just bad at Google-fu today.

I'm sure I've met a camera that let you choose whether to wind in or out. I vaguely thought I even had one - but I can't think what it would have been, since my F5 is my only body modern and high-end enough to have settings. My Eos 500 does wind into the roll; the F5 probably assumes you always want to shoot two seconds after you insert the film, and so always winds out. Doesn't explain why, unlike the 1v, it has no option to auto rewind.

I see the F6 can leave the leader out and auto rewind, but still always winds outwards.

I WAS just going to say that I looked up black and white film, and IIRC it was still about £4.50 (edit: £4.95 for 36 exposures of b&w is about the best I can find) per roll to get developed; enough to discourage me from a lot of random film shooting, although I appreciate that those who like mixing chemicals can do it cheaper. I really must get the ancient films in my fridge door developed, but I'm not inclined to invest in many more. 120 roll is a little more appealing to me, and I may some day shoot some 5x4, as I keep threatening, but the price/performance of 135 is much less tempting, even with the merits (and disadvantages - a 1990s Ferrari is still a car made in the 1990s) of an F5.

So, only high-end muppets can ruin pictures by prematurely opening the back accidentally?

 

Gives a whole new meaning to being a 'Pro'...;)

 

I've probably done it about 4 times ever, once when I believed someone who said 'it was empty', and maybe 3 times i 'assumed' it was...:-(

While anybody can open the back and forget to rewind. I haven't find it out yet but I believe there are some disadvantages in winding quality if you try to wind the film by turning the cassette. But I don't know of any top of the line camera wind the film first and wind it back into the cassette as you take your shots.

Well, now I'm confused about what I thought I knew. I think I've read too many camera manuals for bodies I don't own.

 

First, I thought a standard custom function let you keep the film leader out (which IS true of the Eos 1v). Apparently not. Someone on the internet says it's because Nikon was worried about it mangling the shutter blades.

 

There are "another 17" custom functions in photo secretary (not -II!), but the manual seems to expect them to be obvious on the screen or for you to use a help function rather than deigning to describe them, and I can't find any definitive list. One may be to leave the leader out, but another report suggested it needed custom tweaking by Nikon (or they may be confused and Nikon just used photo secretary). If anyone finds a list, I'll be interested. It's possible than Thom Hogan's F5 book (which covers photo secretary) would say, but I don't use my F5 enough to justify buying it.

 

BeBu: Could you be persuaded to take some screen grabs of the "custom functions" screen(s) in PS, please? Apparently the information may otherwise be lost to posterity, which is annoying for anyone considering buying a photo secretary just for this functionality. Or I'm just bad at Google-fu today.

 

I'm sure I've met a camera that let you choose whether to wind in or out. I vaguely thought I even had one - but I can't think what it would have been, since my F5 is my only body modern and high-end enough to have settings. My Eos 500 does wind into the roll; the F5 probably assumes you always want to shoot two seconds after you insert the film, and so always winds out. Doesn't explain why, unlike the 1v, it has no option to auto rewind.

 

I see the F6 can leave the leader out and auto rewind, but still always winds outwards.

 

I WAS just going to say that I looked up black and white film, and IIRC it was still about £4.50 (edit: £4.95 for 36 exposures of b&w is about the best I can find) per roll to get developed; enough to discourage me from a lot of random film shooting, although I appreciate that those who like mixing chemicals can do it cheaper. I really must get the ancient films in my fridge door developed, but I'm not inclined to invest in many more. 120 roll is a little more appealing to me, and I may some day shoot some 5x4, as I keep threatening, but the price/performance of 135 is much less tempting, even with the merits (and disadvantages - a 1990s Ferrari is still a car made in the 1990s) of an F5.

Will do what you ask. I have to take out my Windows XP computer with serial ports and install the Photo Secretary.

install the Photo Secretary

From the integral floppy disc drive?....:D

I have seen the citation for leader-out being a Photo Secretary option, but can't point to where I read it now. I will defer to someone who actually HAS the software.

I bought an MC-34 from Japan a while back(just happened to catch it being listed on Ebay) but the Macintosh version of the software is eluding me. I know this isn't the case for most people, but for me it's actually a lot easier to go the Macintosh route than the Windows route for something like this if given the choice.

I had initially thought the proprietary cable would be the tough part of the set up, but the software has been a lot more difficult.

As a side note, since the early days of "all electronic" cameras, leader out seems to have at least been an option considered on higher end cameras. I know that the T90 could be "factory modified" to do leader out, and can attest to this first hand since mine does it :) . IIRC, the modification involves bridging two solder points on one of the circuit boards, and I've heard if adventurous DIYers actually doing the modification.

I'd think that any pro camera could at least be set up that way in some way or another. I've had at least one former AP-affiliated photographer tell me that they were required to turn in exposed film leader out with the "tail" torn off. I've adopted that as my own practice, but for my own reasons-leader out saves me from having to pop the can or pick the leader(I never do the latter) when developing at home. The labs I use pull the film through the trap to load into their processor, and giving it to them leader out keeps the "unsealed" trap from picking up grit that can scratch the film and also introducing grit with a pick. Tearing off the tail is an unambiguous "exposed" sign to me.

Thanks, BeBu. I may never need to know, but I don't like information being lost to history!

From the integral floppy disc drive?....:D

For a long time I ensured I had a floppy drive on my pcs just in case - it's useful for ancient software and used to go handy for bios updates. I still have a USB floppy drive somewhere. I think I've got a USB serial port somewhere.

I did recently have a boot problem in a virtualised system and the diagnostic instructions started with "connect the serial port to your other PC". Fortunately I worked around it. Even in the mid 2000s the "use a second computer to diagnose kernel driver problems" approach at least used FireWire.

A simpler solution is to spend a few bucks to buy a film leader retriever. Then it doesn't matter which camera you use. :)

I knew there was something else I meant to mention. I do have one of these. Never used it (or used the "continue" mode on an APS camera), but then I got into photography ("properly") pretty much with digital, so film has always been a secondary thing for me.

From the integral floppy disc drive?....:D

Yes with an integral floppy drive. I have an HP XW6000 workstation that has the floppy drive, 2 serial port and both internal as external SCSI-3.

For Andrew,

Here are the screen shots of the custom functions.

I installed the software on an HP XW6000 workstation running Windows XP. This PC has a floppy drive and 2 serial port. The software work except that it failed to install the short cut in the Start menu. I found that the Photosecretary software only can install the short cut with Windows 95. However, it works fine on other newer OS you just have to either make the short cut yourself or go to the program folder and click on the files.

I then install it in the Windows 95 that run in a virtual machine on this same computer. I use Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 for this. It also works fine and installed the short cut fine.

I tried to install it on an HP Z600 workstation running the newest version of Windows 10 Pro 64bit. using an USB floppy drive and the setup program won't run with Windows 10. I copy the program folder from the XP machine and put it on this Windows 10 PC and it works. I don't have a serial port on this PC but a UBS to serial converter works fine.

So the Photo Secretary software works on all the Windows OS since Windows 95. Perhaps Ben is a Mac die hard and refuses to use a Windows machine for anything. Otherwise he just has to buy the MC-33 and I can give him a PC preinstalled with Photo Secretary software just for the shipping cost. I can't give him the MC-33 because one day the MC-33 would worth more than my like new F5.

Thanks, BeBu - much appreciated and, at least to someone of my mindset, fascinating. I can't spot anything that allows leader out - anyone else? Having a selectable option of whether aperture is maintained during a zoom is an interesting surprise.

I also am a bit nervous about damage to film as it gets pulled out of a cartridge without a leader to grab, but I guess it's been done enough that the procedure should be refined by now. APS had its own approach, of course.

I think I read somewhere that the "leader-out" was a modification you had to send your F5 in for, maybe in Thom Hogan's manual? I have it somewhere but can't be bothered to go looking for it.

Anyway, back in the day, if you were any kind of "pro", you would go through rolls of film like crazy. I used to hang out with guys to whom 15 rolls meant it was a "light day".

They had to carry tons of film with them, so no, each roll was not in its own nice, golden paper box.

Now, in that type of scenario, imagine reaching in your bag (almost certainly in a hurry) and pulling out an already-exposed roll of film. If the leader is sticking out you'll have no way of knowing that it already has pictures on it... Guess what happens next.. (Hint: 72 photos from TWO separate shoots are ruined).

There's a good reason the leader goes all the way inside the canister and a reason why this behavior is not just a custom setting.

Any "working" photogs would rarely develop their own 35mm film (at least back in the 90s), so, pulling the film out of the canister was the lab's problem. Yes, you could buy a retriever to do it yourself and I've owned a few and still probably have a couple laying around somewhere. Using them successfully though, has always been a pain in the rear. That's why I always opted to use the manual rewind with BW film, because I had to develop it myself.

As a side note: Reusing "unfinished" rolls of film is actually fairly easy. I used to to do it all the time, with several different camera bodies.

Whenever you need to use a different stock, you make a mental note of the frame count, rewind, and write down the "frames exposed" on the canister. *You may choose to leave the leader out. When you want to use up that roll, you pop it back in, set the aperture to smallest, shutter speed to highest, keep the lens cap on and run through whatever number of frames you've written down + 1 or 2. You can then proceed to shooting normally. *You'll get extra scratches this way (at least on the base side) and the lab will probably end up cutting 1 or more photos in half... so, yeah, that's something to look out for. This is actually what prompted me to get a second F5 body.

Thanks, BeBu - much appreciated and, at least to someone of my mindset, fascinating. I can't spot anything that allows leader out - anyone else? Having a selectable option of whether aperture is maintained during a zoom is an interesting surprise.

 

I also am a bit nervous about damage to film as it gets pulled out of a cartridge without a leader to grab, but I guess it's been done enough that the procedure should be refined by now. APS had its own approach, of course.

What happened? You are going back to shooting film now?