To shoot and burn or not.

<p>Hey, I'm not particularly new to wedding photography. I've been doing it for about 3 years now and have about 35 weddings under my belt as the solo/main photographer.<br>

My basic package is essentially a dvd with high res images. Every photo I take I personally look at and touch up or discard if its bad(the blinkers, goofy faces etc..). This is a major part of my shooting style as I don't really consider an image complete until I've personally signed off on it. I believe that I can't really call it 'my work' until its been through lightroom/photoshop and burned to disc. </p>

<p>That being said, I charge what I charge with that in mind. I occasionally get the request for untouched images, which I typically explain this concept. However, recently I've had an inquiry for an event, 5 hours coverage, all the photos on the disc. I've been teetering on the edge about accepting this and just doing the shoot and burn. I was initially thinking a few hundred dollars off my base price. The client asked me if I could do it for considerably less. Around a 1/3 of my base price. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, I'm not going to be giving this client MY work, just photos I took. I have no idea what she will use them for, what she will do with them, what possible artistic atrocities she will commit and tell her friends 'oh this was my photographer and this is HIS work'</p>

<p>My question are these:<br>

Do you shoot and burn? <br>

Do you charge a fraction of your price because its less time and effort on your part? How do you price it?</p>

<p>I'm hesitant to do this for such a low price because the potential side effects it may cause my business. Perhaps I'm over thinking this, but I can't call this my work if someone else has a direct effect on the final product. This client may do things to the photos that can potentially misrepresent my work and pass it off as mine. </p>

<p>Since you use LR anyway, you could potentially go to the shoot with a laptop and assistant, have a bunch of pre-prepared develop presets within LR and every hour or so, hand the card to the assistant, have him/her apply the required presets and export the images as (whatever format you want) for the client. For a 5-hour shoot, you'd be done in exactly 5 1/2 hours, AND the client will be happy AND you won't have produced un-processed results.</p>

<p>Now, as to the price, I don't usually post-process alot, so post is actually a small part of my quoted price, but I would not accept doing such a shoot for only 1/3 of the price. This is like them assuming (and you accepting) that 2/3 of your work are applied in post which should not be true anyway...</p>

<p>If I were you, I would possibly give them a small discount (say 10-15% - I don't know your cost structures) and explain to them that to have the benefit of instant gratification, they have to pay for it, even if it's not as much as the full post effect...</p>

<p>No, I don't shoot and burn - the closest I come to it is doing a quick scan through of the photos, cropping them, killing the bad ones, and if needed a quick exposure fix.</p>

<p>If I do the quick fixes - I charge an hourly rate as opposed to a package price and it typically runs 50% of my package price.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>I operate quite like you Jeff. And I guess your client just wanted the lowest price possible and has no idea what the differences are between shoot/burn and shoot/retouch.</p>

<p>If this is not a popular day, I would take this client and throw in some basic retouch for free. But this most important question if I were you is that am I even interested in doing this wedding who's obviously quite cost conscious.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>First off, I always thought 'shoot and burn' meant that you don't include prints or an album, not that you don't even touch the files you produce. This is because 'long ago', wedding photographers included some printed images or an album in a package. With digital cameras came 'shoot and burn', with clients getting the files, but not the printed part.</p>

<p>What you are describing is akin to what in the 'olden days', amounted to a wedding photographer just giving the client the exposed rolls of film. Then as now, it is up to you whether you want to do it. Some photographers would not even consider doing this then, just as some photographers would not consider doing what you describe, now. It has to do with money--what kind of profit you can make, but also has to do with business and artistic integrity--whether doing this cheapens your current product offerings, and whether you consider putting untouched files in the clients' hands 'beneath you', artistically. I'm not saying it is or isn't. Just that it is your call.</p>

<p>Your hesitation based on artistic reasoning is not quite on target though. People can and do, just about anything to your carefully processed files once they leave your hands, so your concern doesn't hold water. They can still misrepresent your work.</p>

<p>If it were me, and I really wanted the job (can't imagine why, in your case since the client isn't a good friend or relative), I would just shoot large, fine JPEGS and turn over the files untouched. I've shot weddings with JPEG before. It isn't that hard. You can also carefully remove the blinkers and goofy faces--just use the delete button. But I'd really have to want to do the job, for a good reason.</p>

<p>As for discounts, I would not think that a substantial discount is in order. The real work is shooting, not processing. On the whole, I probably would just say no.</p>

<p><strong>Jeff</strong>: Your final paragraph says it all, as far as I'm concerned. You're hesitant. Your work might be misrepresented. And I'll toss in another concern you might not have thought about -- people talk about price, constantly. And everywhere, like online where one sentence on Facebook gets seen by x number of contacts. Once you dip your toes into the shoot and burn waters, you're likely to have a tough time getting out.</p>

<p>We give our clients their files -- processed in LR but not retouched -- after six months. If they want them sooner, they pay more. As Nadine observed, they want <em>you </em>to take the photos, but they just don't want to pay for your expertise.</p>

<p>I guess the question for me is "do you really need the money that badly" I can see absolutely no other reason to take 1/3 of what you normally charge, which I'm guessing if your new to the industry with 3 years and 35 weddings is about what...? $900-1200? So they want to pay between $300-500 right?</p>

<p>So what you're saying is that what you do can be distilled down to an hourly rate, for say $50 an hour.<br>

I hate to say it, this client couldn't care less about your artistic vision or skill, they want a monkey with a camera and would be happy, or unhappy, with anyone.<br>

They will say they can't afford it, and they may have hit the outside of their budget, but you know, they could pay your full cost, and cut the bar from the wedding and ask their friends to bring beer and wine. ...(or the food) obviously that's not going to happen so they will ask you to just shoot and burn.</p>

<p>I wouldn't do it, you risk devaluing your brand, and as Daniel mentioned, these clients sound like they really aren't interested in you as an artisan. The only time I would consider giving a client all the photos would be if I were shooting for one of my photographer friends. And even in that case, I would still insist on providing a selection of edited images. I was recently married, and the photographer I went with offered all the raw files as well as a small selection of about 200 edited photos. <br>

And of course, you run the risk of this client's friends calling you up and expecting you to do their wedding for 1/3 of your regular price. If you do decide to do it, make sure it is clear that you are offering a one time discounted rate for x,y and z reasons. </p>

<p>Is it "Will u do 5 hrs of wedding for 400?"<br /> from Krystal Flemming? I got that too and immediately ignored it. Even assuming it is a real person and not a scam or spam, I do not give discounts and do not conform to requests to lower rates or minimize package options and so on.</p>

<p>Shoot and burn, I used to do occasionally. I would charge extra for RAW files and include a disclaimer that I am not responsible for the appearance of the unfinished product. I am not specifically possessive of my photos unless they are deliberately stolen, which, to my knowledge, has not happened.</p>

<p>I do shoot and burn as part of my base package but I always push albums. I would waiver on your price regardless of the work you will put into it or the time. Honestly if a bride wanted you for 1/3 of your price I would not do it. If you give her "unedited" images, chances are, SHE will do the editing. Chances are she will also put them on Facebook, flickr, etc. What if her editing is junk? That WILL reflect on you as the photographer who shot the photos. For 1/3 of your price it's not worth it. Refuse the job.</p>

<p>I agree with Nadine ... it doesn't matter if you provide a basic batch processed image package (shoot & Burn), or a retouched one with your creative additions ... clients can do whatever they want to them once in their hands.</p>

<p>What I discovered is that those that inquire about shoot & burn type wedding photography do NOT know what they are actually buying. In the days of film, you could hand over rolls of film and the Lab would make exposure/density/and color corrections ... it's not the same with digital.</p>

<p>People that get the shoot & Burn DVDs can open them on their computer ... which may or may not be anywhere nearly as well calibrated as yours hopefully is. Their expectations are formed by looking at your finished work, and those expectations most likely won't be met by untouched images. People think it will be perfect right out of the camera ... after all that's why they go to a pro. I had one client actually watch me as I added my post processing touches, and she said that she had no idea it required more work. </p>

<p>Then there is the questions of what size the individual files are? ... if batched cropped, what ratio is provided? ... and how are these sharpened ? (since ALL digital files need to be sharpened, but to different degrees for different sizes?)</p>

<p>The most I'll do for a budget client is shoot and upload processed selects to my SmugMug account where there is some level of control over the final outcome. </p>

<p>There's a lot of good responses on here. Yes, by offering a dvd with all the image, you are still giving the client control over the final images. However, by handing over unedited photos, you're almost guaranteeing that the client WILL edit the final result. Its about as close to 100% as you can get. By putting the work into and providing them with a variety of BW, sepia, whatever-else-you-may-do-to-them edited photos, you're at least reducing the likelihood (or severity) that they will make tasteless edits. </p>

<p>I've decided to pass this on this one. I would have jumped on this a few years ago, but now not so much. Let someone that really needs to get their foot in the door handle it.</p>