To crop or not to crop?

Hi everyone. Is cropping kosher for street photography? When my class

had a street photography assignment, we were required to print full

frame. The film I shot last weekend was with a 90mm lens which is a

standard lens for medium format. Still, when looking at my contact

sheets, many of my pictures would greatly improve if I just enlarged

a portion of the negative. Is there a tradition of not cropping among

street photographers? Is there any loss of image quality printing

wise when cropping?

Thanks,

Marc

Hi marc, thats a couple of questions, and although i'm no expert, i'll try to answer them as good as I can (I now shoot digital, but have some experience with both MF and street shooting).<br><br>

 

Is cropping "Kosher"?<br><br>

That's up to you to decide, some say 'yes', some say 'no', some say it's 'manipulation', some say it isnt, one of the many grey area's. I can imagine that for a class, printing full frame is usefull (allowing the teacher to judge 'compositional skills at the moment op capture'), but personally, I dont mind cropping.<br><br>

 

Is there a tradition of not cropping among street photographers?<br><br>

Can't help you there, I wouldnt know for shure, my suspicion is that it will 'vary' among shooters, or is unknown for some historical big names.

<br><br>

Is there any loss of image qualite when cropping?<br><br>

Yes and no. Yes, you remove information, and thus have less information left. Enlarging 1/100 of a frame to 20"x20" will obviously look different then a full frame. However (a) a crop can increase the esteatic (spelling?) value of the final print, (b) it will obviously depend on how much you crop together with the final print size, © increased grain caused by cropping might be less objectionable for 'street' shots then for (example) a landscape.<br><br>

All in all, you have a great advantage using MF, having large film plane to begin with, so you can crop more then a 35mm user and still have good prints, if you use 6x6 and crop so you only have 25% left of the original image, you still have a 35mm size neg left (might be wrong calculation there, but you should get the idea).<br><br>

Hope this helps, and hope someone else will correct if and where I was wrong.

The vision of the photographer is all that matters....period.

To crop or not to crop - the answer is, "its up to you".

 

But I think there is a tradition of not (or at least avoiding) cropping among street photographers (and pros in general).

 

For me, the ideal would probably be to use as much as the frame as possible - and if you are going to crop because the form factor of the photo you want does not fit the form factor of film, then know that before taking the photo so you can compose to maximise the composition on the film.

 

Of course this is easier said than done and I personally crop as needed to strengthen the photo, such as around the edges to cut down on distractions or improve composition (that work is a continous reminder to get closer). But that is just me. One thing that I don't think is kosher is looking for another picture in a photo or croping out a large percentage of a photo - if I want to do that, I fee that I have definately blown that shot.

 

Cheers.

What TS said...

 

They're your photographs - others' rules are for other people.

My advice would be to not crop, at least not yet. Your teacher wants to see what you saw

through the viewfinder when you pressed the shutter release. Cropping can be a crutch to

lean on, when you should be learning how to react better at the moment of capture. At the

very least, it's easier to simply take the photo properly in the first place. Also, once you

start to adjust the photo in the lab, the photo becomes less and less about that moment

on the street, and more and more about decisions you've made after looking at a print for

a while. I'd imagine that as time goes on, if you keep with it, you'll do whatever you need

to get the right photo. But, for now, my advice would be to keep on the straight and

narrow.

Cropping is absolutely verbotten. You will imperial your mortal soul if you engage in this disgraceful practice.

That should be "imperil." Sorry.

In the end, imho, it is the final result that counts. Your teacher, as was stated above probably wants you to get used to the idea of composing properly without relying on croping. Fine. But if a photograph becomes more beautiful by leaving out or subtracting a part of it then that is fine also. Also, other than yourself and God, who would know the difference?

Quoth Walker Evans "If you need to crop, crop."

 

Cheers

 

Alan

Marc,

 

There's currently a discussion about cropping generally (not specific to street photography) on one of the large format photography web sites. Worth reading: http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/498466.html

<i>Still, when looking at my contact sheets, many of my pictures

would greatly improve if I just enlarged a portion of the negative.

</i><P>

While there are times when you're constrained about where you

can be or the time you have to position yourself (or even the

aspect ratio of the format), if the shot needs serious cropping,

you were probably shooting from the wrong place or with the

wrong lens to begin with. I tend to get better results when I do

my best to capture the scene I want (and not much extraneous

material) when I push the shutter.<P>

I don't have a "rule" against cropping for myself or others, but I

certainly see the educational value of printing full frame for the

class.

>Still, when looking at my contact sheets, many of my pictures would greatly improve if I just enlarged a portion of the negative.

 

Sounds like you need to get closer to your subject...

Hey Baby,its FULL FRAME or NO FRAME! 35mm don't get cropped, never, under any circumstances no matter what. Did I say I don't crop?

I forgot to add: cropping is for farmers.

<p>I like not having to crop, but when I want to I will. I don't really care to follow photographic <i>traditions</i>. Of course printing full frame all the time might force you to slow down and think about your composition a little more. I generally like shooting B&W or chromes, the chromes are never cropped, and I only crop the B&Ws when I think it will improve the print compositionally. That's my two cents worth anyways....<br><br>--Dominic</p>

Consider this. Let's assume that you shoot with a 90mm lens. Whatever format you use with the 90mm will "crop" the scene.

 

If you use a 4x5 camera and a 90mm you will get a wide angle view of the scene.

 

If you used a 6x7 camera you would get a normal view of the scene.

 

If you used a 35mm camera you would get a telephoto view of the scene.

 

I try not to crop but if I have to I will. Sometimes you have the right lens but the wrong format in hand.

Your instructor wants full-frame prints because it is good practice to fill the frame as much as possible with your subject....regardless of the format you are shooting. The world, however, should not be limited to 8x10 or 8x12 formats...crop away!!!!

I dunno, what does "The Street Photographer's Rule Book" say?

 

One fact in favor of cropping: If your goal is to emphasize extreme graininess for aesthetic effect, shooting loose and cropping tight is a useful technique.

Lex,

 

How about using a Minolta 16 loaded with Tri-x or HP-5? That would force the grain and make it easier to hide the camera and still avoid a telephoto effect.

i do agree........your instuctor is teaching you to get the shot "in camera".........that is ALWAYS the ultimately goal, and practicing to that end is never a fruitless endeavor. BUT....

 

...if you have the 90mm on a MF cam and something is happenning in front of you that really deserves a 180mm(or whatever).......shoot the damn pic and crop it later........because changing lenses is guaranteed to lose the shot for you.

 

if it looks better to you cropped during post production........crop it! Contrary to popular belief, the image making does not end in the camera. The photographic process starts when you notice something, and ends when YOU have the print you want. It is really that simple.

 

bottom line, as i said before...........its is your vision.......do it.

 

I will however, restate, that you do have to learn stuff........and it never hurts to practice technique. Full framing is just that.......a technique. The real world, sometimes dictates doing something else. But your question really was, I think, not whether your instructor was right or wrong, but what the general street photographer (master) does/did. After reading a lot about how the masters did what they did................believe me.......regardless, it was always the final image they ALL cared about. I could research my library and find some examples, but I would suggest you buying some of these masters books, and learning for yourself. So much more is gained by learning on your own, searching for it, learning YOUR truth along the way.............than having someone hand it to you on a silver platter. That's not a slam, by the way, just some experienced instructions. I gain so much more by trying to find the info on my own........for one thing, you end up hearing all sides of the arguements, AND most of all, seeing the Master's examples of why they think what they do is best (at least for their way of doing things).........sometimes you even find one that will explain their searching process for finding their own way of doing.

What bugs me are people who crop, but then print a ragged black frame around the image(somehow) so it looks full frame. That�s fake.

 

Marc, do you know about the thin black line? People file out the neg carrier a bit so it prints the clear film edges around the negative image. If you have a four bladed easel you can snug up the blades and create a nice looking black border around a full frame image. Some people prefer a real ragged look with sprocket holes showing and such.

"sheets, many of my pictures would greatly improve if I just enlarged a portion of the negative."

 

So get closer, right?

It's up to you.

Lots of teachers want to see full-frame images from students to be able to better offer tips

(in street photography quite ofter: Get Closer), and to understand what the student was

seeing, and aiming at for his photos.

 

Some photographers (Cartier-Bresson, Elliott Erwitt, Meyerowitz's street work) had a credo

that involved printing full-frame, but that's certainly not a requirement.