The Old question ... Mac vs. PC what do I do?

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by jacques c pelletier, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Hello everyone.
    This is my very first post on this thread and although I have browsed and found some interesting answers on Photo.net, I am going to dare asking the same question:
    Should I switch to a Mac from a PC?
    Here are the facts:
    PC: Mine has been rather fast and performing until recently when I started to have problems post processing with CS3.
    Importantly, this all started when I replaced the 2 x 1Gb RAM with 2 x 2 Gb RAM. The RAM is to the computer specs.
    It has slowed down considerably and after much home tests with the help of knowledgeable technicians (where I bought the PC). One noteworthy note: this is not a CS3 issue only, it also now happens with Pentax PhotoLab which I use extensively for processing the RAW files.
    Pretty much everything has been checked before taking it to the tech guys:
    Virus ... none; Unwanted bits and that sort of things ... none; cleandisk and defrag done; updated drivers for the video card and BIOS; take the new RAM out and re-install the old ones ... still very slow; tweak the performance section under CS3 to use all the "useable" scratch disks and increased the video allocation... no change. Apparently, Windows software (XP and/or Vista) have the nasty habit of "degrading" after a while and eventually would need re-installing, hence, reformatting which I certainly don't want to do.
    I had to bring the unit to them for lab testing. It is presently being looked into.
    Now, my bro.-in-law uses a Mac, a high-end one by the sound of it (I haven't seen nor do I know exactly what it is but it did cost him around 2700$). He himself is a software technician with a large company and he knows his stuff. He actually uses both a PC and a Mac, the latter specifically for post processing and all video stuff. He tells me that he never had one single instant of trouble with it for the past one year he's had this Mac machine.
    He raves about the fast post processing, even with large TIFF files and batch processing TIFF files.
    We have no Apple stores in my little home town and after asking around different shops, Mac-knowledgeable people are practically non-existant here.
    What if I get a Mac, then it breaks down ?
    Truly, I am getting a bit annoyed with recurring Windows/PC issues; I don't have time for sitting in front of the screen, waiting for an image to finish its rendering under CS3. I need something reliable and fast. Am I fooling myself?
    Any comments, suggestions and answers would be extremely welcomed.
    JP
     
  2. Jacque
    I own/use a Mac and have for years. I love it and haven't had problems, but local service would be a big concern for me. Mac has great service via telephone, but I have a Mac repair store in town, if I ever did need it.
    They both do the job. The software is basically the same. It really is personal preference and what you get used to using. If you are careful about viruses, PC's should not be a problem.
    Good luck,
    Mark
    Mark
     
  3. You already have a PC and it is not working well, are all these PC people in town helping you out? If you purchase a MAC they have great customer support, but you are correct that in the small chance the hardware of the computer breaks down and you can't drive to a Apple store you would need to ship it to Apple. That is pretty similar to buying a Dell though right? Unless you are willing to pay for in home support, which Apple probably has as well if you pay for it. How far are you from an Apple store? I live 90 minutes from one and if I really had a serious issue I would just spend the time to drive it over there.
    No one can answer your question in the end, it depends on how much you are willing to spend, what it would take for you to switch to Apple with your software, etc. But how many Mac people say there are unhappy with their experience and it wasn't worth the extra money? Probably some, but not many. A new PC will work for you just fine, especially one with the new Window's 7, but who knows for how long...
     
  4. The only thing that MAC is missing is the ability to playback Blu_Ray movies and business presentations recorded on BD DVD media, on large size HDMI LCD/LED screens.
    However, you can use high resolution LCD projectors instead and play off regular DVD with upconversion or from hard disc files. Not quite the same thing, though.
     
  5. I am a PC user and have thought about the switch myself. I decided to go with a refurbished Dell PC. Last month I purchased a quad core with 6 gigs of ram and running Vista 64. Price... $489. Blazing speed and runs CS3 just fine. I'm happy.
     
  6. I use Mac for photography, image processing.
    I use PC for business stuff like excel, word.
     
  7. I've used both PC and Mac for many years - professionally and personally. Some time ago I concluded that the Mac is a measurably superior system for my purposes, especially in the creative realms of imaging, graphics, and the arts, but also in the scientific and mathematics fields. I now rarely use a PC unless it is absolutely necessary, such as working with a client that is a PC-only shop. If I need a Windows environment for a special app, it is easy to bring it up on the Mac, as it is a true dual platform. I only rarely do that, for the reasons that you mention in your post.
    The Mac is a much simpler and more intuitive environment to set up, manage and maintain, and OS X is the most stable system I have ever used, as contrasted to e.g., Vista. I've owned at least eight Macs over time and have never had to have one serviced or repaired for a hardware problem, unlike my PC's. I've never experienced virus, malware, spyware etc. issues (although to be honest I have had a virus or two received in email that was passed on to others even though it did not affect my system). In fact, I've never even had a software problem that couldn't be resolved with just a little research into the Apple Knowledge Base or a call to Apple Support. For the last two Macs I purchased, I didn't even bother with the extended protection plan, which for about $200 gives you a global service and repair warranty for three years. However, if you are concerned about service you might want to consider that plan.
     
  8. Mac vs PC has become something like Nikon vs Canon. They do pretty much the same thing and end up costing pretty much the same after you factor in everything, but people have really strong opinions anyway. Switching OSes is like switching camera systems, you're going to need a bunch of new lenses.
    If I were starting out I'd go Mac just because of the customer service, tech support and training programs at the Apple stores - nobody in the Windows business has anything close to that.
     
  9. the only difference when talking about what to use as a *tool* is the price.
    Mac cost 2x more vs the same PC setup. difference stop there. Virus? buy yourself a nice anti virus and you wont have a problem.
    I use and always use Mac since im 8, im 35 and dont see when i will switch to PC..for now ; )
     
  10. Mac, if for no other reason than you are currently not happy with your PC. Don't worry about that lack of Mac-knowledgable people. That could be you soon.
     
  11. I've been a Mac user for many years. But I've also been a member of the team formulating hardware/software standards for the large dual-platform institution where I work, so I'm not an anti-Windows person - some of my best friends and colleagues on the team are Windows users.
    Similarly equipped machines from Apple and major Windows computer manufacturers are not that different it price, with the possible exception of the high end - but even there the issue is complex if you take the time to compare carefully. Macs are most certainly not "2x more vs the same PC setup."
    I suppose that if you don't feel a strong need/desire to switch platforms it can make the most sense to stay with what you know - you certainly can do photo stuff well on either platform. If you do go with a Mac, unless your needs are really at the high end one of the 24" iMacs with maxed out RAM and hard drive can be a great Photoshop machine.
    Dan
     
  12. Macs are more expensive at the low end but not more expensive at the high end. Sure there are those dumbass commercials, but all they demonstrate is that you can install Windows on crappy hardware. Meanwhile, with Macs you get a better included software package, better value retention (you can sell your Mac in 3 years and the difference between its retained value and a PC's retained value will likely make up for the difference in initial price), less work to maintain, MUCH better customer service (Ever compare the Genius Bar to Dell? If you own a Dell, don't, because it will make you cry) and better industrial design.
    Saying a PC is cheaper than a Mac (as a reason not to buy a Mac) is like saying a Toyota is cheaper than a Lexus. Of course, both have their place in the market, but a Toyota customer and a Lexus customer will both have their reasons for making their choice and nieither's reasons will make the other's invalid.
     
  13. See this I did it and couldn't be happier
     
  14. The biggest difference between a Mac and a PC is the Mac is sold by Apple. That's it. Today, they even use the same parts.
    Apple goes to great efforts to prevent the user being able to add/remove hardware. That's just history and they have always done it. It was a lesson learned from the Apple-II days. They *do* that to maintain quality control and to prevent the situation like this from happening. It's *not* because of better engineering, it's by design.
    If you don't want these issues on a PC, buy the hardware from a tier-1 manufacturer like Dell or HP. Order upgrades only from them. It will work forever and when it doesn't it will be supportable. You cost will now be about the same from Apple. Only then should you compare your problems.
    The short answer to all the MAC/PC issues is the idiot behind the keyboard. Knowing what part to stick in does not mean you know what to do with it. If you want to play tech, don't blame the machine. There are consequences to everything and you got hit.
    For the record, I use a MAC and PC. Both since they were invented. I have seen just as many badly engineered MACs as PCs. Let go of the myth.
     
  15. If I were starting out I'd go Mac just because of the customer service, tech support and training programs at the Apple stores - nobody in the Windows business has anything close to that.
    Ask this guy what he thinks of Apple Care.
    http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-desktops/159351-problem-apple-care-how-many-bad-apples.html
    Then cruise that forum on a regualr basis.
    I know a lot people that use both platforms professionally. I work in industries (film and music) that used to be 100% Mac dominated and isn't any longer. In the last five years, I've steered a few friends and a pro photographer to Mac and they now hate me. It's caused me to start following the few decent Mac forums and Flickr groups to help them out. There is a whole army people out there that will state that Mac's reliability and service has dropped significantly since their success with iPhone/iPod.
    Mac/PC thing is personal and it all boils down to wishing to use the the Mac OS. And it takes a very experienced computer user to come to this conclusion. For the rest of us, in my opinion, they are over priced and over hyped. Most "non-photo" people that use Mac are simply using them because of effective marketing. Most that will recommend them have been with Mac and lived with the compromises and will rarely share with you what software they miss or can't run. For instance, try to find an iPone user that says they miss surfing flash web sites? Try to find an iPone user that says it's acceptable to not shoot video on their $200 iPhone when their $50 crappy Nokia will. Are you ready for these compromises because this extends right up to using Mac's computers. Just lilke that person in the link I posted.
    I recommend you just keep your ear to this forum and others. It's usually people with Mac's and drivers that have problems on PN and yet they are 4% of the photo market. You'd think most of the posts here wuld be Vista/XP issues but it's not. IMO, Mac's aren't all that they are cracked up to be. They're made in China with the same parts. Then you buy into a very closed proprietary "lifestyle". Things like being charged for a new OS (Snow Leopard) which is actually just (in windows world) an update bug me. It's a money grab, imo.
    For me personally, the OS is just in the way and could care less really. Except for Ubuntu of course. Wish I could run that all the time. But either Mac or PC, I must deal with before CS4 opens. I don't like how hard, compared to windows, Mac is to navigate through it's contents. "Finder" is a joke compared to Explorer. OS X is clunky and old feeling compared to Vista or Windows 7. These are frivolous concerns though.
    We have no Apple stores in my little home town and after asking around different shops, Mac-knowledgeable people are practically non-existant here.
    Nope, I wouldn't do it for this reason alone. Would you buy a rare and unique car in a small town? An Audi A4 maybe? That no one can fix and there is no parts? A good friend of mine lives in a town of 30,000 and is one of three photographers worth applying that label to. He had constant problems with his MBP and it was on the bus shipped to the next largest city 6 times. He let down clients and was late many times while he constantly had to use his old Dell and old software, the one that caused him to "switch" in the first place. He's back on a fancy Toshiba.
    As for your slow PC, it could be many things. It could be a matter of cooling. There are tons of hardware and software reasons for it. But the same thing happens to Mac's. My gf is going through it for two years. Her $6K Mac is running at what she calls 50%. Not fair to call it a $6K Mac because half of the $$$ is in monitors. Really nice monitors, btw. But nevertheless, it has been in the shop 3 X's. It runs great for a month and slows to sludge and she puts up with it. In it goes in and the cycle continues.
    Because CS4 is 64-bit for Vista-64 and XP-64 and Windows 7 64, you can use more ram than OSX. It's still running CS in 32-bit. It wont always be like this of course and I wouldn't base any long term commitments on todays software limitiations.
     
  16. Try to find an iPone user that says it's acceptable to not shoot video on their $200 iPhone when their $50 crappy Nokia will​
    Just to bring you up to date G, you always had been able to shoot video with you Ihpone using a third party application (i do) and you can now with the 3GS 9i also do it) , and soon on the newest Ipod Touch..and there maybe out soon net book..finally. A bigger Iphone that doestn fit in your pocket, but are less powerfull than your Macbook..dam! its already there its a MacBook Air LOL
    Back to the real thing now, i always enjoy reading you ; )
     
  17. Thanks G! How about viewing flash web sites? And what a pain to do texting on a iPhone. But saying all this, I'm expecting a call for my 16 gig 3Gs this week too :)
     
  18. i use it on my macbook pro as a tethering device for that : )
    ..oh you know WHE Canadian can use our Iphone tethered..ah ah ah
    I hope they will enable that feature soon with a next 3.x release..
     
  19. I've spent more than a few hours (and dollars) on both platforms. With equally entertaining results.
    At the sound of it, you may have had a) bad memory (it's finicky stuff and if mishandled can develop problems), b) mismatched memory (ECC, etc. memory is incompatible with some motherboards and vice versa), c) some other device plugged in that is degrading performance. Without running a diagnostic, it would be hard to say. You can snag something like Evergreen benchmarking software for free, and it will give you a detailed report out of what hardware is in place, what memory speed, drive speed, processor speed, etc. is going on. It even effectively will report back component identities, BIOS & firmware versions and so on.
    I have seen both operating systems have problems. So I don't buy into the marketing hype. And as someone pointed out, yeah you can float Windows on a crappy machine (my mother's computer is a good example, but it's been running fine for several years so long as I come by and do maintenance about once a year).
    My mobile workstation has a nice Blu-Ray drive, and is more than capable. It is PC Windows based, but then so is Photoshop (native to PC, not to MAC).
     
  20. Think hard about switching from PC to Mac. If you are use to working with PC's switching to a Mac can be a big headache. Especially if you have tons of work to do and not much time on your hands. Another problem is compatibility issues with other software/hardware.
     
  21. Jacques, as a Mac user since 1984 I'll sing their praises for a long time. But it seems like your problems are related to the RAM. Have you tested other chips in there? The place that built it for you should have the skills to at least give you a diagnosis.
    ME
     
  22. Yes having access to gobs of RAM in PS is quite amazing when using layers and filters/plugins. Man can it eat it up. Using 12GB I've seen PS want it all, and everything is buttery smooth.
    Aside from that they're probably equal except for prices. Don't believe the PC naysayers who claim PC's freeze all the time. And if you run into a three year old who likes the sticks and stones approach by using names like 'Windoze', definitely don't listen to a word they say. Honestly I've never seen a more immature, egotistical, and sensitive user base in my life (not all of them of course). Maybe it's the whole 'iLife/look at me' advertising push. It's a tool, not a baby. I remember those early Apple ads with their motto of not doing things like the rest of the crowd, but ironically it seems like the Apple world keeps you in tight control by charging for OS updates and strictly doing things the Apple way.
    Usability-wise I think Macs are great, and PC's have wisely copied them a lot. I use a program (Object Dock) that puts icon menus in an easy to use bar at the bottom of my screen just like a Mac, which allows me to avoid the annoying start menu, the added expense of a Mac, and the whole 'iLife' thing.
     
  23. I've used Macs since 1985. Have owned (by my last reckoning) almost 40. I have also written for years for nearly every major (and many minor) Mac publications. But a couple of years ago, I started using Windows as my main OS. Since then I've purchased half a dozen Dell computers (both laptops and desktop, well, under-the-desk machines). I've supported both systems for a long time and have written software for PCs and Macs going back quite a long time. In short, I'm pretty familiar with both systems.
    Many years back, there was a lot to be said in favor of the Mac platform, especially for "creative professionals." To be frank, until the release of Windows XP, Windows sucked. But these days almost none of the advantages of the Mac are decisive, even for creative pros. Macs are prettier pieces of hardware, and the Mac OS is a prettier operating system. There are other little things that I still really like about Macs - like Spotlight (the OS's file search system) or the magnetic power cable connector on Mac laptops. But since SP2 was released for Windows XP, the Mac vs PC debate has become pretty moot. There is virtually nothing that I can do on my Mac OS machines that I can't do equally well on my Windows machines. (I'm running XP SP3 these days - haven't upgraded yet to Vista.)
    And note that these days it's really hard to buy a Mac laptop that doesn't have a glossy display. No self-respecting working photographer would want to spend hours looking at a glossy display. I'm not sure what happened at Apple that caused this change.
    If you want to run software that runs only on a Mac (say, Aperture), get a Mac. If you are already heavily invested in Mac-compatible hardware, buy a Mac. If you feel drawn to the Mac OS Way of Life, buy a Mac. If you don't like having lots of choices, buy a Mac. That last point by the way is made without sarcasm or disparagement.
    Otherwise, consider the PC. Comparable systems will be a little cheaper on the PC platform. Aside from running Aperture, you'll be able to do everything you want on a PC that you could do on a Mac and you can do it just as well. And PCs are, in most respects, no harder to use than Macs, in fact, in some respects, Windows has some advantages that the Mac lacks. Anybody who thinks that Macs are somehow inherently "easy to use" hasn't done much tech support for users on Macs, or simply doesn't know Windows very well. Between 1985 and 2005 I found Macs to be pretty well made, but I certainly had my share of hardware problems. Hard disks died. Several laptops had to go back to Apple for repairs. I got bad memory. I had printer problems. Apple's quality control is very good, but it ain't perfect.
    I don't have anything against the Mac, quite the contrary: I really like many things about Macs. But PCs have their advantages, too. And the more you work on the Web in your browser, the less it matters which desktop OS you use. In short, it's your choice and you can't go too far wrong no matter what you decide.
    If you are having problems with your Windows hardware, I'd suggest figuring out those problems first. More RAM might indeed be a good place to start.
     
  24. The biggest difference between a Mac and a PC is the Mac is sold by Apple.​
    Interesting. The biggest difference, IMO, is that the Mac runs Mac OS and the PC runs Windows.
    Think hard about switching from PC to Mac. If you are use to working with PC's switching to a Mac can be a big headache. Especially if you have tons of work to do and not much time on your hands.​
    My in-laws, both retired and not exactly power users of anything electronic, switched to a Mac at my wife's urging (who herself switched at my urging). They haven't missed a beat, and rave about how much they love the Mac. If they can switch, anyone can.
    If you think you want a Mac, then make the jump. You won't read a lot of stories from people who make the switch and regret it.
     
  25. Mark: thanks for the reply. I understand your point very well. I agree that the after-sale service could become a problem. I am under the impression that Mac computers seldom break, but we never know.
     

  26. James: Yes, the hometown guys are helping to fix the problem, at least I have that positive aspect of things. In the end, I'll wait for that supposedly "great" Win7 which seemingly will handle 64 bits, which would be a good thing, realizing that this PC of mine can handle 8Gb. I am stuck with 3 out 4 useable Gb's at the moment. I am told that the Beta version is quite stable, but I am still very suspicious of anything "Windows".
     
  27. Frank: I am not at all concerned with this aspect of playing back Blu_Ray movies or bus presentations but I can see your point. No, really, I need a comp which performs fast under Photoshop. No time waiting for little progress bars during a simple sharpen touch with a 45 Mb TIFF file.
     
  28. I was able to install a DVD burner in my MacBook by using a pretty good disassembly manual I found on the Internet. Most of the task was done with a 1.4mm screwdriver. I'd say, if you are reasonably handy, and can stay organized, and can get the right manual, then changing out components can be reasonably done yourself.
    I found the repair manual for my MacBook at Powerbook Medic.com. There are other good sites for replacement parts. Some confidence and some handiness can reduce the anxiety over those future repair concerns.
    It was so easy to work on the MacBook, that I would be surprised if someone sent theirs out for repair. Clearly a do-it-yourself operation. The laptop was so easy to disassemble, interchange parts and reassemble, that I don't see why you would need any kind of technician to service the machine. If you can change the oil in your car, you can probably work on a Mac with little or no trouble.
     
  29. Christopher:
    Yes, I have approached that aspect of getting a 64 bits environment in that box, and increasing the RAM (have 4 Gb at the moment), though the guys would install XP Professional 64 bits version instead of Vista. They are working on it at the moment.
     
  30. Bill: that would be a good idea ... never thought about it. Thanks for the hint.
     
  31. Rick: In a nutshell .... you've summarized what I really want from a computer: ease of use, performance and reliability. Thank you for the extended response, much appreciated.
     
  32. Andrew: I feel the same, now after many, many years, having had the experience with a Mac when I was a U. student. Even back in the 80's, Mac was a very intuitive machine but then, the software just was not available, reason why I switched over to PC's. I wouldn't mind learning the new Mac O/S though.
     
  33. ...though the guys would install XP Professional 64 bits version instead of Vista.


    Bad choice, imo. XP-64 isn't updated by MS anymore. It's more vulnerable to security risks than Vista. It's slower too. It's hard to find some drivers for it compared to the other MS 64-bit OS's available. I ran XP-64 the day it was released and dumped it the second Vista 64 SP1 came out. Now I'm on Windows 7 64-bit and it is the best Windows OS there is. I'm able to load drivers on it that I still can't load for XP-64. I wouldn't consider anything but Windows 7 64-bit or Vista 64-bit in the mean time.
     
  34. Patrick: Yes, the price is high for Mac machines but the way they perform is so pleasant. I don't think you'll ever switch to a PC.
     
  35. Peter:
    That is the main reason alright: not happy when it works for a while then suddenly starts to act up, as any other PC I have owned over the past many years.
    I am told Mac's are 10% of the total desktop/laptop population! Better have a lot more of those knowledgeable people out there. Yes, that could also be me included into that 10+%.
     
  36. Either can do the job for you and neither will likely do it perfectly. I own a loaded Mac Pro and a dual boot 64 bit platform PC. The PC hasn't crashed in months. My Mac Pro crashed twice within the last two days while working in Final Cut Pro. My Mac 'loses' the drivers for my Canon ipf8000 printer on a regular basis. I've grown tired of reinstalling them so I transfer the files to my PC and use it as a spooler for my printer. CS3 and CS4 both crash on my Mac with amazing regularity when I open bridge and scan files. But when it works, it is faster in processing large files in Photoshop. This was my first Mac. Will I buy another? Probably not.
     
  37. Jacques, I forgot to mention, the reason your PC may be slowing could be as a result of registry errors. Has a registry cleaner software program been installed on your PC? This same type of problem can happen with a Mac although a Mac tends to take care of it's own 'housekeeping' when it's shut down. Even so I still use mac Mechanic to perform similar functions on my Mac.
     
  38. Dan:
    Similarly equipped machines should perform similarly, I realize that. But in your opinion, do you think working with a Mac is easier? How often does a Mac suddenly stalls vs. a PC? Is the Mac O/S more stable in the long run? I am considering the Mac not only for its looks but also for the reported stability. I personally don't know because I had just a very quick tour of my Bro-in-law's Mac.
     
  39. The biggest difference between a Mac and a PC is the Mac is sold by Apple. That's it. Today, they even use the same parts.
    No, the biggest difference is the OS. Mac OS X is a fast, efficient, secure OS with features that really do improve the end user experience. Windows Vista is a slow, bloated hog with a wide open back door. XP is better than Vista in terms of speed and efficiency, but not by much, and it's worse on security. I've always had both because of the work I do but until recently most of my time was spent on Windows. Now I can spend most of my time on the Mac side and even though I've always used both I'm still blown away by how much nicer the day goes on the Mac side.
    I can't begin to describe to you how unsecure Windows is. I am of the firm belief that it should be outlawed from use in any situation where it could compromise critical infrastructure, i.e. military, government, services like water and power, etc. It's a joke. There are too many new viruses each day for any AV product to keep up 100%, and I routinely clean PCs that had the latest Norton/McAfee/Whatever yet were still infected. There is malware so well designed that it evades detection by multiple scanners and is nearly impossible to find manually. I'm convinced that this is the source of many problems of the type "my PC slowed down and only reinstalling Windows helped." You think your PC is malware free because some scanner said so? Think again.
    Contrast this with the Mac community where most people don't even own AV software yet get through year after year with zero infections. What makes you think the engineering behind any other part of Windows is any better than the security?
    Windows is now just another application I run on my MacBook. I only run it for work I cannot do on the Mac side (i.e. .NET). Everything else is secure on the Mac side. Windows sits in a sandbox where it belongs and if it gets infected or corrupted for any reason I can simply revert to an old restore point. Not Windows restore points, which don't work (surprise), but VM restore points which do. Windows is actually easier to manage on the Mac.
    JP - switch. You will not regret it.
     
  40. ... just a note guys ... I am lost as to whom I should reply next. Back in a short while.
    JP
     
  41. Similarly equipped machines should perform similarly, I realize that.
    Yes and no. Windows uses more RAM than Mac OS X, a difference that will grow with the Snow Leopard release. So if you have a Mac and a PC each equipped with 4 GB of RAM you will start thrashing the disk for virtual memory sooner on the PC as you open apps and files. Any time the computer has to do this performance is also thrashed.
    Here's another thing I noticed when I recently was able to start spending most of my time on the Mac side: sleep actually works on the Mac. It even works when Windows is open in VMWare Fusion. Sleep was never reliable for me on Windows. So now I almost never restart, preferring to sleep/wake. I can go weeks between restarts. This means I leave my most used applications open all the time. How much time is saved there?
    There are other small differences which add up to time saved. The OS in general simply feels more responsive and fluid.
    But in your opinion, do you think working with a Mac is easier?
    (I realize you were asking a different Dan, but...) Working with a Mac presents fewer maintenance headaches like the ones you're experiencing. They're not perfect, and you still need to learn about them. But they are much better behaved. There are also some features which are really, really nice such as Spaces, Expose, and Time Machine.
    How often does a Mac suddenly stalls vs. a PC?
    Suddenly stall? My Mac doesn't suddenly stall :)
    In all fairness I can slow it down by opening so much that I'm pushing even 4 GB of RAM. But as long as I'm not doing that I almost never see a hiccup or stall in performance.
    Is the Mac O/S more stable in the long run?
    By far.
     
  42. Jacques, I forgot to mention, the reason your PC may be slowing could be as a result of registry errors. Has a registry cleaner software program been installed on your PC? This same type of problem can happen with a Mac
    There's no equivalent to the God awful registry on the Mac, so no, the same type of problem cannot occur. Lumping all application preferences and settings into one gigantic database managed by the OS was one of the dumber things Microsoft ever did from a security, stability, and efficiency stand point.
    You may end up with stray, no longer used files in your Mac's preferences folder, but they don't have any negative impact other than a few KB of wasted space. They don't put the stability or speed of the machine at risk.
    although a Mac tends to take care of it's own 'housekeeping' when it's shut down.
    You're right about that. It's why you don't need to defrag Mac drives.
     
  43. I have a Mac now which was a Christmas present from my family a few years ago. They got tired of me yelling at my PC when it kept "messing up".
    I think many of your problems could be due to an incompatibility in your hardware. You say that the new Ram is up to spec, but I have run into the same problems on our PCs here at home.
    It is thought that PCs and their components are very compatible, but if you think about it, there are many different configurations of hardware from PC manufacturers and between models of the same brands. You're bound to run into some hardware compatibility problems from time to time. It is amazing that they (any Windows or Apple based PC) work as well as they do for the price you can get one for.
     
  44. I have had it happen that a PC can check out fine, and still have something wrong. I guess it's some corrupted code or problematic detritus somewhere. I have found that sometimes the only thing that works is a clean install. I back up everything I want onto other media, erase (not just delete) everything on the main drive, and reinstall what I want. I do it approximately once a year, even without a specific problem. I'm always pleased at how much better things run.
     
  45. Macs are more expensive at the low end but not more expensive at the high end.
    Andrew, this couldn't be less true. Getting decent hardware in a Mac is prohibitively expensive.
    For example: checking Apple Store and selecting the quad-core Mac Pro, a $2500 box. It comes stock with:
    • One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
    • 3 GB RAM (ew)
    • 640 GB hard drive (ew)
    • Nvidia Geforce GT 120 graphics card w/ 512 mb VRAM (ew)
    • Superdrive
    • No monitor (ew)
    Upgrading to 8GB (4x2GB) ram costs $250. The most expensive 4x2GB kit listed on Newegg, a top of the line Corsair kit, costs $180. $250 is just for the stinking upgrade!
    Adding a 1 TB 7200RPM hard drive costs $300. Newegg sells it for $80.
    Now, to further illustrate the point - let's see what we can get building "PC" (no need to install Windows if you don't like - just buy the Leopard disc or give Ubuntu a shot) for a similar price:
    • TWO Intel Xeon 2.26 GHz quad core Nahelem CPUs plus Asus Z8PE-D12 Motherboard - $1100
    • 24 GB OCZ DDR3 RAM (12x2GB) - $320
    • AthenaPower steel case with 700W power supply - $200
    • TWO Seagate 1TB 7200 RPM hard drives - $190
    • XFX ATI 4870 X2 (two graphics processors in one card) 2GB video card - $370
    • Totals $2180, leaving $320 for keyboard, mouse, wireless adapter/whatever other accessories you like - easily enough to get top notch stuff
    So comparing $2500 of Apple hardware to $2500 of normal retail priced hardware, we arrive at a system that has double the CPU cores, eight times as much RAM, triple the HD storage, and immeasurably better graphics performance. This will spank to Mac any which way you look at it. There's just no comparison.

    In fact, the area Mac does best competing with "PC" is in low-end laptops, where you might pay a few extra hundred dollars for the equivalent Mac, but it's worth, given the Mac is an industrial design icon, built like a tank, and incredibly lovable. I'd rather buy a Macbook than a Dell laptop, but if I wanted a workstation, there's no chance I'd ever choose Mac.
     
  46. No, the biggest difference is the OS. Mac OS X is a fast, efficient, secure OS with features that really do improve the end user experience.
    Daniel, contary to popular belief, you don't have to buy Apple hardware to get Mac OS legally. Check out this: http://www.psystar.com/
    There's no reason to get ripped off on hardware just to get Mac. Windows, Linux, and Mac all happily run on x86 processors.
     
  47. I am back but gotta go to bed ... the ol'brain in unable to keep going for now.
    I'll answer to all tomorrow.
    cheers.
    JP
     
  48. Back to the original post...so computer was fast, then new ram it was slow.. So why don't you check to see if the ram is bad? Why go through all of this without seeing if your perfectly good computer can't be easily sorted out. Seems kind of rediculuous to me. Why people feel some need to start up this thred every few weeks escapes me. You could of done a search and gotten all the same opinons.
     
  49. My entire firm uses Mac's exclusively for work (web design & web development). At home I use a PC and a 24" Samsung monitor for photo editing (with Lightroom 2.1 & Photoshop CS3). I have mutual respect for both platforms, but honestly I prefer photo editing on a Mac. When the time comes to replace the PC at home, it'll be swapped out to a Mac.
    Anytime you bring up this question you'll bring out the enthusiates for both sides. Almost as if you asked which is better, Canon or Nikon. The truth is they are both great, with their fair share of strengths and weaknesses. The key is to find what works for you personally. If you're sick of a PC, its time to try to test out a Mac and see if it works better for you. Hopefully your brother in law doesn't live too far away.
     
  50. I can only think of a couple of instances were adding ram would slow down the computer (actually one that would and one that might). If one of the ram modules was bad, that definitely would. The computer tries to use the ram and things get really slow (or stop altogether). That's a frustrating problem because the few times I've had ram go bad, it acts like an OS problem--freezes, blue screens, slow downs. I once built a computer and one of the ram modules was bad out of the box. It took me days to track down why I couldn't get Windows to install correctly. In the shotgun approach I took to figuring it out, I downloaded a ram checker and bingo, bad ram module. Bad ram seems to be much more of a problem now than it was a few years ago (I've run into bad modules 3 or 4 times in the last few years), so I suspect this may be your problem.
    The scenerio that might cause a slow down (not entirely sure, maybe someone with more experience can help/correct me): If you were running Vista with just under the minimum requirement for Aero and then added enough ram to be just over the minimum requirement and you had Windows managing the performance. You may not notice a difference until you started using software that was ram intensive. This would be easy to check, just disable Aero and tell Windows to optimize for performance.
    You might also check to see what size paging file Windows is using. If you added ram, Windows may assume that you don't need as large a swap file and it may have reduced it without you knowing it. Then, when you run something ram intensive, you run out of room in the swap file. I think that's unlikely and I don't know what the Windows policy is for determining or changing the size of the swap file, but this is also easy to test. Just go into Windows performance section and increase the size of the paging file.
    Good luck.
     
  51. I had used a PC for all my editing for just about 8 years. This past March I purchased my first Mac, a MacBook Pro. I couldn't be happier with my decision. I mostly edit with Lightroom, but occasionally use Photoshop. I still have a PC which I only use for Office applications.
    Bob
     
  52. I still have a PC which I only use for Office applications.
    This is perhaps the third post saying such. Why can't you guys use you your Mac for office work?
     
  53. A Mac to do Office work?! are you totaly crazy..i will never use one of my overpriced computer to do such a small ridiculous task. I prefer hiring someone with a PC for that ; )
     
  54. So is this why Mac MS Word doc's always come through totally messed up?
     
  55. I prefer hiring someone with a PC for that​
    I'll take $50 a pop to spell check each of your posts for you in Word (someone should!) ;-)
     
  56. Now that's funny
     
  57. Cool! can you do this in french, spanish and english? its cheaper than buying 3 software maybe ; )
     
  58. Go for the mac. The mac are better for a couple of reasons:
    Better for photos and video
    Better customer support based in the US not in Inida
    Apple care comes with 3yr warrantee
    better parts are put into macs
    comes with all the software that is lacking in PC
    don't need anti-viris since macs don't get viris
    less maintence to deal with
    most programs are user friendly
    The down side is the price laptops stare at $999
    If you can afford go for it. I used to own a PC and hated it wasted lots of my time with crashes and bugs, spyware, etc. Always upgrading spyware, anti-viris etc, not with the mac. It cost only $29 to upgrade the operating system
     
  59. Can someone please expound on WHY a Mac is better than a PC for photo/video applications? I see absolutely zero hardware advantage, and if anything else, the mac hardware is inferior, despite the excellent engineering that goes into the design of the unit as a whole.
    Oh, and you shouldn't even consider a switch if you've never used a Mac. It actually still drives me nuts after, although I'm very proficient with OSX after using and servicing them for the past 4 years.
    And seriously, if messed up ram is the issue, have a tech look at it, and worst comes to worst, buy some new ram. DDR2 is cheap nowadays. I got some Corsair Dominator DDR2 modules (basically the best stuff there was) for less than $50USD... which would have been unheard of a year or two ago.
     
  60. too all the little fish that bite everytimesssssss on the *mac is better at this* or *pc is better than this because*...
    Please, just get the concept of BOTH are good , BOTH are equal in many ways, BOTH are fast , a Mac is 2x more expensive , and you get more power / memory / HD for your money with a PC for less money.
    Both can have virus IF unprotect, BOTH can be drive by idiot / stupid / computer saavy / expert.
    and finally, BOTH when in Photoshop / Ligthroom look approximatly the same
    Anything new to the equation anyone wants to add? something that have never been said in the past 20 years of this endless Mac vs PC war / debate? Let's start something new like film vs digital instead ; )
     
  61. Anything new to the equation anyone wants to add? something that have never been said in the past 20 years of this endless Mac vs PC war / debate? Let's start something new like film vs digital instead ; )​
    SUN makes a good SPARCstation..... and.... I am totally suprised the mod has not shut down this thread yet....
     
  62. No, the biggest difference is the OS. Mac OS X is a fast, efficient, secure OS with features that really do improve the end user experience.
    Daniel, contary to popular belief, you don't have to buy Apple hardware to get Mac OS legally. Check out this:http://www.psystar.com/
    There's no reason to get ripped off on hardware just to get Mac. Windows, Linux, and Mac all happily run on x86 processors.​
    The only way to get OSX is to buy Apple.
    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/05/26/psystar_files_for_bankruptcy_likely_delaying_apple_case.html
     
  63. I've used both...if you want printer problems use a Mac with Leopard and CS4.
    Newer printers aren't so bad, but printers only a few years old will turn your hair gray...
    Worst thing is...I still prefer the Mac....
     
  64. a Mac is 2x more expensive , and you get more power / memory / HD for your money with a PC for less money.
    That's a myth. Before buying my MacBook I compared it to what was available from Dell, HP, etc. I knew I was going to get a MacBook, but I just wanted to see what I would be paying in "Apple tax". Truly equivalent machines (motherboard speed, RAM speed, GPU, size and weight, warranty, etc.) were within about $200-$300 of the price of the MacBook I was looking at but did not have aluminum unibody enclosures, big glass multitouch trackpads, backlit keyboards, etc. All things considered I didn't pay more. If I had wanted to save that money I could have gotten the plastic MacBook which would have been the body equivalent of the PC notebooks I looked at.
    I could have gotten something bigger, heavier, with less battery life and a slower motherboard, but with similar CPU/RAM size/HD for less. Lots of models emphasize those three metrics but skip on other things and you have to be careful of that. You also have to remember that there's a serious Vista performance penality and then another performance penalty to run AV software which means with equal hardware the Windows machine is going to be slower on many tasks.
    I'm not going to say it's impossible to show a large price/hardware difference on paper. Pick an Apple model that's due for a refresh and a no name clone. Build the PC yourself. Or just gloss over the specs ignoring things like motherboard and RAM speed. But those types of comparisons aren't entirely honest.
    Both can have virus IF unprotect
    Mac OS X does not have a thousand security holes by which a virus can install itself. There are only a handful of malware packages in the wild for Mac OS X, and they all require the user to download and launch the package, then enter their password for installation. The overwhelming majority of Mac users go through their entire Mac ownership never owning AV software and never having an infection.
    There are literally hundreds of thousands of viruses out there for the PC, most of which can install themselves while you're simply copying a file or viewing a web site. The overwhelming majority of Windows users have multiple infections throughout their ownership even while running AV software. Many never even realize their machines are infected, they just assume Windows slows down on its own and then reformat the hard drive.
    Let me repeat: I cannot begin to express to you how unsecure Windows is, or how dangerous it is that much of our business and infrastructure rests on Windows PCs. Windows should be outlawed from critical applications and Microsoft should face a class action lawsuit. The engineering in terms of security is just horrible and it has gone on far too long.
     
  65. I use my iMac at home for all the fun stuff. For the boring sh*t my PC does the job.
     
  66. Let me repeat: I cannot begin to express to you how unsecure Windows is, or how dangerous it is that much of our business and infrastructure rests on Windows PCs. Windows should be outlawed from critical applications and Microsoft should face a class action lawsuit. The engineering in terms of security is just horrible and it has gone on far too long.

    I've been hearing this since the 80's so please settle down, the sky is not falling and you're just repeating your ignorance, Daniel. The same design principles that allow anyone, you, me, to write legit software for PC (thumbs up) are the same ones that allow people take advantage to write malicious code. The alternative, your alternative, is to have a closed OS like Unix and have everything approved (like it is with Mac) before being released. That's even a more dangerous situation and isn't going to happen. 96% of the computing world tend to agree.
     
  67. Answering to:"Back to the original post...so computer was fast, then new ram it was slow.. So why don't you check to see if the ram is bad? Why go through all of this without seeing if your perfectly good computer can't be easily sorted out. Seems kind of rediculuous to me. Why people feel some need to start up this thred every few weeks escapes me. You could of done a search and gotten all the same opinons."
    Barry:
    I will try to answer to your comment in a diplomatic manner.
    Yes computer was fast, became slow when new RAM was added. RAM has been checked: good RAM. Checked everything else, including benchmarks at the lab: all OK ... latest Windows "update" with Service Pack 3 seems to be at fault ... why? Nobody knows why!
    Solution has been found:
    1. added 2Gb of RAM to the original 2 Gb totaling now 4Gb ... DDR2 in dual channel.
    2. added one HDD in RAID with the original one, RAID 0;
    3. changed motherboard, and processor for a dual core.
    4. added Photoshop CS4 as an update to CS3.
    5. paid in cash upon receipt.
    Results: lightning fast processing, even with batch processing 8 bits TIFF files.
    But that did not answer my question as to whether I should consider getting a MAC. Now my perfectly good PC computer will likely last another six months or so before it starts to act up again, then we shall see if an Apple Mac is still an option.
    Some people browse through all Mac vs. PC threads and are not getting solutions, so some people will try to get answers, and that includes me.
    I apologize for having upset you with this thread, I'll try and be more careful next time before I post a redundant question.
    JP
     
  68. Ross: thank you for the input and the great link!
    JP
     
  69. Garrison: great response, and appreciated.
    I will experiment a bit with the new setup of the PC, just revamped and see what happens during the next few weeks. Once, Win 7 comes out, I'll be able to add a few Gb's of RAM, and under a 64 bits environment, that should work ok.
    I still think the Mac SEEMS to be an easier machine to work with but, I have been told I was wrong before.
    Again, thanks for the reply.
    JP
     
  70. Thomas, I did all of the required testing as you mentioned and the local comp teckies finally fix the problem. Nobody knows why but adding the RAM (tested good) and getting SvcPack 3 from windows apparently caused some conflicts. We will never know which one of the two caused the slow-down, maybe it was a combination or maybe it was just plain old bad luck.
     
  71. Harry: thanks for your reply and also for the warning. I am just hoping the new setup will have fixed the problem once and for all.
    JP
     
  72. Jacques, as a Mac user since 1984 I'll sing their praises for a long time. But it seems like your problems are related to the RAM. Have you tested other chips in there? The place that built it for you should have the skills to at least give you a diagnosis.
    Hi Michael: It wasn't the RAM after all ... because the same set is being used with a different setup and all is well. Hopefully, this PC issue won't ever surface again. It has been a nightmare.
     
  73. ... back for more replies soon ... gotta go!
    Cheers to all until tonight or tomorrow.
    JP
     
  74. Daniel:
    Build the PC yourself.
    Yes, this is really the only way to buy a computer and get what you want without getting ripped off.
    Or just gloss over the specs ignoring things like motherboard and RAM speed. But those types of comparisons aren't entirely honest.
    Building you can buy hardware with better (or at least equal) specs than the Mac Pro's for less money. 24GB of RAM vs. 3 GB the 24GB is going to win, even if it's not quite as quick. And it isn't as though Apple is the only company with the rights to sell fast RAM. Mac motherboards aren't better than top of the line from Asus, DFI, etc.
    Also, even if Psystar lost the court case, I would still argue that it's silly to pay for either Mac OS or Windows. Install Ubuntu - it gets updated all the time, is as virus-safe as it gets, and will still run Photoshop CS3 and other Windows apps just fine with Wine. Oh, and it's free . And, contrary to popular belief, it really is no less user friendly than Mac or Windows.
     
  75. I've been hearing this since the 80's so please settle down, the sky is not falling and you're just repeating your ignorance, Daniel.
    Let's take a look at some of the ignorant things you said in your post.
    First of all, this is not the 1980's. We live in an interconnected world where malware can spread rapidly, crippling systems or harvesting private information along the way. In the 1980's there might have been a few hundred viruses, and there was no real threat of spyware or of a 3rd party controlling your computer for their purposes because the Internet was not in wide use. Viruses were written by hackers mainly for show, and they spread very slowly if at all.
    There are now hundreds of thousands of viruses with very targetted goals. How do you think DoS attacks are orchestrated against large targets? How do you think spam is broadcast, or illegal files distributed? Zombie PCs for the most part. Was any of that a threat in the 1980's? New malware now appears at a rate faster than AV developers can keep up with. Did that happen at any time in the 1980's? Today private information is routinely harvested by spyware and used by 3rd parties. The term wasn't even in existence in the 1980's. (It's first use was in 1995, and it was the late 1990's when the spyware world exploded and became a serious threat.)
    The landscape is nothing like it was back in the 1980's. Whatever you heard in the 1980's has no bearing on today. And nobody should be listening to someone whose security knowledge comes from the 1980's.
    The same design principles that allow anyone, you, me, to write legit software for PC (thumbs up) are the same ones that allow people take advantage to write malicious code.
    This is absolutely false. The Windows "design principles" (i.e. security errors) which allow malware to self install, control a machine, and spread like wild fire are not required by any legitimate software.
    The alternative, your alternative, is to have a closed OS like Unix and have everything approved (like it is with Mac) before being released.
    UNIX a closed system? Mac software requires Apple approval? LOL! Garrison, you don't even begin to know what you're talking about.
    You can get the source code to just about any flavor of UNIX, including the Darwin core of Mac OS X. UNIX is all about open source and open standards that people can easily access and contribute to. Can you get any of the source code to Windows? Nope. Can you contribute code and APIs to Windows? Nope. Which one is closed again?
    As for Apple, you can ship your Mac applications at any time without Apple knowing or caring. Apple does not "require approval" of Mac apps in any way, shape, or form.
    I can't believe I'm debating security with someone who thinks UNIX is closed and Apple approves Mac software...
     
  76. Ubuntu rules. I run the 64-bit version of it and it's so fast.
     
  77. Build the PC yourself.
    Yes, this is really the only way to buy a computer and get what you want without getting ripped off.
    I disagree. My time is worth more than the premium spent on buying a built computer from a manufacturer with a good reputation and warranty. That's true for most people. Besides, notebooks are now more popular than desktops, and you can't build something like a Unibody MacBook.

    Install Ubuntu - it gets updated all the time, is as virus-safe as it gets, and will still run Photoshop CS3 and other Windows apps just fine with Wine. Oh, and it's free . And, contrary to popular belief, it really is no less user friendly than Mac or Windows.
    Wine is very hit or miss. There are commercial packages built on Wine that offer greater compatibility than Wine by itself, and even those are far short of what's needed. I've looked into Wine a couple times for clients and it never measured up. In both cases the clients went with virtual machines instead. We're not talking about obscure software that they needed to run either.
    And this is one time I will have to go with popular belief: Linux is not as easy to use as Mac OS X, or even Windows. Linux can be a real pain when it comes to software installation, compatibility, and maintenance. Sometimes a task in Linux is as easy as navigating a GUI, and other times it requires command line and configuration file nonsense that only a dateless nerd could appreciate. Stuff that would make the eyes of a Windows expert glaze over. Linux is never going to succeed on the desktop until it becomes easier to use across the entire OS, all tasks, applications, and configuration options.
     
  78. opps, sorry Daniel, I ment Mac's version of Unix, not Unix in general. But you probably knew that.
     
  79. Where's the OFF buttom for this thread?
     
  80. you can't build something like a Unibody MacBook.

    I certainly agree with that. I believe that the lower-end Macbooks are absolutely worth the cost for such a beatiful machine. They truly are a work of art. And tough too!

    Linux can be a real pain when it comes to software installation, compatibility, and maintenance.

    Not with modern mainstream distros. With Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, etc. you will have a package manager that takes care of all the software installation. In fact, I think there's no easier way to install software. You go to "Add/remove programs," search for the ones you'd like, select them, and press "install."
    Ubuntu also automates installing updates, just like Windows or Mac. I almost never need to use command line - I only do when it makes things more simple for me. I use command prompts in Windows and Mac OS similarly often.
    Wine, for a photographer, will work fine with Photoshop CS3. Not sure about Lightroom. And, as you mentioned, running a virtual Windows machine inside Linux is simple as well if needed.
    I understand Linux is not for everybody, but it is great for a many. And it can save a whole lot of money too compared to purchasing equivalent software (I'm happy with GIMP over Photoshop the majority of the time).
     
  81. Not with modern mainstream distros. With Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, etc. you will have a package manager that takes care of all the software installation. In fact, I think there's no easier way to install software. You go to "Add/remove programs," search for the ones you'd like, select them, and press "install."
    Ever have that go wrong? :) I have. The fact that you need a "package manager" hints at an underlying design philosophy that did not put ease of use first and foremost. Same thing with Windows Add/Remove control panel and over reliance on installers. Apple got this stuff right back in 1984. Ideally an application should be a self contained icon that you drag/drop to install or remove. Likewise with OS additions. (Unfortunately Apple lost this as far as the OS is concerned when moving to X.)

    Wine, for a photographer, will work fine with Photoshop CS3. Not sure about Lightroom. And, as you mentioned, running a virtual Windows machine inside Linux is simple as well if needed.
    Granted.
    I understand Linux is not for everybody, but it is great for a many. And it can save a whole lot of money too compared to purchasing equivalent software (I'm happy with GIMP over Photoshop the majority of the time).
    I can agree with that.
     
  82. "What if I get a Mac, then it breaks down ?"
    You could buy a Dell instead and spend your time talking to techs in India. And they'll mail you parts if anything needs to be replaced. Been there, done that. Never again!
     
  83. So Jacques, it looks like it's working well now. That's great, you probably saved yourself some cash. I thinkk it will probably last for more than 6 mos.
    Every other opinion here about mac/pc has been stated many times this year. I just was pointing out that according to the terms of service, we are suppose to search threads for similar topics before starting a new one. Just saves bandwidth.
    So other than that, I would say that when you really do need a new computer, the answer is obvious. Mac ;>P
     
  84. Before I start, I need full disclosure, I write for the Cult of Mac blog (http://cultofmac.com), so I have a pretty clear bias on the topic....
    ------------------
    Short answer to your question: "Should I switch from a PC to a Mac?": NO!


    Seriously, just don't . Vast proliferation of iPhones into the hands of toothless Appalachian Hillbillies has so intruded into the "Macintosh Cool Kids Club" (or as we at the Cult refer to it, "The Cult"), I just don't think I could stand the notion of another PC user hitting up the forums asking how to right click on a mouse with just one button.
    Really, Stay with the PC . It will be fine. You can run Lightroom on it, and Microsoft PROMISES, Windows 7 will be better, safter, and more stable, and you can take the money you'd save and buy yourself a Zune or something.
     
  85. I was at a pro photo forum in NY a few years back to do with a gallery opening. I was there for a reason totally unrelated to photography. I had the opportunity to stick my head in listen to folks and see some presentations. Lucky me.
    As part of their gear, every pro photographer now universally has a laptop. I saw no PC's. Every single laptop was a Mac running PS or Aperture. They had their pro photo gear and Macs all around. We are talking maybe 60 photographers for fashion and journalism (Magnum folks), and not a single Windows machine in sight.
    They say if you want to shoot like a pro, use pro equipment. OK, we get it. Well, if you follow the equipment trend, pro photographers use Macs. Every single ad agency I've been in uses Macs. I've worked in film and advertising for 20 years and the Mac installed base has waxed and waned, but now it is on a major upswing, largely because it has cachet, but also on its technical merits. It's a pro package and you know what you get.
    It's not PC versus Mac. It's pro versus something else.
     
  86. As part of their gear, every pro photographer now universally has a laptop. I saw no PC's. Every single laptop was a Mac running PS or Aperture. They had their pro photo gear and Macs all around. We are talking maybe 60 photographers for fashion and journalism (Magnum folks), and not a single Windows machine in sight.
    Not a single one, eh? Don't know about the rest of you still tuned in, but I don't buy it.
     
  87. "The ironing is delicious!" - Bart Simpson
     
  88. I don't know whether to laugh or cry; the way people form emotional attachments to temporary machines is unhelpful to everyone, especially themselves.
    "The important thing to remember is that peace comes from within your own heart and mind, not from some outside source, and when you refuse to be disturbed by things about you, life will flood your being with dynamic energy."
    --Anonymous
    "If only I could throw away the urge to trace my patterns in your heart, I could really see you." --David Brandon (Zen in the Art of Helping)
    "Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts. Develop the mind of equilibrium. You will always be getting praise and blame, but do not let either affect the poise of the mind: follow the calmness, the absence of pride." --Sutta Nipata
     
  89. "Hi, I'm a Mac." -- Mac
    "And I'm a PC." -- PC
     
  90. (Sorry Brad, I couldn't resist ;-)
     
  91. Mac vs PC ... what to do?
    Shoot film. Process in a wet darkroom, print in a wet darkroom. Stay happy. ;-)
     
  92. We have a two platform household, my husband a true geek and writer loves his PC and Windows, I have a Mac. Every day I go off t work and use PCs and Windows programing and am well versed in both platforms. The biggest problem I have moving between platforms is that Mac "simplifies" things for a user. Answers can be right there and if you are thinking in Windows you will be looking at trees and missing the entire forest. For example, why is there no number loc key on the Mac keyboard? It is on all the time, so it is not necessary.
    When I got a chance to go back to a Mac for photography I ran to it! There are great things going for Windows, the poster who said the issue was much like the eternal Canon vs Nikon argument has it right. It is what machine is right for YOU. The only thing I would suggest is to look at both the iBook and iMac as in time you will probably want a portable unit to go along with your desktop. Pretty is as pretty does and make sure that is a fit to if you decide to swing the Mac way.
    Macs seem to inspire a cult like following all over the world, honestly, there has to be a reason for it. Find an Apple Store, friendly Mac owner or a machine somewhere and play with the beast and find out why. There is a reason for such loyalty, you just need to find out if you are an Apple or an orange.
     
  93. After years of performance and stability issues with Windows computers i bought a MacBook Pro 2.66ghz/4GB RAM last weekend.
    It might be early days, but i wish i had bought Mac sooner. It's fast, easy to configure and runs all my editing software smoothly.
     
  94. "Future PC just froze." - Justin Long
     
  95. I have 2 macs and 2 PC's, I like them both but for different things. I would definitely recommend a Mac for photo and video processing provided you don't have a huge investment in Windows based software. I use my Mac exclusively for photography. It seems to do a nice job and the 24" LCD monitor is not only useful being that large, it has great color and depth. I also have a laptop but I don't do a lot of post on it.
     
  96. Bad choice, imo. XP-64 isn't updated by MS anymore.​
    Hmm. It still updates for me via Windows update. All XP versions will be officially supported by MS (including updates) until 2014.
    I agree about Win7. It is just so fast, easy and intuitive. Put a 64 bit i7 system together with lots of RAM (I build my own for my precise needs without wasting money). You'll wait for nothing anymore (except video encoding/decoding which takes far less time). It's nice that when it will be released in Oct. we can take advantage of the $50 upgrade directly from the pre-release version without having to re-install our old XP/Vista discs.
    -----------------------------------
    The hardware's the same folks. Jerks write viruses and malware for Windows so it will spread faster via the larger user base. But with up-to-date protection it's not a problem.
    And as soon as Adobe releases a 64 bit version for the Mac, then it's all down to OS preference - if we're only talking about photography. That's the only real difference for photographers.
    So why are we arguing personal preference? I like tea better than coffee. That argument would have just as much meaning here (none).
     
  97. Both systems are highly useable. If I had not just been "streamlined" (another politcally correct term for layoffs) I would be buying a 24" iMac just for photography, but I would continue to use PCs.
    Give this a try:
    Go to the Apple website and configure an iMac That is easy and you know just waht you are getting.
    Now, go to the Dell website and try to configure a Dell with similar specifications. Difficult...isn't it?
    I am not saying that configuring a Dell with a multitude of options is a bad thing. Not at all. Some will like the simplicity of the iMac. Starting price will be higher, but it basically has everything you need. The Dell will have many options. Prices may start low but you need to know what you are doing to get one configured correctly and with a graphics card to meet your needs.
    One thing to watch out for with Dell: if you configure a new computer you may have discounts added. If you go back in and reconfigure the same computer, you may get a higher price as the discount no longer applies. If this happens...remove the dam cookie Dell has added and try again. This is one nasty little trick that Dell tries to pull on its customers.
     
  98. The hardware's the same folks. Jerks write viruses and malware for Windows so it will spread faster via the larger user base. But with up-to-date protection it's not a problem.
    I realize I'm repeating myself here, but I can't believe the common misconceptions out there about Windows security. Jerks write malware for Windows because they can. Windows has more security holes and exploitation points than the other OSes by several orders of magnitude. I would guess that about 98% of the malware for Windows simply could not be ported to Mac OS X, Unix, or Linux even if the malware authors were desperate to do so because the holes they exploited don't exist on those OSes.
    Up to date AV software helps, but is no guarantee. I've cleaned plenty of systems with up to date AV that none the less had been compromised.
     
  99. You pay a premium for MAC accessory items (monitors, memory, hard drives, etc.) As an example, the same OEM manufacturer that provides monitors to Apple also supplies Dell and others. The Dell Ultrasharp 24" is essentially the same guts as the MAC 24" Cinema display except the Dell has superior I/O capability, a three year advanced exchange warranty and sells typically for about $450.00 discounted. The Apple version now has LED backlighting which essentially brings nothing to the party. If housing the guts in a stylish aluminum case and paying for $800 or so for a monitor with a one year warranty and the Apple logo is important, then that is what you should get.
     
  100. Windows has more security holes and exploitation points than the other OSes by several orders of magnitude.​

    Care to back that up with links/articles? I've been using Windows since 3.1, and NEVER had a problem with hardware, software, malware, viruses...anything, and I used to do a lot of overclocking.

    Like anything, the more users there are the more problems that get reported because THERE ARE MORE. You are hearing issues from people who inadvisably don't use protection or open email attachments from unknown users.


    Macs are affected by this too. If you're using a Mac without protection, I think it's very possible you're infected without knowing it. Trojans (the most common) load onto any machine without notifying you, and do their dirty work in the background. It's a good idea to run at least an AV trial to see what's up, Mac or PC; you might be surprised.
     
  101. To the OP, if your tired of waiting, look into RAID drive configurations.
     
  102. MAC! Besides all of the other reasons listed - I'm sure all valid (I don't have time to read all of them I'm leaving the office), Macs are simply more secure than PC's. I work around many IT people and they will all tell you that the Windows is swiss cheese when it comes to security, PC's in general are. I switched about a year ago and love the MAC.
     
  103. I realize I'm repeating myself here, but I can't believe the common
    misconceptions out there about Windows security. Jerks write malware for
    Windows because they can. Windows has more security holes and exploitation
    points than the other OSes by several orders of magnitude.

    Yet the whole world revolves around Windows. Do you worry every time you bank and buy groceries? Nevertheless, can you please show us where anyone has said, here or elsewhere, that Windows is secure? Or more importantly, that you feel it is topic of concern to the OP and you need to keep bringing it up? While talking about it though, h ow do you feel about that OSX was the weakest of three OS to be hacked in a the hacking competition hosted by CanSecWest Vancouver 2008 ?

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-Hacked-Vista-SP1-Hacked-Ubuntu-Linux-Survives-Unscathed-82079.shtml

    Proof is in the pudding. I'd really like an explanation why, being that Mac is so wonderful, that they hardly have any market share? It seems odd to me that having a computer for three years and the $300 to $500 difference between a Dell and a Mac would be a no-brainer (if Mac was so great) and one would think that a larger portion of the population would pay the extra 20% to avoid all the so called PC faults he seems fixated on? They've nearly filled for bankruptcy twice, and if it wasn't for today's defrayed profits of iPod/iPhone, they surely be there again.
    He actually uses both a PC and a Mac, the latter specifically for post processing and all video stuff. He tells me that he never had one single instant of trouble with it for the past one year he's had this Mac machine.

    Most of the windows problems are self inflicted. I've never had trouble on Windows. I switched from Mac (PPC 8500) and have had great success with building PC's from great parts at newegg. A clean install of Windows with good AV software along with safe internet & email practices and there isn't much more to it.
    He raves about the fast post processing, even with large TIFF files and batch processing TIFF files.

    Sujective. Dollar for dollar, PC's are quicker. Photoshop CS4 is 64-bit for Windows-64 bit OS only. CS4 is a slug on Mac's compared to Vista 64.
    We have no Apple stores in my little home town and after asking around different shops, Mac-knowledgeable people are practically non-existant here. What if I get a Mac, then it breaks down ?
    For this very reason, Mac would be out of the question for me.

    Truly, I am getting a bit annoyed with recurring Windows/PC issues; I don't have time for sitting in front of the screen, waiting for an image to finish its rendering under CS3. I need something reliable and fast. Am I fooling myself?
    This has nothing to with PC's and everything to do with hardware. You'd have the same experience on an old Mac.
     
  104. To the OP, if your tired of waiting, look into RAID drive configurations.​
    Yes! I have discovered that four 10K drives in RAID0 makes for an awesome photography workstation. Even with everything on that one array, the performance is astonishing. Add a lot of RAM, 64 bit everything and you're good to go for a long time.
    I've been using eSATA for my external backups now. It's available on many motherboards, and if your current motherboard has an Intel ICH9R or higher southbridge, you can do it by adding a simple, cheap bracket (after installing the Intel Matrix Storage Manager). The bracket was included in my Vantec NexStar external enclosure ($40 without drive). Have you ever seen a large backup fly? It's a beautiful thing.
     
  105. Make it stop! So what has been learned in this thread that hasn't been covered in the countless other threads on this tired subject?
     
  106. "What has been learned in this thread that hasn't been covered in the countless other threads on this tired subject?"​
    That we should have a separate Mac vs. PC forum dedicated solely to these monthly threads?
     
  107. Yes, stop. We're arguing personal preferences. Is there a less useful debate? I don't think so!
    See there was this Pentecostal Preacher’s son who was having trouble understanding God, so he asked his father about Him.
    The preacher looked down at his son and said:
    “Son, God is not a man, and God is not a woman.
    God is not gay, and God is not straight.
    God is not black, and God is not white.”
    So the boy looks up and says, “Daddy, is God Michael Jackson?”


    too soon?
     
  108. Brad - Care to back that up with links/articles?
    Read Microsoft security advisories until your eyes glaze over.
    Like anything, the more users there are the more problems that get reported because THERE ARE MORE. You are hearing issues from people who inadvisably don't use protection or open email attachments from unknown users.
    Keep spreading the myths. I have cleaned client machines that are fully protected, and the clients know not to open attachments, and yet still they have been compromised. The last time this happened the bill to my client was over $400 for the infection that had spread across his home office network despite Norton, Spybot, etc.
    If you've ever noticed, reviews of popular AV products rate them in their ability to catch recently released malware. They very often fall short of 100%.
    There was a time when all you had to do to compromise a Windows PC and execute code was get someone to view an image in IE or Windows Picture and FAX. That's it. Before the patch you could literally post an image to a forum and reap a harvest of PCs. That's one of the many Windows security advisories and patches that stick out in my mind as an example of utterly absurd MS engineering.
    Macs are affected by this too. If you're using a Mac without protection, I think it's very possible you're infected without knowing it. Trojans (the most common) load onto any machine without notifying you, and do their dirty work in the background.
    A Trojan is an application which appears legitimate but which does something it should not in the background. It cannot load onto any machine without notifying you. It must be launched by you. Viruses spread and load onto machines without notifying you.
    I think I've heard of three trojans for the Mac since Mac OS X was launched, and they were all limited in ability and easy to remove. One of the nasty things about Windows and malware infection is that there are hundreds of places where malware can hook into the OS, hide, and launch at startup. The registry alone is a virtual playground for hackers. You don't even need to be a particularly knowledgable programmer to trick the OS into keeping your malware around thanks to the registry. The registry is but one good example of stupid decisions by MS when it comes to security.
     
  109. Yet the whole world revolves around Windows. Do you worry every time you bank and buy groceries?
    As I stated earlier, I am very concerned that critical infrastructure and services often depend in some way on Windows. Countries like China and North Korea routinely probe U.S. networks looking for weaknesses. Only a fool would assume that somebody with ill intent could never hack into and shutdown a water or power plant. We should not be depending on the weakest OS when it comes to security.
    While talking about it though, h ow do you feel about that OSX was the weakest of three OS to be hacked in a the hacking competition hosted by CanSecWest Vancouver 2008 ?
    It's not the weakest of the three OSes, and this little hacker competition is not comparable to the malware world, it's a different beast entirely. How do you feel about the fact that there are maybe 10 in the wild malware packages for Mac OS X, none of which can effectively spread themselves, while there are hundreds of thousands of malware packages in the wild for Windows, most of which can spread themselves? The proof is in the pudding, isn't it?

    I'd really like an explanation why, being that Mac is so wonderful, that they hardly have any market share?
    One company trying to sell you premium priced computers is never going to have the market share of a hundred cloners trying to sell dirt cheap computers. Here's a better question for you: how could Apple survive and even grow with such small marketshare of premium priced computers in a Windows dominated world if their products weren't better?
    They've nearly filled for bankruptcy twice, and if it wasn't for today's defrayed profits of iPod/iPhone, they surely be there again.
    This is 2009, not the late 1990s when Apple suffered from management turmoil and poor direction. Right now they are one of the only safe bets on Wall St. precisely because of market shifts towards their products, especially the Mac line. See their last quarterly report (just released) and compare it to the reports of just about any other company in this nightmare economy, including MS whose Vista income stream never truly materialized because, well, users generally hate Vista.
     
  110. Yes, stop. We're arguing personal preferences. Is there a less useful debate? I don't think so!
    I've never understood this. If you want to stop, then stop. Nobody is forcing anyone to post in the thread. If you're posting it's because you're interested in the topic and like to share your opinion just like everyone else here.
    Same thing with the "search the archives" type responses. Guess what: photo.net is thrilled we're here generating conversation, page hits, and ad views. Don't kid yourself, nobody at photo.net is shaking their heads thinking "this again".
     
  111. Issues and problems vary with users.

    Some folks are always sick; other never require a doctor in a decade.

    Here I am on my 2nd washing machine since 1947.

    A used Nikon F I got in 1962 has never required a CLA yet.

    The RIP station(s) for the two commercial poster printers are from 1994; the last config is NT3.51; neither has any virus software; one unit was rebuilt last year when the hard drive had alot of errors; it would trend to freeze when a 100 + meg file was ripped. Reinstalling the OS on a old 1996 IBM HDA was the rebuild; next rebuild will be an IDE hard drive.

    Some folks like to click on stuff; practice bad hex; or use poor browsers and pickup manure from the internet or other folks files too.
    Mac is a religion to many; many goofed up their PC and then the Mac is a safe parent.

    These disgrunted former PC users are good; it allows one to get free or cheap PC's. The ones I have fixed often just had were really dumb things; a full HDA; never defragged. There is nothing wrong with Macs; or instamatics; or P&S cameras. :)

    PC versus Mac is good; it brings great values.
    Many Mac users seem to think that all PC users have ALL these weird woes and troubles; since THEY had/have PC issues.

    This FTP box I am on is a free box from a former PC user; now a Mac dogma preacher. It was called total garbage by its former owner. It is an older box; a P4 Prescott; 2.8 Ghz with 1 meg cache. I trashed its slower 20 Gig had and installed a 160 Gig 3 years ago. Then I bumped the ram from 128megs to 2 gigs; its max. The old user had XP and 128 megs; a full HDA; a cesspool of crud. Today it runs one of my FTP sites; & a web site. It will rotate a 500 meg image 90 degrees in 2 2 seconds. It will rotate one of our 35Mpixel 105 meg files in 0.3 seconds. It is just a single core CPU. Our dual CPU 333Mhz box from 1996/98 will rotate a 105 meg file 90 degrees in 7 seconds wih 512 megs of ram. The basically free FTP/web box is faster than our 2 Ghz Imac 20" unit with core; it cost 2 grand; the ftp box 100 bucks maybe with 2gig ram and a 160 gig hda. Both the FTP box and Imac 20" "just work".
     
  112. ...Importantly, this all started when I replaced the 2 x 1Gb RAM with 2 x 2 Gb RAM.
    Mac vs. PC...this discussion has gotten way to philosophical to be useful, so I just going to put my 20 cents in to solve the "issue." My first question would be is are you using Windows XP (the 32-bit version and not the 64-bit version)? In a nutshell, 32-bit XP can only handle 3GB of RAM. Once you install more than 3GB, the additional memory now comes into conflict with other devices that have built in RAM (such as your video card, network controller, hard disk controller, etc.). This can make a PC appear to run slow, or simply "lock up" and become non responsive. So, if you still have that old memory (and it's of the same type as the new), you may want to swap out one of those 2GB sticks with the 1GB. There are some rules to this, depending on the type of memory.
    If you really want a Mac, go for it. I think they're fine computers (except for the chicklet keyboards, I just can't get used to those)...
     
  113. I am a software engineer, this is my opinion: If you are rich, then go and buy a Mac, if you are middle class and work hard for your money, then buy the best PC with the best video card you can afford. Hardware, software, and tech support is a lot cheaper for a PC than for MAC. i think the key is on how you set up your system. This is what I recommend on setting up a PC:
    (1) Buy a 2nd hard drive, open the PC case and plug it in (It will most likely be recognized automatically)
    (2) Move all your documents, pictures, videos,etc to the 2nd hard drive. The main advantage of this approach is that your data is not merged with Windows. In case any disasters, either hardware or software happens, your data is not Depending on Windows. Other advantages are (b) better performance (c) more space
    (3) Install antivirus, and all the software you want in first hard drive. Install Norton Ghost and make a GHOST IMAGE on the 2nd hard drive. This will make a compressed copy of the first hard drive.
    (4) Do not install any crap you do not use.
    (5) Enjoy
     
  114. Its 11pm, im on my camping site, its pooring rain..and im surfing the web with my macbook pro and a Iphone 3GS connected via bluetooth, while the Iphone is on a speaker playing music..mmmm life is good AND simple ; )
    Can you do that with a PC? Sure, my girlfriend have done it all day with my Iphone 3Gs.. she decide to bring some work outside her office for the day, answering all her email from here while i was relaxing in front a camp fire.. life is serioulsy really really good when you know how to use the technologie LOL.
     
  115. I've never understood this. If you want to stop, then stop. Nobody is forcing anyone to post in the thread. If you're posting it's because you're interested in the topic and like to share your opinion just like everyone else here.​
    Have a good weekend!
     
  116. In a nutshell, 32-bit XP can only handle 3GB of RAM.​
    Um, no. A 32 bit machine can see 4GB. With Windows and hardware overhead you have 3.5GB available to programs. If you have 3GB then you only have 2.5GB for your programs, and if you have a dual-channel memory controller, you just disabled its increased speed.
    the additional memory now comes into conflict with other devices that have built in RAM (such as your video card, network controller, hard disk controller, etc.). This can make a PC appear to run slow, or simply "lock up" and become non responsive.​
    Um, no. If you can post proof of that, I'd love to read it, or are you guessing? I dual booted XP x64 and x32 with 12GB before going to Win7. No problems whatsoever. x32 cannot see anything over 4GB; to the OS it doesn't exist.
    See it's getting ridiculous. Now we have to correct more and more misinformation. Moderator?
     
  117. Can you do that with a PC?​
    C'mon Patrick are you seriously suggesting that tethering is exclusive to Macs? You know they also make these 3G card thingys that give you the Internet away from home too. A better question is, "Why would you want to 'surf the web' while camping with your GF?" If I did that with my honey, he'd be rightly pissed off.
     
  118. Brad, at least when you quote me do it correctly...
    Can you do that with a PC? SURE, my girlfriend have done it all day with my Iphone 3GS .. she decide to bring some work outside her office for the day, answering all her email from here while i was relaxing in front a camp fire.. life is serioulsy really really good when you know how to use the technologie LOL.
    "Why would you want to 'surf the web' while camping with your GF?"
    because she sleep since 10pm, and im not in bed usualy until midnight, i wake up at 6am during the week and 7am on the weekend..anything else you want to know my friend?
    appologie accepted ; )
     
  119. Yes my extended apologies, I wasn't reading it properly. I shouldn't read/type while tired - sleep time...
    Sorry
    Enjoy the trip!
     
  120. Jacques, I've been using Macs since the Mac Classic, never had any real problems especially since the change over to OS X. Two things to consider that are important, taking into account the 'photographic' issues, you would need to go for a Mac Pro. this is the only Mac in the current range that is expandable and for instance if and when the DVD drive gives up it would be a simple matter to order from the internet and replace yourself, most diagnostics can be done and solved these days over the internet. Another important issue is monitors, sadly Apple have opted out on this one, if you're a photographer and own a Mac Pro you have only one choice of monitor the 30" Cinema Display, for most people this would be too big and too expensive, the only other option is the new 24" led display which is very glossy and useless for colour calibration of any sort. I use an Eizo Flex Scan S2242W 23" display and find it excellent although I would rather Apple go back to producing an option of three sizes. Either way be prepared to spend a decent amount on a good monitor.
     
  121. My 25 cents. I use both PC and Mac. Personally, I find Macs much easier to use, more stable and more of a pleasure to use. However, someone who is used to using PC only is unlikely to share those opinions of mine, as he is not used to the Mac way of doing things. So that is not really any reason to switch.
    When it comes to photo software, to do serious things, you need serious software like Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture NX, DPP or whatever you consider best. All of the important ones exist on both PC and Mac. So that is not really any reason to switch either.
    Conclusion: toss a coin. Choose either platform, but learn to use it properly, and it will work fine.
     
  122. I think you need to watch a few more Mac vs PC commercials before you make up your mind.

    Here's a start for ya :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci2D1ig4df4
     
  123. For Mr. Smith, here's the proof:
    I didn't post it earlier because I thought it may be too technical.
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx
    Again, I stand by my opinion that Windows XP, in general, can't handle RAM over 3GB.
    Jacques, just try to reduce your memory from 4 to 3 GB, and see you still like your computer. If you don't, feel free to buy another one. Both Mac and PC are fine, but if you go the PC route, make sure you have a tech that can truly work with PCs and Multimedia Applications.
     
  124. Gosh this thread is taking off real big!
    OK, the point was to see the difference of opinions and suggestions offered. By the look of it, there are plenty of both.
    Having had the PC revamped with additional RAM and a new dual core processor, the performance must have increased ten-fold, in processing speed. This PC can handle 16 Gb of RAM, under a 64-bit environment. That combined with a RAID setup should do fine for a while, I hope! Those tech guys at the shop regularly set up video hungry 3D and gaming PC's. They know what they are doing. When I asked them if they would fix a Mac, if needed, the boss told me that he only had "some" basic experience with that. So, because we don't have a Mac dealer nearby, the after-sale service would probably be a nightmare.
    However, I still liked the "feel" of the Mac, having tried it for a little while at my brother-in-law's. Almost seem that everything runs smoother.
    Thanks to all for the various opinions, suggestions and details!
    JP
     
  125. My choice was simple. I booted up Photoshop and couldn't tell the difference between the two in performance. The Mac though cost more.
    I've had Windows workstations connect to the web for many years....never had a problem. I've connected new devices to the Wiondows machine....never had a problem.
    It seems the only real problems are the mental midgets who believe the Mac ads on TV.
     
  126. why always the need to be arogant to make a point?..but more importantly..how come this thread is still open? Its the same *X&$#**X&$#**X&$#**X&$#* days after days, thread after thread.. pc suck, mac suck, mine is bgger than yours, mine cost less / more than yours? your a idiot to think otherwise than me bla bla bla..really boring.
    Im going back to my expensive non sense machine that cost me 3k 2 years ago, and make my work easier day after day, knowing that i paid it 2 weeks after getting it..thats the important thing..being able to make money out of it fast..whatever you got or plan to buy, get something you can pay fast so you can switch to something better in need without losing anything. Then you ask yourself; do i need something better?
     

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