qtluong Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 As most of you know, this forum uses software and hosting outsourced by Philip Greenspun free of charge at the greenspun.com server. I received an advance notice from him that he will not be able to maintain this service. Some of you have already noticed a number of recent glitches with the service, which initially was flawless. <p> Ideally, someone would install the ACS software on another server (the Berkeley server would not work) and transfer the current forum data to it. However, this person cannot be me because I lack the skills to do that in a reasonable time. Therefore, to continue this forum, I see only two practical alternatives: <ul> <li> Pull out the data from the current server and archive it in some searchable ways. Then switch to another software system. This new system would be either ran from the LF page (with a new domain name), or could be outsourced to something like yahoo!groups. <li> Integrate the LF Forum to photo.net, like the MF Digest currently is. </ul> The problem with the first alternative is probably an inferior interface different from the one you are used to, plus possibly work for me and/or anybody who volunteer to help. The problem with the second alternative are the issues which we already <a href = http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003V53> discussed in length</a>. </ul> So what do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonard_robertson Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 "...could be outsourced to something like yahoo!groups." No, no, no. Please, anything but Yahoo!groups. I don't have an good answer to where this forum should go, but I have been a member of the mailing list hobbicast@yahoogroups.com for some time. It works fine until you want to do something like access the archives and then it is an absolute nightmare. It refuses to recognize passwords and just trying to find the archive among the God knows how many Yahoo groups is near impossible. This isn't just me. There have been several posts on hobbicast by people trying to get direction through the Yahoo maze. I hope I live to see Yahoo follow Enron into bankrupcy. I make a real effort not to rant on newsgroups, but this is a topic where I can't restrain myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_mahoney Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 As I type this reply, photo.net is down, a not uncommon occurance. I'd like to see this forum continue in its current commercial free, informative and mature style. Moving to a hosting service such as Yahoo or Photo.net will necessarily threaten these qualities, but if the first alternative is not too much work it would be my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_poulsen1 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 By all means, please preserve past threads. I vote, in some way, to keep this forum by finding another server as a host, installing the ACS on that platform. <p> What does ACS stand for? What is the software in which it's programmed. Is the ACS software available without royalties? You mentioned "advanced notice." When will Mr. Greenspun's service expire? <p> This is the best going forum I've been associated with, especially related to photography. I hope that there is something that can be done to continue its existance. <p> Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_brown1 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I see no major problems with going the Photo.net route. Shure, there might be some inconveniences, but as long as the content remains the same (and that's OUR job) the forum should continue to thrive. An added attraction of going with Photo.net is that we may broaden our audience and introduce new people and ideas to the forum. <p> Certainly anything is better than letting this forum languish and die, and I feel Photo.net has the best chance of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_oulman Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 -Q- <p> I may be able to help in the first option. Please email me with particulars and bandwidth history. Particularly details of the software requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilhelm Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 The Medium Format Forum doesn't seem to have suffered from it's association with Photo.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_leblanc Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 What about switching to an email list and using something like Mailman or Majordomo. That way everybody gets to choose their own interface from Hotmail to Pine. The archives could then be sorted by date, subject, etc. and people could easily search, browse, and download the raw data. Plus it probably won't be too hard to find a host since these programs run on pretty much any platform. <p> Other than that, I say merge with photo.net. Forget about Yahoo! or anything else like that, I definitely don't want to be held hostage to those services and I'd really like to avoid banner ads if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donald_brewster Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I would vote for LF to be made a part of photo.net in the same manner the Medium Format and Nature sites are. Definitely should be kept apart from the general forum. While not having the separate LF site would be unfortunate, being a more integral part of photo.net would be a better alternative than not having a LF gathering point at all. Many of us do participate in photo.net discussions and if nothing else, there would be a convenience to it. Photo.net does remain a central gathering point for much of the photographic community and it would be better for the LF group to formalize being a part of it -- in a sense we already are since we use Phil's server. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_waak Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I'd be willing to help with a transfer to a new system -- I'm an IT developer/architect by day and could probably help. I just have to believe there is a way to get ACS installed somewhere. If my options are Yahoo groups vs. Photo.net, I would choose photo.net. BUT, my priority is to save the old threads because there is just so much good information in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bradley1 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Photo.net does seem to be down a lot lately. It seems like we have a choice between an unreliable system (photo.net) and a hard-to-use system (Yahoo Groups). Can anyone suggest any other alternatives? <p> Tuan: does Phil have anything to say about the recent unrelability of photo.net? If there are known problems that are going to be fixed soon, then photo.net seems to be the obvious place to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygzr Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Assuming we can't get someone else to host us, photo.net is our best option. As chance would have it, they're down right now (sigh)! <p> We've been spoiled by good service in a non-commercial environment. Do you think Mr Greenspun would change his mind if we all cried and whimpered in unison? How about obsequious flattery? I'm prepared to try anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinesisphotogear Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 photo.net is my vote. I had posted previously why this wasn't part of that forum anyway. The format of the public groups like Yahoo or Google are very cumbersome to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_l._marvin Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Here's my vote for photo.net. The medium format digest is useful and it would be better to go that route versus yahoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_briggs2 Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I think photo.net would be a fine solution. My suggestion is for Q.-Tuan Luong to get a written document giving him (or the entire community) copyright to the postings that would be made at photo.net so that if something goes wrong with photo.net he would be able to transfer the LF postings at photo.net to somewhere else. The worst case scenario would be for photo.net to suddenly disappear and transfer its assests, including the contents of the photo.net site, to some creditor, the creditor then just placing them on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_chinn2 Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Between the options given, i would vote to merge with Photo.net. This site seems to attract quite a few people interested in moving up to large format and as someone else stated, the widest possible audience the forum can be exposed to the better for all of us in the long run. And by all means, keep the archives, it is a valuable storehouse of info that I look to first before posting questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_poulsen1 Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Please NOT photo.net. I've been on that site. In my opinion, the photonet interface is pretty ackward. I think part of the success of this site is due to the ease at which the ACS software enables one to leave posts and responses. <p> Also, we should thank Phil Greenspun for his support enabling this site to have such a strong beginning. And, we need to keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abiggs Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Actually, I would like to see the archived data moved into a newer system that has more seach capabilities. Here is a link to a very popular application: <p> http://www.discusware.com/discus/home/ <p> And it's free! <p> We would definitely benefit from being in the photo.net community, however. Tough choice. Definitely NO to the Yahoo groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riaan_lombard1 Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I have been with photo.net MF for some time now and from a software developers point of view I only have good things to say. It is much more reliable and user-friendly than the majority of forum/mail support systems out there, is tried and tested, has added security and likely guaranteed future support. All software are flawed, some less, some more. I would however like to add that I do not believe it is impossibly difficult to upgrade(or only keep alive) this system and that it would be my first choice. A NEW system is not a solution and neither the solution. <p> But whatever we decide, we must not/can not go the yahoo/whatever/.. route. We will fight in the cities. We will fight in the streets. We will fight in the fields... We will never give up :) Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry_dvorak Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 No to Yahoo. Yes to photo.net. <p> The more esoteric forums on photo.net (e.g. medium-format and Nature) have not been swamped with idiot questions nor are their threads controlled by people who have no idea what they're talking about. <p> It's been a great ride here, and I'm sorry to see it ending.... <p> ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_coutts Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I would go for either option. Yahoo has proved quite reliable, photo net locates the LF format in the subject area for browsers. I am sorry to see the list close <p> Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiba Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I've only been reading this forum for less than a year, but photo.net for a few more. It gets my vote, although I'd agree with a previous poster who said that the copyright should be held elsewhere. They've been getting a bit commercial of late. As to the interface being bad, you can switch off the JavaScript menus if you like, and it seems pretty stable compared with most other forums I've read. the other advantage is the number of other folks who'll no doubt be attracted to LF because of the sheer number of people that the forum will be exposed (sic) to. Or a disadvantage; TBA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_goldfarb Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I prefer the photo.net option to Yahoo!Groups, if an independent server cannot be found. The MF forum is fairly civilized, and I think this forum would be pretty much the same over there. We would also get the photo.net search engine, the ability to post images to the forum directly without having them on a separate site, and we could keep the structure of the list the same. <p> There is too much clutter and advertising at Yahoo, and it is difficult to include HTML in posts (long URL's are routinely truncated), and images have to be kept separate from the post itself, and it is difficult to follow long threads and return to old threads in that format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn_kroeger Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Despite some problems, I vote for photo.net. Many of us read other forums there already. Keep it as a separate topic, parallel to MF and Nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_gilles1 Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Please please please��don�t leave me! <p> Leave the forum run with the current software interface. The current forum interface works flawlessly in creating my own AvantGo �LF Forum Channel�. I download the forum two and three times a day to my Palm and read it offline, often in the field waiting for light. All other forum software is useless for this application and even clunky to read online. <p> Thank you for your consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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