The end of film and the Max 7

A few days ago I sent an e-mail to Minolta Corp and this is my

question and there answer.

 

 

 

Question is : Is the Maxxum 7(film) gone forever or is their a plan

for it to come back, or possibly an updated version in the future.

Thanks ross

 

Answer is : Kodak's stock dropped 25 percent since March. They just

replaced their CEO. That is where the film is or maybe not coming

from. Ilford just about went out of business. Agfa is on the blocks.

Fuji is holding on. Konica (yes, Konica Minolta) pro film is no

longer being produced. It is getting hard to find any good film to

put in a film camera. Don't think we will be seeing a serious film

camera in the future.

That's a shame. I guess maybe its time to take the digital leap. I hope that Minolta comes out with a higher megapixel DSLR soon though. I'd hate to have to switch systems.

Da-se!It's a real shame! I'm not very interested in changing to digital... i've got a fairly good camera and the D step is more of a leap!

There a few dozen large suppliers of film, B&H, Adorama to name a few,

which offer many types of film in many formats, black and white and color,

maybe the person who replied to your e-mail wasn't a photographer, but an

office dupe. This appears to be another "film is dead" rant by the neo-nerd/

computer/semi-photographer/shooting pictures of ducks with a $5,000 digital

camera just to bring it up on the computer, crowd, who for some pervise

reason like to push the "film is dead" thing, which is getting old after hearing

this for the last six or seven years. I do concue that Minolta will keep with its

track record of not making a serious film camera, I agree with you on that.

concue should read concur.

...and "pervise" should read...?

 

But seriously, regardless of who answered your mail or what his/her agenda might have

been. To me it illustrates one very serious point: How insecure many of us are becoming in

regard to film. I, too, find it more and more compelling to switch to digital - although

there isn't a single DSLR body out there that is appealing to me and that doesn't require a

mortgage. So for now I am holding on but I am well aware that film is dying and that the

switch is inevitable. It is like twenty or so years ago when people were resisting CDs,

hoping that vinyl would't die... It did (except for very specialized use).

This appears to be another "film is dead" rant by the neo-nerd/ computer/semi-photographer/shooting pictures of ducks with a $5,000 digital camera just to bring it up on the computer, crowd, who for some pervise reason like to push the "film is dead" thing, which is getting old after hearing this for the last six or seven years.

 

 

This is an interesting mouth full of name calling. I am just a MF Minolta phogotgrapher who felt this was a valid post of interest to all Minolta film photographers. I guess I was wrong and I am sorry that I have caused you to suffer unmanageable frustration. Good luck with your forum and photography.

I find it strange that a Minolta representative sent an e-mail like that. It doesn't sound like a well worded, diplomatic, corporate response.

 

At any rate, we're not going to see any more professional film bodies from the major companies. All the R&D is going into digital. However hard it may be for Gary to accept, digital now dominates photography.

 

Doesn't mean you can't produce fine images with existing film equipment, or continue using it for the time being. Just don't expect new film bodies.

Well, it is clear that they want to sell their 7D's. In countries like mine (Mexico) Digital is still not very popular with most people due to the prices of cameras. What I think is that film will be available for quite a while but not the wide variety of it. Perhaps they will keep producing certain popular speeds (ASA 100, 400, 800) but will stop producing special emulsions, at least, not as much as now.

I have found myself re-discovering new pictures in old negatives shot in colour film by playing with a film scanner and an image editor and converting some to B/W.

Just to summarize, in most countries digital is still very expensive for most people and film is the way to go there, for the time being. In rich countries, people can just buy a point and shoot digital and send their pictures over the internet and get the pictures back home. In poorer countries it is way cheaper to continue using that old SRT with a 36 exp film roll than buying a compact digital...

I don't know why all you posters doubt the claim that film is 'dead'. While you'll be able to get film for a few years down the road, the facts tell the truth. I know a number of Fuji people and they've told me film sales are down. Also, I've met with a person who is a one of the largest distributor of Kodak, and he tells me the same thing. And my friends, one who own a camera store and the other is a manager for Ritz Camera, tell me the same thing. Digital is outselling film by a wider and wider margin. Soon people who use film will be like people who prefer a LP to a CD.

 

Trying to get slide film developed is becoming more and more of a hassle. Both the reduced sales of slide film and tougher environmental laws, are making it harder and harder for labs to make any money in developing slide films.

 

It's time all you doubters face reality and get ready to switch to digital. But then, it's amazing the number of posters who still use non-AF cameras.

Hmmm Ross, I don't think that "rant" or "name-calling" was directed at you but rather, at

the person who responded to your email. I actually do think that your post is valid and

informative and it seems others do, too. As I said, it is a question we all face - some see it

as more serious, others as less so. However, we must acknowledge that there is an

alternative to film and that that alternative is looking more and more appealing to many

people and might eventually push those of us who prefer film to switch.

I'd agree, it doesn't sound like a KM e-mail. Regardless of reasonable the sentiments may be. How about a header or name?

Go out and shoot whatever you prefer. Have fun making your images. Leave the pointless equipment obsessions and rants to those crazy Nikon guys. ;-)

Gary- B&H and Adorama are retailers and don't manufacture the film that they sell. As time goes by, you'll have to go these 'specialty' stores to buy film, as you won't be able to buy it at the corner store.

<P>This topic is not exactly news so the question here is, who wrote that answer purporting to come from KM Corporation? Is it word for word or the poster's interpretation?</P><P>My personal feeling about the future of film is that it may depend heavily on the technology at the consumer photo printing outlets. If there is convergence of the digital and film processing and printing routes, it will remain viable to put film through and film sales will hang on.</P><P>As for the future of particular cameras, well, that's anybody's guess.</P>

Just a few thoughts :-

 

1.This is more and more of an "instant world" (I think it started with coffee but there are still those who use a percolator) and digital is instant.

 

2.It is also a world obsessed with electronics in its widest sense and digital fits that bill also.

 

3.The pace of change is forever increasing and the rate of obsolescence likewise - digital still offers the manufacturer the chance to bring out something new every few months and we all know what a keyword "new" is in advertising.

 

4.Film went through these rapid changes not that long ago but ultimately it settled down as it had run out of steam - we are still in the middle (or at the start or nearing the end ?) of the digital revolution.Sometime it will reach it's peak and then settle down.Who knows but that something else will fill its place.

 

5.Konica Minolta is not that big a player (it never really has been) and probably cannot afford to carry low volume low profit lines as say Canikon can, so their exit from film may have to be quicker but they are not alone in that.

 

6.The corner store cannot compete with the internet and the megastore in nearly all areas let alone film. I freely admit that I buy my film on-line but at a QUARTER of the cost from the high street.I have not as yet found a problem with getting slide developed.

 

7.If there is still a demand then some organisation will fill it (nature hates a vacuum).There are probably enough dyed in the wool film users (look at this site) to create a niche market. The current film manufacturers in my view milked the market for too long and have been shaken out of their comfort zone and are still in the process of coming to terms with this.The "third world" will still find film cheaper as regards capital cost for some while and the rest of us will probably benefit from this.

 

8.I am not sure that dying is the right word perhaps atrophying is nearer the mark but I am happy to be corrected on this !

 

From a purely selfish view film will probably see me out and this unseemly haste to bury it results in some wonderful equipment being available at rock bottom prices. This is particularly so with Minolta (to hell with the Konica bit) and my irrational brand loyalty will continue.

 

Yes I do have a Dimage Xt and I love that as well.

I know this is a long shot-- but maybe Minolta, er Konica-Minolta has halted Maxxum 7 & 9 production until they could be rebadged as Konica-Minolta 7 & 9. Probably a silly suggestion, but all the new digital gear from KM is labeled Konica-Minolta.

Another possibility- maybe they are transferring production of these camera bodies to China.

Again, just a thought.

Mike- KM is not going to spend any money rebadging the 7 and 9!!! Film is dying, accept it and get ready to move on. The price of digital cameras will continue to fall and the quality will increase. I feel that film will be available for about ten years more before it becomes economically unfeasiable for Kodak and Fuji to produce film.

 

As for processing film, the question will be how long will it be before the one hour labs go out of business because it is no longer profitable. Kodak bought ASF which had invented a stand-alone machine which a customer could put their roll of film in and the film roll would be pulled out and sprayed with a solution which would develop it. The developing film would then be scanned and digitized. The cusotmer could within four minutes choose what pictures to print and would get back pictures and a CD. However the film would continue to develop until it turned black and the customer would not get back their negatives. The good thing about this machine is that it required no connection to either a water source or waste water disposal. It could be put into a corner of a store and just plugged in. For whatever reason, Kodak decided to scrap the machines.

By the way, Black and White film died after the introduction of Kodachroma and Agfacolor in the 30s - didn't you notice? So it's just color film that's dying now.

 

For a different view, Agfa itself may be on the blocks, but their film and related products have been spun off on their own and will be looking to develop a profitable model based on a somewhat different model. Ilford is alive and well although restructured. And there are interesting players coming on the scene from Eastern Europe, some of them reviving old emulsions.

 

It used to be film was a mass market, and everything - overhead, pricing structure, size of runs and approach to running film batches - was designed to produce enormous quantities. That is going away, and film is becoming a different market, but far from dead. I think Agfa has the right approach.

 

Maybe some enterprising smaller company can convince Minolta that it should inherit and market some of the film cameras and mounts. But, Alas, I'm not expecting to see KM bring back the 7 or 9.

Regarding the comments about the "style" of the "K-M representative's" reply. Based on the tone, if it is accurately transcribed, I am pretty sure which K-M rep wrote it. From my past dealings with that person (if it is that person), I would say that the characterizations about the rep, given above, are very inaccurate. This person has been a great technical help and uses and knows Minolta SLRs better than most outside of the Japan engineering labs do. The writing style has always been helpful, direct and a bit irreverent (not a salesman). I would also say that maybe the rep is informed about the film business (I didn't see anything in his comments that is factually untrue), and maybe is a little too pessimistic, but after all the restructuring that K-M has gone through, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I hope the predictions are too pessimistic and that film will be around for a long time.

 

Tom

I think the question of "where can I get my rolls of film developed?" will come before "where can I buy film?" happens. Film can be shipped from anywhere in the world to any other place in the world fairly quickly. However as more and more people go digital, it will become more and more uneconomical for labs to develop the rolls. Let's say you have 100 labs in an area developing film. As less people use film some will go out of business, and over time you will few places to develop the film. A while back, a one-hour lab told me their 'break-even' point was 29 rolls a day, after which the lab made money. If that lab now only develops twenty rolls a day, how long do you think they will continue to absorb the loss? Then those ten rolls will move to another lab, adding to their ten rolls, keeping them in business until they too find it uneconomical to have a machine and an operator to pay for.

 

I think in the end, people who develop B&W film at home will be the last holdouts to use film. The day of film will have come full-circle-- black & white to color to black & white. Very ironic.

Believe it or not, 110 years after the advent of the automobile, people still buy horse saddles. They do not sell them in the quantities they did 100 years ago, or to the "general public", but the people that I know who own horses are not the general public.

 

I am an unapologetic film user. And, quite often, it is not AF, too. I will ?get ready to switch? to digital when I am good and ready.

 

I may not be able to buy film at a local drug store in 10 years, but I don't care because I do not buy the kodacrap they have to sell. I do not use consumer film. The drug store minilab may not be around anymore, but again, I don't care because I would not let them NEAR my film. I either develop myself or sent them to someplace like A&I.

 

Yes, film is at or near the end of their product life cycle. What that means is that there will be fewer and fewer new camera models introduced that use film. Most (but probably not all) will be digital. It means that new emulsions from Kodak and Fuji are likely to be just tweaks of existing emulsions, and not ground-up developments.

 

As the film market shrinks, the film divisions of the major camera manufacturers and film manufacturers will do everything they can to eliminate the fixed costs of businesses. The fixed costs are marketing and research and development. If, after cutting the fixed costs to the bone, the division is still loosing money, we will see what KM is doing with their film division ? phase it out or sell it.

 

But, other companies are able to find a niche that they are able to make money in.

 

Therefore, film will not see the technical development or sales it did 10 years ago, but it is not dead.

 

chad

Chad- Denial is a river in Egypt...But seriously, I just finished looking at the KM site which had the May 2005 end of Fiscal Year report. It looks like you'll have to move to Africa, Russia or some other place where digital hasn't reached the market penetration levels as it has in the US and European markets, to be able to buy film products from KM. Didn't Kodak discontinue some pro level film recently or was that just a rumour I heard. I'll ask my friend, who's a Ritz Camera store manager, this weekend about this when we go fishing.

 

Chad, your analogy of the horse saddle doesn't really apply to what is happening to photography, or imagining as it's called now days. My suggestion to you is to buy a BIG freezer and stock up on your favorite film.

Its seems The US is worse off than the rest of the world with film availability.At least in London and the South East of the UK film seems to be readily available.

SL- It's not that film is not available on this side of the pond, but that the future is dim for it, and there's no coming back. Kodak and Fuji have seen major drops in the film market, and Konica(Minolta) is out of the market. On your side of the pond, look at Agfa and Ilford and take that as a warning. The Golden days of film is over.

 

It's just sad to see how many posters on this forum refuse to accept the inevitable. I mean I still use film, but have a point & shoot Sony Cyber-Shot around here someplace. I find the convenience of not having to shoot a whole roll when I only need one or two shots. I have a negative scanner but it is a hassle having to get rid of dust spots even with Digital ICE to remove them.