The effect of community on creativity

I've been reading a lot recently about European photographers of the '20s and

'30s. A point often mentioned is how important the modern art (Surrealism)

community in Paris was in shaping their outlook and the outlook of many

post-war photographers.

 

There was an active interest in working side by side with other photographers (

Bravo and Cartier-Bresson in Mexico, Kertesz and Brassai in Paris).

 

Certainly community standards can inhibit creativity, but how important has it

been for today's premier photographers to have a mentoring group? Do the web

and high quality publications provide an equivalent quality of interaction?

I'm sure not a premier photographer but I had a mentor and coach who was my

friend. Matter of fact both my wife and I spent time with him at his home and we

became friends. I would take in-depth seminars from him and it really helped me in

many ways.

 

There is nothing better than to spend time with someone you look up to and who is

willing to be your mentor and friend. The web and high quality publications do help

but, to me at least, there is nothing better than a 5 to 7 day stay with someone and

other photographers who believe in the same and want to learn.

I think it is worthwhile for a photographer to have mates, pals, friends who are also photographers, not mentors or teachers -- especially so for young photographers -- they can have a lot of energy to work off, and there are odds of creative 'combustion' resulting from arguing, competing, and general goofing.

Oh, yeah...and jealousy and lovely 'objects of desire'. It is painfully great to be young 8-)

I cannot comment on your first question because I have no personal interaction with anyone claiming to be a 'premier' photographer, but I can address ""Do the web and high quality publications provide an equivalent quality of interaction?", at least to a certain extent.

 

I've seen quite a lot of discussion of this general topic in non-photography circles (academe, etc.) and there is much debate over the current usefulness v. as yet unrealized potential - many strong opinions on both sides of the fence have a lot to say on the matter. I can only comment based on my own experiences in this regard, and as far as my own experiences in photography go I have seen a good deal of collaboration as far as equipment and technique discussions, but not so much in the areas of subject matter or style.

 

That is not to say that it does not exist, but that I myself have not seen it. I think that by the very nature of the artistic world and the social aspects of the Internet the level of influence is very individual. For my part, I tend to be far less influenced by the work of other modern photographers, and more influenced by the work of artists working in other media. I find that engaging artists who do something different that what I do allows me to see differently and to expand how I view my subjects, and the world in general.

 

I have, however, spoken with many others who do rely on current trends in photography as displayed on the Internet and in current photographic publications and it would seem that certain trends seem to gain followers rather quickly once they hit the internet. Some have been around for a while but were not known to the masses until they debuted on the Internet, and other seem to have been alterations of older concepts that gained popularity suddenly. Given their short lifespans many currently popular 'styles' don't appear to be defining movements in photographic history, as the examples that you provided were, but who can really say (with any accuracy) how the current trends will be viewed by the future? Perhaps the rapid changes in photography will be a defining movement as a whole...

 

As emphasis on in-person groups shifts to electronic groups I imagine that all the aspects of these 'communities' will go right along with the change - there seems to be little reason to suspect otherwise. The real question is, as you posted above, will they provide an 'equivalent' quality of interaction? As someone who grew up in a non-Internet world I have found that while there are aspects of these new groups that I value, for the greater part it is lacking many of the things that I seek in a mentor, to use your word. For someone who has grown up in this setting it seems logical to assume that they not have these same misgivings.

 

- Randy

I don't know what constitutes a premier photographer other then being very successful financially. I learned from older photographers by watching them work when I was an photographer's assistant and then assistant photographer. When I passed some unknown test, I to became a photographer in the eye's of the older photographers.

 

At the time the people I hung out with were also assistants around the studio of one sort or another. We talked about how the on camera photographers worked over beer and photographic excursions. We challenged each other to be ever better as we developed our own style.

 

I feel the internet and high quality publications pale in comparison to one on one interaction. The good old fashion local camera club will provide a far better sense of community.

Purely personal: the value of groups is what Don E calls "combustion". I agree with hm about the value of peers rather than mentors. In my own experience, the peers don't have to be specifically photographers - painters, poets, musicians, lumberjacks, even just people with lots of idea they never carry out, all make part of a valuable mix.

 

Although a great fan of the internet for many things, on a scale of 0-10 (where 0 is low and 10 is high) for creative synergy I would put...

 

... sitting around physically chewing the fat at 10...

 

... talking to another creative person at 8...

 

... seeing a good physical exhibition or intense net discussion with one stimulating person at 6...

 

... seeing good work either in print or on the web at 4...

 

.... and generalised virtual discussion at 2.

 

But, that's just me; I'm sure others would rank them very differently and with equal justice.

Thinking about "Premier photographers" ... I was very lucky, when younger, to have the opportunity of interaction with photographers whom I, at least, hero worshipped ... that's as good a PERSONAL definition of "premier" and I can think of - I wanted to be like them.

 

A few of them shaped my thinking (by example and inspiration) for life; more of them did not.

I belong to a photography group of about 5 photographers and revolving models we

work with. It's a very different experience from working alone and there seems to be

a good energy when we're in the groove and playing off each other's ideas and

approaches. There are also times when it doesn't work, just like shooting alone.

 

Some online discussions have been very productive in terms of how I look and think

about my photography. Many are useless.

 

A good mentor will establish boundaries so that his/her vision/taste doesn't

supersede. Yes, there are dangers to such a relationship in terms of independence

and creativity. Recognizing that is of help. There are dangers to ANY relationship in

life (codependence, envy, jealousy, etc.) That doesn't mean we necessarily avoid

the relationships. The pluses are also many.

Despite what I've said about the low place of net community on collaboration in terms of intensity, it can sometimes provide a frequency and continuity which is valuable.

 

I'm one of a trio of photographers who rarely meet but supply each other with valuable stimulation by email - text and image.

I feel no doubt the best situation is one that involves collaboration, critical analysis, teaching, and encouragement from actual "meat space" relationships with creative people.

 

It is also obvious that everyone here is getting something from cyberspace too. I use the web for looking at photographs and reading everything from blogs to forums. The web, however, can do only some things well (like provide specific information) but has difficulty with others (like anything resembling a real relationship with someone).

 

For example, I'm not at all certain you all understand what a wonderful person I really am. My innate modesty often fails to come through clearly in forum posts.

I have had the opportunity to assist for several of what could be considered today's

premier photographers: Norman Jean Roy, Mary Ellen Mark, Michele Comte, Mark

Abrahams etc., etc. These are the people shaping others minds and ideas about

styles and techniques. I have to say that I'm sure they utilize the information out

there to create better images and that they are inspired by art and society just as

any photographers from any period. However, they do their own work. They don't

need peers necessarily- they are independent creators. Really, they are great

thinkers and don't need help, or desire it. They don't necessarily want to share their

ideas. In a highly competitive world who does? That said, who doesn't listen, at least

a little, to the people around them-wether they are photographers or editors or

assistants? There is always something to learn- not just technically but about the

business or.... philosophy for example. :)

Just had to show people one of the effects of community on creativity that I encountered this morning. One caveat that I want clear is that, although I do in fact hunt big game, I do not have one of these.

 

Community standards can create some odd forms of creativity.

 

http://www.divinecaroline.com/article/22323/49668-redneck-refined--deer-butt-art

Ever been to a "community" theatre...? Well, I suspect community photography would be even worse...

 

"Community" anything is generally best avoided. As are neighbours and other such strange folk. The humble life of the hairy hermit is the way to go, I tell ya...

>>Do the web and high quality publications provide an equivalent quality of interaction?<<

 

No. Interacting with people and places in your community is vital.

 

Mentoring can happen at many levels and in many ways: it can be direct (apprentice type of situation), periodical meetings with subsequent discussion, etc... But, it can also happen by 'chance'. If you interact with other artists (they don't have to be photographers) and/or people in your community, each will have his/her own special, unique way of interacting with you, at many levels. If you are open to their being in your 'space' so to speak, you'll be able to receive input that is valuable, genuine and long lasting. Same for places around you...

 

Clearly, if you live in a 'restricted' community things will be different but, even then, people always find a way to express themselves...yet.

To my way of thinking, knowing why artists from the past are important, and why "people" believe certain objects are are seen as beautiful, and what beautiful means is crucial to making art.

 

I think that you can only get this knowledge, get "turned on" to Art, by other people. Art, photography, painting, sculpture, architecture, are languages, like music, or poetry... opera.

Why is this even a question? Community is important to humans. That's it. Last time I checked photographers were human.

 

Part of the trouble with the modern industrialized societies is that people spend a lot or most of time being talking heads in front of communication devices or sitting in a car instead of being socially-involved with face-to-face interactions in communities. Diminished or non-existent extended families wasn't such a big problem as it is now. How many people do you know that say they only have acquaintances, and not real friends. Best friends...? What was the last time you met to chat face-to-face or have a drink with your friends?

 

A bunch of people having common interests and only communicating online is not a community.

Today I still photograph alone. I'm studying by myself. I have a business mentor, not a photographer mentor. I see photo net as a one giant leading master.

Photographers from my home town often don't have an extra time. I talked with one wedding photographer, finding why he doesn't have an extra time to mentor me. And he said that he haven't been sleeping normally for the last 10 years. Because during the day he photograph and later during the night he then post processed them.

What to say then, except, "OK, I hope you'll find some time to rest well."

 

I often participate in domestic and foreign photography contests for exhibitions. So, now, I'm participating in my first group exhibition in Sofia, Bulgaria, with three bigger photos on billboards.

I'm going alone, that's for sure.

 

We all are part of this virtual community. It gives me a clear seeing of how much I am a social being. I agree with Dan. Yes we are all humans and sometimes I become too much emotional here.