Technical Pan in Ilfotec LC29

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by simon_novak, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. Hello,
    a couple of days ago I found two exposed Technical Pan 120 films I shot about 10 years ago, I believe rated at ISO 25. Since I recently got back into film photography I thought, what the heck, I'll try and develop one and see what happens. What happened was the film was completely clear/transparent - absolutely nothing on it.
    Here's what I did:
    1 min presoak, semi stand development in Ilfotec LC29 1+100 (6mL dev, 600mL water) at 18°C(65°F) I read lowering the temperature reduces the possibility of fogging with old films, then normal fix for 5 minutes. All the chemicals were fresh. The LC29, supposedly, is similar to HC-110, only more diluted, which should be ok for stand development. I've used the 1+100 formula with LC29 with several films now and they all came out ok. So now I'm at a loss.. Any idea what I did wrong and what I should do with my second roll? I can't find any usable information on how to develop Tech Pan with LC29.
    A few days ago I ordered a bottle of Adonal/Rodinal and I should receive it by the end of the week, do you think I should try with that? Digitaltrouth's Mass Dev Chart has that on their list with Tech Pan. Otherwise there's a limited supply of developers in my region and I'd hate to order something just to develop one roll of film.
    Any information would be much appreciated, thank you!
     
  2. Are you sure it was exposed?
     
  3. Hi Larry, thanks for a quick response. Well, since it was 10 years ago, I really can't be 100% sure, but I'm almost certain it
    was exposed. Those were the last two rolls I shot after going digital and I remember saying to myself, come on, get your
    tank out and develop them, otherwise they'll rot in the drawer for 10 years and then end up in the trash. Well, one of them
    is in there already.. :)
     
  4. SCL

    SCL

    Out of curiosity...was the edge ID info on the negatives clear and distinct? If so, the film probably wasn't exposed...could be a variety of issues, shutter malfunction, lens cap on, winding issues not caught at the time.
     
  5. Second question Stephen Lewis also asked makes me think. It is one of the few films that won't rot. The ISO was so slow even Cosmic radiation does not seem to hurt them. I have some old Panoramic Microfilm made in the 60s in 400 foot reels that are as good as new. Test the developer first with a known good film and see if the LC went or is bad.... I can't remember if that film in 120 had edge markings bit then again.. I can't remember many things. Short of doing a clip test on the roll I can't say much more.
     
  6. Test that developer on the leader of the other roll. See that it turns black.
     
  7. Easier said than done with 35mm not the 120 that the OP is working with.
     
  8. No, there was no edge info on the film, every square mm of it was transparent. The developer is ok, I bought it two weeks ago and I always mix fresh when doing stand development since the dev gets exhausted. I also developed 5 35mm rolls with it and everything was just fine.
    I shot the two rolls with an old Bronica so there could be a technical malfunction but in the year I used it I must have put about 30 rolls through it without ever having any problems. The lens cap should have been off otherwise I wouldn't have seen anything throug the viewfinder. So I really don't know what's going on here..
    I guess I'll wait for the Adonal dev to arrive and try with that. I searched the Massive Dev Chart for some info and that's what I got:
    Technical Pan Rodinal 1+100 25 60 20C [notes]
    Technical Pan Rodinal 1+100 25 7-9 7-9 7-9 20C [notes]
    Can anybody explain how you can get from 7-9 minutes to 60 minutes using the same dilution and temperature? What am I missing here? Any other thoughts about how I should aproach this with Adonal?
     
  9. If the film was completely blank - no edge markings or trace of fog, not a single hint of a highlight, anything - the most likely culprit was inadvertently fixing first. It happens. Even exhausted developer will usually develop something, if only a bit of fogging.
    "Can anybody explain how you can get from 7-9 minutes to 60 minutes using the same dilution and temperature? What am I missing here?"​
    The Massive Dev chart contains a lot of user generated data, not just manufacturers' data. The quality of the data depends not only on whether there are typos, but the experience and veracity of the user. Stand development is mostly voodoo anyway, so I'd always be a bit skeptical of someone else's suggestions that differed significantly from my own experiences using the same materials. I'd first test an unimportant roll before committing anything important to questionable developing techniques.
     
  10. Yes, I know fixing first gives transparent negatives, but I'm absolutely positive that wasn't the case. My fixer is in a cola
    bottle and my developer is in the Ilford one, no way I could have mixed them. Hm.. unles the wife had something to do
    with it! :) Ok, joking aside, I'll try with Adonal when I get it, this time without any crazy dilutions and hope it works better.

    As for the stand development, I read that you can put rolls with different ISO(50, 400 and 1600 for example) together and
    get them all developed just fine, that's why I went with this aproach since I wasn't sure exectly how I rated the Tech Pan.

    Thank you all for your help.
     
  11. Ahem.. I was fixing instead of
    developing, you were right. I just
    wanted to develop a fresh roll I recently
    shot and I realized I grabbed my fixer
    to start mixing it for development..
    Stupid, stupid.. :) Eh, we learn from our
    mistakes.
     
  12. I think the only time I ever had film come out completely clear was TP in Microdol-X. Similar idea, EI 25 and develop with more dilute developer, but I didn't have a good reference for what the time should be. I suspect I underdeveloped it.
    Note that the normal EI for TP is about 200, and I suspect the edge markings are exposed for that. I have done TP at 200 in Diafine, and had it come out just fine, though very high contrast as expected.
    As well as I know, stand development is similar to Diafine in that most of the development is done very early, and the longer time allows the shadows to develop more. It doesn't seem so strange that 60 and 7-9 minutes might be for the same dilution.
     
  13. "Ahem.. I was fixing instead of developing, you were right. I just wanted to develop a fresh roll I recently shot and I realized I grabbed my fixer to start mixing it for development.. Stupid, stupid.. :) Eh, we learn from our mistakes."​
    Happens to most of us, at least once. ;)

    I finally got into the habit of not only using a specific and distinctive container for fixer, but keeping it on the opposite side of the darkroom so I'd have to walk a few more steps to retrieve it.
     
  14. I am not as addle minded but I put mine with a label that says Finished next to the pickled fish. ;-)
     
  15. Hehe, from now on I am keeping my undiluted fixer bottle (of course, identical shape to the dev one!) hidden from my sight, covered with a rag at the far end of the shelf, that should take care of things.
    Now, if someone should stumble upon this thread wondering how to develop TP in LC29, I found out stand developing works great, at least for me. So, LC29 1+100 at 20°C (68°F), initial agitation for half a minute, then stand, followed by two gentle inversions at 30 minute mark and another 30 minutes of stand. Was very happy with the contrast.
     

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