Tank or tray?

What are your experiences of developing BW and color reversal 4x5 film? Is tank or tray yielding better

results? I am leaning towards tank processing, but I know some people prefer the trays. I can do both,

but I have yet to experiment. I'm using mostly Kodax TXP, TMX, & Ektachrome 64.

I've never used a tank that didn't lead to uneven development and expose too many pieces of

film for trays to be practical. So, I'm using a Jobo 1500 drum and sheet film holders. My son

build me a roller base from Lego, I'm all set ;-)

I'm developing with a Combi-plan tank. I'm pleased with it, and use it for both b&w and transparency film. I'm real happy with the results I'm getting.

Like Jeff, I use the Combi Plan tank and have done so, for the twenty years I've done large format.

 

I get such good results, I was curious about all the reports of "uneven" development several years ago. So I did the most demanding test you can do: I exposed a blank wall to about Zone VI. There was a virtually unnoticeable uneveness, the amount I would think you would get in any process. Even with something such as sky, you wouldn't see anything (and I don't.)

 

And this is with doing a Combi Plan "no-no" - filling with the lid on, since I can't be sure that my darkroom is dark enough for film. I tip the tank toward the outer edge by the funnel. Rather than drain from the bottom, I turn the tank upside down and drain from the top. (Bottom fills first, empties first. Probably only superstition that it makes any difference, but...)

 

I don't know any other way to develop up to six sheets so easily and economically.

 

BTW, for the past fifteen years, I've used PMK Pyro. It works fine in the Combi Plan. I use forty oz., to leave as little room for air (and oxidation) as possible. I agitate by inversion every fifteen seconds.

 

Paul

i use a tank for my 4x5 most of the time. i use trays for my 8x10. if i need to do different dev. times i will also use trays for my 4x5. i use a "doran" tank. it holds 12 sheets. i have never had a problem with uneven dev.

 

i use hi dil. with hc110. that is my one big driving force. i would rather stand in the daylight to do the dev. on films that range from 18-36 min. i surf the www between agitations. makes the time pass better than standing in the dark for so long.

 

eddie

I've done B&W 4x5 processing in trays (takes too long), the infamous Yankee tanks (uneven development), and the HP Combi-Plan. By a large margin I prefer the Combi-Plan. I use the C-P tank for developing (with the lights on, HC110-B or E dilution), then turn off the lights and do a dip-and-dunk for stop bath and fixing in two auxiliary tanks I bought from Adorama, then rinse in the open-top C-P tank.

 

BTW, I invert the C-P tank for agitation rather than simply rocking it on its base as directed. Since I don't use either of the spigots on the tank, the only leakage I get is a bit from where the lid meets the top rim of the tank.

I do all my 4x5 in tanks (ye olde Kodak hard rubber variety), but use trays for 8x10 sheet film and I've never seen uneven development using either method. I find that I can do 8 sheets using either method in the same amount of time, but with the smaller sheets (2x3 and 4x5) hangers and tanks works best for me, but I have no problems handling the larger 8x10 sheets in a tray.

 

Some things to consider; tanks use more chemistry than trays, trays *may* be more prone to scratching than tanks, some people report problems with "surge" marks using hangers (I've never seen it though), and some tanks are daylight while trays are all in the dark.

 

I think that everyone will have their own preferences, so consider what people say and why and then apply that to your own situation to give you an idea of what might work best for you. If you try trays, I find that putting the emulsion side *down* works better in preventing scratching, and be certain to lay the sheet down on the surface of the solution and then press in down rather than sliding the sheets into the solution.

 

- Randy

 

- Randy

Combi-plan (2) and when doing N+ I will sometimes use a uniroller with paper drum (with a

couple home-made stops to use 4x5 film.)

 

The developer/dilution I favor require longer development times which helps eliminate

uneven development. Haven't had any since adopting the combination.

 

I also have a four-film "slosher" for tray work but have only used it for develpment by

inspection.

BTZS tubes (www.theviewcamerastore.com) for about 12 years for b&w film. Advantages - everything done in daylight once tubes are loaded, 6 - 12 sheets at a time depending on how many tubes you buy and on your manual dexterity, varying development times in the same run, take up little space, cost (about $150 for 6 tubes, 12 tanks, and a water jacket)moderate compared to Jobo, expensive compared to trays and maybe tanks, perfectly even development, no scrathces, much better than jiggling trays while standing over them in the dark and inhaling chemical fumes. Disadvantages - maybe the cost if the alternative is trays, have to hand-roll the tubes (better than trays but not like Jobo mechanical system).

I've been doing large format photography (4x5, 8x10) since about 1967. About 1980 i started doing 3 1/4 x 4 1/4. About 1999 I branched out to 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and 5x7. I've been doing 11x14 for about 2-3 years. I've tried trays, the Yankee tank, Kodak deep tanks, and tubes designed for paper. I haven't tried the Jobo or BTZS drums (yet). Here's what I've found

 

- trays. Ive found these OK and have used them for 4x5 and 8x10 in the beginning. I have found that they will do fine for 8x10 and smaller. Good uniformity, no scratches if fingernails are trimmed and filed smooth. I don't like them for 11x14 because I always seem to get scratched negatives. I guess the forces of one sheet against another finally have gotten big enough to produce scratches on the emulsions. I don't do trays any more for anything. See Below.

-The Yanke tank. I have used this since I was a poor grad student at the Univ. of Illinois in the early 1970's. I have used it for 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, 9x12 (cm),3 1/4 x 4 1/4, and 4x5. I have done several hundred sheets in my tank and never had any uniformity problems. Vigorous slow agitation in the direction in which the sheets lie parallel is the key. I don't use this method much anymore. Not because it isn't good, I have just found a method I like better. See below.

-deep Kodak Tanks. This is my favorite method. I have tanks in 4x5,5x7, and 8x10 sizes. I set up tanks for the largest size negatives I've taken and develop that size and all smaller sizes in that one size tank set. I like this method best now that I have a permanent darkroom. I have enough film hangers to do as many sheets as I feel comfortable handling at once (usually 8-10). The classical see-saw agitation works just fine (for B&W) & produced good uniformity. I'm set up to do development by inspection with a green safelight when needed (not often).

- paper drums. I've tried this recently for all size color sheet films (I've tried 4x5 and 8x10), and for 11x14 B&W and color (I have some 11x14 color film left, soon to be gone). I've found that I can do the temperature control well enough in drums for color. I have to take the film out for washing, but everything else does OK in the drum.

 

In summary, my favorite method is deep Kodak tanks (when available). I've just never found film hangers for 11x14. If I could, I'd do 11x14 B&W in deep tanks too.

The Jobo 2500 tank system and 2509N reel are fine, PROVIDED you use mechanical rotation AND you use a pre-soak. Years ago I tried using a Jobo tank with manual rotation and no pre-soak - disaster - foaming and tide marks all over the place.

 

I now use the same tank and reel with a CPE2 processor (bought 2nd hand for less than the new price of the tank and reel), and have no problem at all.

 

Kodak recommend not using a pre-soak with rotary processors, but Kodak are just plain wrong in this respect, I'm afraid. You MUST pre-soak, as per Jobo's recommendation. Then you'll get perfectly even development.

 

As for doing reversal processing in trays - you're joking, right?

And trays aren't immune from processing marks either. It's easy to get air-bells trapped on, or under, the film, and to get standing-wave marks from the limited agitation you can apply in a tray.

I've been using a Combi=Plan tank for a long time now and don't have any problems with it. In the beginning, I made a few mistakes loading the thing, but that's to be expected. Like any other piece of equipment you need to use in the dark, it pays to practice with it for a while before you commit anything important to it. Otherwise, no problems at all - and I drain it from the bottom. The trick is to use a slow working developer.

The Jobo Expert drum (10 4x5 sheets) has worked well for me on a motorized base with TMY/XTOL. I initially started with the Jobo 2500 drum but experienced uneven development near the edges.