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T7i or 77D for yearbook students?


Gary Naka

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I am putting together a recommendation for next year to the yearbook advisor.

We need a couple more cameras.

Current cameras: T3 (x1), T5 (x2), T7i (x2)

I am split between recommending 2 more T7i or the 77D.

 

The big benefit to the T7i, is the camera is identical to what they have.

 

With the 77D, they have to learn a new camera/control layout, and switching between the cameras may be problematic for some of them. Is the 77D worth upgrading to?

 

These are 15-16 year old kids, not adults.

Importantly, most of them are not photographers, so KISS would be appropriate.

 

I would appreciate any thoughts you may have.

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The big benefit to the T7i, is the camera is identical to what they have.

 

I would find it hard to believe that the T7i would be inadequate for the purpose, even with the passage of a few more years.

 

I agree with your target group, having the same "interface" would be highly desirable.

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If they are switching between cameras, it's best to only have to show them once, surely. The functional difference between their predecessors T6i & T6s were minimal as far as I could see.

I went from Pentax Spotmatic and Rollei film SLR's to digital EOS, so the Xti layout without top lcd's was sort of familiar.

Those who used film EOS probably gravitate to top lcd controls.

Do kids learn how to shoot film any more, and if so, with what?

You could ask them what they think. I would, and then I'd probably regret it.

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If they are switching between cameras, it's best to only have to show them once, surely. The functional difference between their predecessors T6i & T6s were minimal as far as I could see.

. . .

You could ask them what they think. I would, and then I'd probably regret it.

 

 

James

Yes the control layout of the T5 and T7i are similar enough to be the same for them.

For them, the primary upgrade from the T5 to the T7i is the 2 stops of extra low light capability of the T7i, for indoor gym and outdoor night sports.

 

If they are anything like we were, they would want the latest and greatest. To heck with common interface.

It is me that is mulling the practical issue of the different control layout, cuz I gotta teach them, and I see how they work.

My initial thought was T7i. But then I liked the 2 control dials of the 77D for the 3 on the photo team. But now I'm back to common controls of the T7i.

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I can understand two 7Ti's over, say, one 7DII but I don't "get" two 7Ti's over one 77D. It is what it is I guess. If they need more cameras then TWO 7Ti's would be the obvious choice over ONE 77D. Otherwise, two 77D's would be my choice over two 7Ti's.

 

I'm thinking of a classroom environment, so (for me) it would also depend if they come to the class knowing nothing and learn basics or if they come into the class knowing nothing and learn a lot. New stuff is always nice, but if the T7i is the same as a T5 where's the challenge? If they know nothing about cameras and photography, and aren't expected to learn any more than entry level stuff, then stay with the same familiar controls and make it as easy as possible.

 

But if they are expected to grow, two 77D's would be a step away from entry level, will help them learn and they'll be competing to see who will get to use the 77D's.

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I can understand two 7Ti's over, say, one 7DII but I don't "get" two 7Ti's over one 77D. It is what it is I guess. If they need more cameras then TWO 7Ti's would be the obvious choice over ONE 77D. Otherwise, two 77D's would be my choice over two 7Ti's.

 

I'm thinking of a classroom environment, so (for me) it would also depend if they come to the class knowing nothing and learn basics or if they come into the class knowing nothing and learn a lot. New stuff is always nice, but if the T7i is the same as a T5 where's the challenge? If they know nothing about cameras and photography, and aren't expected to learn any more than entry level stuff, then stay with the same familiar controls and make it as easy as possible.

 

But if they are expected to grow, two 77D's would be a step away from entry level, will help them learn and they'll be competing to see who will get to use the 77D's.

 

It will be TWO of whichever camera I finally decide on recommending.

IF he say only ONE, then it will likely be a T7i, as a single 77D does not make much sense in a pool.

 

Some of them may be know photography, most don't.

Two of the current students have their own T5, so the Rebel T series is likely to be the starting point for an experienced student.

But I could also have the odd one that is shooting the parent's 5D.

 

Frankly, I don't want them competing for a specific camera. That leads to other problems.

In my plan, IF we go with a pair of 77D, they would be assigned to the kids we pick for the photo team.

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I think I'd recommend the 77D. (IMO) I think learning to work with both dials is an important step when shooting M, aka photography fundamentals. The students who want to shoot for shooting's sake will (of course) want the more capable camera, but lets be realistic, it's not like a teenager, who has been using a Rebel, is going to have a problem picking a 77D up and be shooting effectively with it minutes later. The basics are virtually all exactly the same. The improved ergonomics will (OTOH) allow those passionate about photography to expand their current horizons. I always found (personally) that limiting my tools limits (in practical terms) what I do with them.
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The 77D is virtually identical to the T7i under the hood. Same sensor and same processor all much the same as the 80D. I am a great believer in the KISS principal so I would go with what you already use, the T7i, it's going to save instruction time and possibly arguments.
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It will be TWO of whichever camera I finally decide on recommending.

IF he say only ONE, then it will likely be a T7i, as a single 77D does not make much sense in a pool.

 

Some of them may be know photography, most don't.

Two of the current students have their own T5, so the Rebel T series is likely to be the starting point for an experienced student.

But I could also have the odd one that is shooting the parent's 5D.

 

Frankly, I don't want them competing for a specific camera. That leads to other problems.

In my plan, IF we go with a pair of 77D, they would be assigned to the kids we pick for the photo team.

 

I'd misread the original post. Thanks for clarifying!

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When I went to technical college, they gave us Pentax Spotmatics and 400 ASA B&W film. None of us understood what we were doing but were taking reasonably exposed film within 30 minutes. I didn't do much with photography for another 10 years but was sort of prepared.

These new cameras are very similar as long as you don't let students use program settings, which make them feel stupid. Program settings are for when you are intoxicated, then just fine, or when you are actually stupid.

It's good someone is thinking about their needs, however.

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James,

Most of the students are not photographers, nor are they technical. Most are 10th and 11 grade high school students.

This year, we do not have a group of dedicated photographers. The page editors shoot their own pictures.

Most of the students are "button pushers" and for them, the scene modes, Auto and Program are just fine. Because we do not have a dedicated photo team, I need the page editors to shoot pictures for their pages, however they do it.

The beauty of the dslr cameras are that there are so many options that you can go from easy scene modes to full manual, and match the camera to the skill and interest level of the student.

 

And yes, there were instances where I had to configure the cameras for a particular event, for them.

I would also check the camera settings periodically, to make sure it is set generically. Sometimes the settings are changed, and it screws up the next person to use the camera; like one student leaving the camera in RAW mode, and the next student in tears because she could not open the RAW files. We do not have a workflow for handling RAW files, for simplicity and speed, we only shoot in JPG.

 

Next year, I am hopeful that I will have a small dedicated photo team, that I can teach to use the advanced functions of the camera.

But I will always have the majority of the students who are "button pushers."

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Sorry,

THANK YOU all for your comments.

It made me think about a few things that I would not have thought of before.

 

I personally would have liked to go with the 77D, because of the 2 control dials.

But commonality of controls of pool gear with a changing staff of student users each year won out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I ran the yearbook photo staff during HS and for a few years after. At that time I had to hand out a trix loaded k-1000 with manual focus and pray I got it back in one piece. It was the lack of AF that was a killer and reduced good shot counts more than anything. I found most kids could compose creatively with a bit of practice and would try to get the match needle metering right.

 

I'm honestly surprised and relieved your school has a budget for cameras. Most in my area rely on smartphones and many don't have a YB photo staff other than to manage submitted pictures (from smartphones) via the student population.

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[ATTACH=full]1237899[/ATTACH]

Glen, just wanted to acknowledge your wonderful photo and the kid “resting” in the foreground. Great shot, likely due to your eye and timing as well a good sense for circumstance, and possibly about as good a photo no matter the camera you would have used, as long as you knew what you were doing with it, which I sense you would have.

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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Glen, just wanted to acknowledge your wonderful photo and the kid “resting” in the foreground. Great shot, likely due to your eye and timing as well a good sense for circumstance, and possibly about as good a photo no matter the camera you would have used, as long as you knew what you were doing with it, which I sense you would have.

 

I think I was lucky. For pictures from a class that I was in, I would do some composing and timing. This one is walking by, standing in the doorway (previously setting the exposure and close enough focus) and shooting, because I was not in this class. Also, shoot fast before the kids figure out that I am there.

 

A common California school design has doors going to the outside, and one wall that is mostly windows. Also, fluorescent ceiling lighting that is pretty bright.

Shooting at EI 1600 isn't all that hard, without flash.

 

I started darkroom work the summer before 4th grade, so I was pretty used to both cameras and film by 8th grade.

-- glen

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Scott,

Yes this school is better off than when I was in yearbook.

Back then we used our own cameras, there was no school camera. And because we used our own cameras, there was a mix of types (TLR, SLR, and rangefinders) and brands (Nikon, Minolta, Pentax, Mamiya, Miranda, Exakta, Canon, Yashica, etc.). As a result, there was very little lens sharing possible. And when a photographer graduated, so did his gear. However, because everyone had their own camera, they knew how to use it, vs. pool cameras where kids have to first learn how to use the camera.

 

But similar to your comment, the yearbook advisor gave me his guideline.

With kids, he expects gear to get damaged and have to be replaced, so nothing expensive. Hence the cheaper consumer level gear, no expensive pro gear.

Luckily, nothing was seriously damaged this year, just a cracked filter. I can live with that.

 

re: Auto Focus:

Yes, still a problem today. Most of the kids are not photographers, so most of kids don't know how to focus a lens. A P&S/phone camera is their speed. But P&S that I have used, all had terrible shutter lag, and as a result, would be really difficult to use for sports or anything with action/movement. That is why the dslr. Although I saw a kid doing surprisingly well at a soccer game with his phone camera. So I would not give up on the phone cameras.

 

One of the cameras was "somehow" set to area mode AF, and the student who used it got nothing in focus, and was upset. The area mode focus was focusing on other than her subject. Once I figured out the problem, I simplified the AF, to center point only. KISS principle.

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I think I was lucky. For pictures from a class that I was in, I would do some composing and timing.

Different composing and timing, more setup, less spontaneity, IMO, might all have contributed to this NOT being as good a shot as it is. It has a very fluid, genuine feel and is certainly in the moment. If it were mine, I'd let it stand on its own and as it is without second guessing it.

We didn't need dialogue. We had faces!
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Unfortunately, we did not get any of the experienced photo students.

So my better photographers were self taught. One of whom is graduating.

I am hoping to have a core of returnees next year, so that I don't have to train from scratch.

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