super baldax, which lens to look for

hi

would like some opinions, prefereably from people using these oldies, or

someone who has read more than me,...

regards

thorir v

I think the 'best' lens the Super-Baldax came with was an Enna lens. However, most three-element 6x6 lenses (with 75mm or so) are quite soft wide open, and the widest opening (sometimes f/3.5) sometimes seems to be introduced for marketing reasons only. Don't expect too much. The only three-element lens I know which performs quite good even wide open is the Meyer Trioplan.

Isn't Ennagon a four element Tessar-type? Not sure if the Super Baldax came with Ennagon though. The Ennar is a three lement lens. One of my Weltax cameras has the Trioplan. Very good lens actually, but I have to find a light leak somewhere in that camera.

I thought the Ennagon is a triplet. There is some resolution info here http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/cameras/balda.html

 

There is a german expatriate who buys baldas (and other folders) for $10 or $15 from ebay.de and then resells them over here for ten to fifteen times what he paid. Caveat emptor. There are stories. Ask around.

I think the latter posting refers to Jochen Kreckel, also known as certo6 or klappkamera.

 

However, what keeps you from buying the cameras for that price on ebay, too? Jochen is NOT the only one who is able to see such offers, or what? And he does not sell them for higher prices, the buyers pay such prices. Remember: on ebay it's the buyer who sets the price limit. Look at Jochen's feedback and check how many people were unhappy with his prices and cameras.

 

But you can easily outperform him. I made the experience that most folding cameras need an overhaul, and disassembly, cleaning and reassembly of the shutter alone takes about one hour. Cleaning and readjusting the rangefinder and (eventual) swapping the rangefinder mirror is NOT included in this one hour, may take another one. If you take less for two hours of work (which needs some experience) than Jochen does you can sell the overhauled cameras MUCH cheaper than he does.

Bob Chong wrote: "I thought the Ennagon is a triplet. There is some resolution info here http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/cameras/balda.html"

 

The Ennagon is supposed to be better than the Ennit and Ennar lenses. I suspect it to be a Tessar-type.

 

If you look at the resolution chart you can see that the resolution in the center is best at f:22. I believe the focus has to be adjusted on that camera.

 

Winfired, that's Jürgen Kreckel, not Jochen. ;)

thanks for your replies...

<br><br>

patrick, the already mentioned mr. kreckel is currently autioning such a

camera (not that it's my job to point out other peoples auctions but i didn't

know when i posted yesterday) with <i>"a coated f2.8/80mm four element

Ennit lens."</i> would you disagree that the ennit is a four element???

<br><br>

then i've seen (on the net) models with baldanar, they're usually 3.5 i believe.

triplets???

<br><br>

what i'm looking for is a lens that's reasonably sharp when stopped down, and

i mean at the edges as well, but wide open, i'd actually like it if it was a bit soft

(no make that <b>REALLY SOFT</b>) at the edges, though still sharp at

center. for a shallow dof, i'd like one with as large max aperture as possible,

that's 2.8 i suppose. ...maybe i'm asking for two lenses in one....??

<br><br>

fwiw i've done buisness with mr. kreckel, yes his prices are somewhat higher

than what you could do at the auction site, but my perkeo works really smooth

and i'm no repairman... i'd recommend him anyday!

The Ennit seems to be a four element lens. It says so on a couple of pages I found through google.

http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/rollop_automatic.html

 

"The lens is a Enna Werk Munchen Ennit 8cm, f2.8 - 22, single coated, four element, 3 group, tessar design."

 

"Camera is a moderate picture taker, soft pictures due to the wide aperture design for a tessar lens."

Speaking of two lenses in one, Thorir, that was kind of the conclusion I came to about my Balda with Meyer Trioplan (which apparently is one of the better triplets). If you look at some of the examples I posted on this thread, in particular the last two examples at the bottom, it's almost like 2 different lenses going from f22 to f2.9.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007jej

Joe, thanks for the reminder to go back for another look at those Trioplan shots of yours. You got a lot of good ones and obviously learned a lot by systematically trying many possibilities. I've started using a cable release much more often with my folders; I think it is particularly good on my Dolly with the Trioplan as there is a high probablity of moving the camera when you push the shutter release on the very front of the camera. With the Dolly, I can thread the cable release through the corner of the handle and it is a lot more ergonomic. I really got into using the cable with my old Brownie folder because I determined that it was camera shake rather than lens quality that was the real limiting factor in image sharpness.<br>    I tend to shoot a lot of architectural stuff and other subjects with emphasized perspective, so I seldom feel any need to shoot wider than f8, and will usually go much smaller if possible. Using high-speed film helps me get into the small apertures with good dof, and with the Brownie I am usually working in the f32 to f64 range. My technique with all the folder lately has been just set the aperture to the optimum and to vary the speed as necessary. With the cable release, I am getting comfortable at 1/25th hand-held.

<<Winfired, that's Jürgen Kreckel, not Jochen. ;)>>

 

Patrick, that's Winfried not Winfired

hank boneroneo wrote:

<<Winfired, that's Jürgen Kreckel, not Jochen. ;)>>

Patrick, that's Winfried not Winfired

 

I know. I just typed too fast.

 

/Patric, with no "k". ;)

Ennar is 3-element, Ennagon is 4-element lens. Cameras with Ennagon lenses are much scarcer and usually more expensive.

Ennit is definitely a 4-element lens. Some of the Polaroid 110b cameras were fitted with the Ennit lens (I have one).

"However, what keeps you from buying the cameras for that price on ebay, too? Jochen is NOT the only one who is able to see such offers, or what?"

 

There are a couple of factors. One, he has a confederate in germany who he can have things drop-shipped to, since the ebay.de auctions tend to favor "will ship to germany, eu only." Second, he is a shameless sniper. I know this is all fine and good, but his top bids will always beat anyone elses, because he knows he can average his cost down on other cameras he gets for cheap. He has cornered the german market on folders, especially ones with 4 element lenses. I am not exaggerating. I defy, DEFY anyone to try and win an ebay.de auction for a folder with a 4 element lens. It cannot be done. JK will snipe you every single time. Basically, if he cannot have the camera for $20, he will punish you for joining the auction by bidding up past the normal market value, just so he can maintain his corner on the market. It is very shrewd and is interesting to observe.

 

Likewise, I admire his ability to reap thousands of dollars of tax-free, unreported income.

 

As for the quality, like I said, there are stories.

and this thread started as a ... uhhh, lens choices on a super baldax..

<br><br>

thanks for the replies all, i now know a little more than i did before, an ennit

and an ennagon being four elements, ennar (and i presume baldanar(?)

being triplets). i think i'll just go out and get me one, probably not JK's though,

since this is a pet project on a limited budget.

<br><br>

bob you seem to have investigated a certain camera repairman/buyer/seller, i

honestly hope you're wrong but since i don't know anything about it, i'm gonna

keep my mouth shut about it. although, after reading your words of doubt, i do

look forward to see what kind of job he did on an old voigtlander i did send

him for an overhaul.

<br><br>

but thanks again for the replies and comments, joseph for the comparison

pictures.

<br><br>

patric, sorry about the "k".. ;-)

" I know this is all fine and good, but his top bids will always beat anyone elses, because he knows he can average his cost down on other cameras he gets for cheap."

 

I don't know what's wrong with buying cameras in a country where they are sold cheaper and sell them (refurbished) in a country where many guys pay weird prices for old german folders. Also, I don't know what's wrong with using one's buddy domestic address.

 

On the other hand, it is true that often it is very hard, if not impossible, to buy a high quality german folder when Juergen is bidding (and he is not bidding on each and every camera on the german market - he does not stroll around german fleamarkets to find an Isolette II with Solinar lens and Compur shutter for EUR 25 like I once did).

 

But I do not complain - I am currently selling a french folding camera on german ebay, and Juergen is the highest (and almost the only) bidder...

 

I would not be so cock-sure that he reaps his income tax free. In european law, a suspect is supposed to be innocent until there is evidence he is guilty.

Another comment to this post:

 

"Basically, if he cannot have the camera for $20, he will punish you for joining the auction by bidding up past the normal market value, just so he can maintain his corner on the market."

 

Oh, a single bidder can bid up past the normal market value? I always thought that the non-winning bid is just a few cents below the winning bid. Just be honest: one person can't push the price on ebay. It takes a few others to do so.

 

"Likewise, I admire his ability to reap thousands of dollars of tax-free, unreported income."

 

As mentioned, this is your opinion, not supported by any facts. What would you say if someone states in a public forum that you make 'unreported income' via ebay and does not mention a SINGLE fact?

 

"As for the quality, like I said, there are stories."

 

Strange enough - in photo.net there aren't any. Did we stumble across a wise man who knows more about Juergen's work than all photo.net and ebay customers do?

 

May I ask you to be quiet for a while until you can bring evidence for the things you claim.

Actually, Win, you're wrong. The orginal question was "what's keeping you from buying at the same price." I just told you what: someone who has cornered the market. Is it perfectly legal? Of course.

 

"Oh, a single bidder can bid up past the normal market value? I always thought that the non-winning bid is just a few cents below the winning bid. Just be honest: one person can't push the price on ebay. It takes a few others to do so."

 

I'll make it simple for you. If your name is Jurgen you can buy super baldaxes for $20. If your name is Bob you can bid 20, but Jurgen will outbid you. So you bid 120, and Jurgen will outbid you. He will bid and bid you higher, because the idea of cornering the market means that he cannot let anyone else buy a high quality folder for LESS than what he, personally, would SELL it for himself. By cornering the market, he can ensure that he sets the price. Look at his ebay.de finshed auctions. I am correct on this. He has decided, for example, that a camera with a Solinar is worth X euros. He will buy all Solinars up to X euros (and beyond sometimes), so that he can maintain his pricing structure. Just look at how much he buys. If this is not the definition of cornering the market, please tell me the economics books you have been reading so I can learn about your planet.

 

Thank you.

First, I wonder where all the four-lens-element folders on my shelf come from? Was Juergen just sleeping when I bought them from ebay? There is even a CertoSix among them... I can hardly believe that Juergen has the funds to buy each and every four-lens element camera on ebay. Just check german ebay for 'tessar', 'solinar' etc items, and you will find plenty Juergen is NOT bidding on. Why don't you take the opportunity (see also below)?

 

"By cornering the market he can ensure that he sets the price."

 

Strange - I always thought that in a free economy with a free market the buyer sets the price. It is true that Juergen sets high starting prices but it's the customer who pays them voluntary - Juergen does not run around with a revolver in his hand. And why don't all you clever guys buy refurbished folding cameras from guys who 'sell them cheaper' than Juergen does?

 

BTW when I see an interesting item on US from a seller who will ship to US only I kindly ask him why he does not ship to Europe. In most cases I could convince to do so. I happen to speak both english and german. Noone keeps you from learning german (or getting a german buddy) and set up a competition for Juergen's business. This way you can keep me from thinking that some guys envy Juergen for his skills in repairing old cameras.

now is the time where i, as the naive geek who started this thread, wished i

could delete it.

<br><br>

this is no venue to be mouthing off about individuals, if any of you have any

reasons to doubt another persons intentions, legally or morally, say and write

as you please, but do it elsewhere. the same goes for the defenders...

<br><br>

i know that mr. kreckel is OT when it comes to folders, but people,.. let's grow

up!

Jurgen Kreckel is a skilled technician. He is also a shrewd businessman, for which he should not be faulted. I know him and admire his technical and business acumen. He restores non-functional classic folders and sells them on eBay, where buyers set the market, and sometimes undisciplined morons over-inflate prices. That's what eBay is about. Every item that he repaired for me is doing just fine. By the way: I have beaten him on German eBay, so his cornering of that market is perhaps an urban fable. He also has an excellent, informative site: www.certo6.com

<p>Hey guys, let's keep it civil. Jurgen is a true gentleman and a pretty fair repairman. I have purchased two cameras from him and one had a small problem. He made it right and then asked me twice if I was satisfied. He has given me a lot of pointers about cameras, for free. He has even suggested that I not sell a Bessa II I had because he thought that it was a pearl. It was. He has extensive knowledge about such german folders and I swear by him. As for the Ennit/Ennagon discussion, I know that the Ennagon I have (on a Franka Solida) is a pretty good Cooke TRIPLET design which is quite sharp over 4/5ths of the frame, which is just what I want. The Ennit I THINK is a Tessar type but I wouldn't bet the farm. The Ennagon I have (75/3.5) is really well made and is up to Radionar performance. I have taken many photos with it and I will keep it for sure. BTW, I have and use some eight folders of the era: Bessa II with Color Heliar, same with Color Skopar, Bessa RF with Heliar, Bessa I with Voigtar, Bessa 66 with Skopar and Perkeo II with Color Skopar, Zeiss Nettar with Tessar (4.5). I do need to stress that I loupe my negatives and have on hand experience with the cameras I named.</p>