Sunpak 622 battery setup

Hi all,

 

I picked up a couple sunpak 622 pro's, and need to outfit them with batteries. I'll be off in the field, so need something to power around 2-3k flashes per day, before heading back to recharge. All the posts I've found are quite old now... Wondering what folks are doing these days for these flashes... Ideally I'd like to use motorcycle batteries that I can pick up around the world, though I understand the duty cycles of the flashes may be low with those batteries? Any thoughts greatly appreciated...

 

thanks,

allie

The Sunpak 622 has a number of higher capacity battery options, and an AC adapter option. Have a look at the Butkus site, the manual can be found there. I use "C" size batteries, but do not require as many flashes as you do.

 

Is a small gasoline powered generator an option for you? This would mean you could use the AC adapter AD-26, cat number 651-741. I have used a small gasoline powered generator for location shoots (in a medium sized US city) with studio lighting, and it works well.

Cool idea Wilmarco... unfortunately, a number of my sites will be a couple hours hike in. The AC adapter could work in the sites that do have good access, and for those I'll look for the adapter... though I'm not finding any available in the UK/Europe. Wondering if anyone might have thoughts of where to find them?

 

Also, how many cycles do you get out of a set of C cells? And, what is your recycle time on those?

 

re: the manual, i see a few options... i don't imagine the 510V cells are readily available?

 

thanks...

Edited May 26, 2018 by count_chocula

There's a review of the 622 here.

 

Like most maker's guide numbers, Sunpak grossly exaggerate theirs.

The reviewer above puts the GN at about 85 ft, or 26 m. This tallies pretty well with my own measurements of Sunpak flashes compared with their published GNs, in fact a little lower than mine.

 

I know guide numbers aren't everything, but a good 'name' speedlight like a Nikon SB-25 has a measured GN close to 30(m)@50mm zoom setting. Plus it has a more efficient inverter circuit that gives more pops per charge. There are also many options for external power (Quantum packs for example) that are going to be much more available and easier to customise.

 

Anyway, if you really want to lug the cumbersome 622s around, I see no reason why a 6v gel lead-acid motorcycle battery shouldn't drive it. With the proviso that you thoroughly check out the setup before going off on location.

 

Several thousand pops a day implies a high shooting rate. I'd also make very sure you're not going to get overheat problems - whatever flash you decide to take.

 

"i don't imagine the 510V cells are readily available?"

 

- No, they're not. However Sunpak made an electronic replacement for the HV dry battery. It was a plastic case containing an inverter CCT and 10 NiCd cells. I managed to find one, but they're a bit of a rarity.

Edited May 26, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

Thanks rodeo... i'm not super tied to the 622's in theory, but time is short for me, so if i'm going to switch, i'll have to do it quick. I'm just looking for a flash that will work for me in the field. I'm not a photographer, so am not familiar with the various options... Accessories for the sunpak's do seem to be hard to come by. If there were a setup that was more easily accessorized, worked well enough, and didn't break the bank much more than the 622's, i'm game...

I have a few 611s I once used with the high voltage battery power packs, but those batteries became as rare as buffalo with wings. So I made wooden C cells of dowels to fit the top battery pack. I installed a jumper from the wired dowels out to a 12 Volt motorcycle battery (actually I think it was an alarm battery) . I dropped the voltage to 6 volts via a regulator circuit, a one chip trick and several other common components. The battery sits in an army shoulder bag. The cycle times are great, not as fast as the high voltage power packs but it comes right back pretty quick, and lasts a pretty long time on site even at full power blasts.

 

For in house use, product shoots, I used a few of those 611s with the AC power accessory that came in the kit... those are pretty amazing cycle times.

 

The generator idea is excellent if you have the means of transport and don't need permits on site to use that kind of equipment.

Thanks Paul, I think i saw some of your posts in the past. I'm not able to find any AC adapters here in the UK or Europe, unfortunately. But I may give the motorcycle battery trick a try...

its about mAHrs when it comes to how long your batteries last between charges. those c cells just cant go the distance, they drop after a few heavy cycles,, but that motorcycle battery stays right up there for hours.

btw i googled regulators n found plenty ready made selling cheap. i saw a few with 12 vdc in - 6 vdc 3amp outputs going for $15.

There are AC adapters on eBay for what seem to be low prices. A switch on the unit selects 120V or 240V. You will need the normal set of international plug adapters because the plug shown on the eBay units are US style.

"i saw a few with 12 vdc in - 6 vdc 3amp outputs going for $15."

 

- 3 amps isn't enough to drive the inverter of the average flash. Most of them take between 8 and 10 amps peak to give any reasonably short recycle time.

 

Limiting the current to 3 amps will slow down the recycle time by several seconds. The flash may not even be able to recycle at all.

 

Just stuff a 6v motorcycle battery straight onto the battery terminals of the flash.

Thanks all. Yes, voltage converters are readily available. What I don't see are power cables that plug into the 622 that must look something like the square end of this: Quantum Instruments CS6 Cable for Sunpak 622 CS6 B&H Photo Video

 

The other option is to go rodeo_joe's route and use some C-size dowels... I'd prefer a cable interface, but if not possible, good to have the other option. I wonder if the flash has circuitry inside the handle between the C-cells and the plug that might alter recycle times? Or, perhaps it's just a straight electrical connection?

 

Thanks,

Allie

joe you're right about the amperage. my regulator was salvaged from a piece of medical equipment that took a 12v battery but dropped the voltage to 6v.

 

the reason for going 12v to 6 is because of amp hour ratings. most small sealed batteries top out at 7ah to 10ah. using 12v reduced to 6 doubles the ah rating.

 

https://www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-EXP12180-Rechargeable-Battery-Bolts/dp/B00A82A3RK/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1527505764&sr=8-27&keywords=12v++alarm+battery

 

 

 

that square cable is the high voltage input. quanum packs use that port. i think they came back on the market with new designs of battery packs tgat use more redily available batteries.

That square cable connector, as far as I can tell, is the only power input to the flash. Both the C cell battery pack and the AC adapter plug into it... The dowel solution is just a way to access that port when you don't have a cable connector to work with... please correct me if i'm wrong...

 

[uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] , do you know how the 510V battery actually works? Is it actually a 510 volt battery? Interested to find out... maybe it's charging a capacitor quickly or something? I was thinking about putting a big capacitor in parallel with a 6V battery to potentially allow for faster charging...

Edited May 28, 2018 by count_chocula

I just looked at my 611... Im not sure if your 622 is similar or not. The AC input is at the on off switch and is a 3 prong oval top plug. Its labeled as BATT/AC and a red flag blocks one pin when on BATT ON... the quantum pack used that port as well. The square at the bottom is for the remote sensor cable. There is another input for a 2 blade plug on the bottom of the head, but thats for a PC tiped cable and is used to bypass the auto sensor unit if you want to use it in strictly manual mode.

 

I measured the voltage on the AC power pack output that came in the kit.. its 342VDC.

My dowel rig goes directly into the battery chamber on top. I used the 12V battery I linked above and I dropped the voltage to 6V via a regulator. I can shoot for at least 6 hours (depending on flash power) with my hookup.

 

The old quantum packs used a special battery thats not sold any more. The newer models are much better using Lithium batteries.

 

I see your cable inputs are different than the 611 form that B&H photo

Edited May 28, 2018 by paul ron

Thanks all. Yes, voltage converters are readily available. What I don't see are power cables that plug into the 622 that must look something like the square end of this: Quantum Instruments CS6 Cable for Sunpak 622 CS6 B&H Photo Video

 

 

ooo

That "no longer available" is a bummer, cuz I have a 622 and use external battery packs.

That square cable connector, as far as I can tell, is the only power input to the flash. Both the C cell battery pack and the AC adapter plug into it... The dowel solution is just a way to access that port when you don't have a cable connector to work with... please correct me if i'm wrong...

 

[uSER=2403817]@rodeo_joe|1[/uSER] , do you know how the 510V battery actually works? Is it actually a 510 volt battery? Interested to find out... maybe it's charging a capacitor quickly or something? I was thinking about putting a big capacitor in parallel with a 6V battery to potentially allow for faster charging...

 

A 510v battery is a 510v battery.

 

If you do not REALLY understand electrical circuits of a flash, do NOT monkey around with them, especially if they involve high voltage or large capacitors.

Carry a bunch of NiMh C cells.

 

The problem with an external battery is that it NEEDS to handle the peak current draw of the flash. So do, some don't. A SLA should work.

BUT you need to monitor the voltage level, so that you don't drain the battery too low, and that could damage it. SLAs don't like deep discharge.

 

I think you posted before about this.

 

2,000 - 3,000 flashes is a LOT.

3,000 flashes is 375 flashes an hour for 8 hours = 6.25 flashes per minute = flash every 9.25 seconds for 8 hours.

 

The problem that you have is the number of shots you want to take, and the rate of fire.

Most portable flash units are NOT rated for a high duty cycle. Shoot TOO MANY shots in a short period of time, and the flash will die from thermal failure of various modes. You will need to switch between 3 or 4 flashes, to not overheat the flash, and to give enough time for the flash to cool down. The plastic case/shell dissipates heat very slowly, as plastic is a heat insulator, not a heat conductor.

 

The rate of fire is also hard on the batteries, being almost a continuous drain.

Contact Quantum? The have new generation battery packs.

 

YES Absolutely be very careful when messing with electronic strobes and their electronics. Those caps store a whopping punch that can kill and/or do serious damage. If you arent trained or have experience, best to leave it alone.

 

The stats on the number of shots is staggering. Why shoot so fast and so many? My typical 8 hour day may be 6 rolls of film, RB67

 

Good point on over heating!

 

BTW the flash just doesn't charge at some point... so complete discharge doesn't happen.

Edited May 28, 2018 by paul ron

Thanks for the replies, folks. I'm an electrical engineer by training, but have zero experience with flash circuitry. I'm well aware of the dangers of large caps, and was thinking (furthermore) that the charging circuitry may have such caps of its own... so adding more may not accomplish anything. I'm not sure.

 

The reason for so many flashes is that my application is for photogrammetry. I have an automated turntable setup, and would like to take pictures as fast as possible (up to 1 pic/sec) to speed up processing times. I plan on taking around 600 photos of each subject, and plan on shooting multiple subjects per day. 2-3k flashes is pretty reasonable for my application, but maybe not so reasonable for the flashes.

 

The whole 510v battery thing is a bit of a mystery to me. 4 C cells in series = 6V, yet both the 510v and the C cell compartment plug into the same 8-pin square plug. Perhaps some of those pins are used for the 6V circuitry, and the others for the high voltage circuitry... Would be cool to figure out how to DIY one's own high-voltage input. Looks doable (though not in my current timeframe - maybe a project for later): DC-DC converter, 12V to 400V? Is this possible?

 

Regardless, as you say, the fast charging may not be the limiting factor. I'll keep an eye on the heat, etc. But what I really need, first, are either some of those 8-pin connectors, or a dowling setup. @paul ron , might you have any pics you wouldn't mind sharing?

 

Thanks,

Allie

Absolutely not reasonable for standard flashes.

 

For a 1 sec recycle time you will have to set the flash to reduced power, 1/16 or lower.

Preferably as low as you can (1/128 power), for min recycle time, and most importantly to minimize heat build up.

Even at 1/128 power, I would plan to swap flashes, to let the flash cool down.

 

Dowel is the simplest.

On the flash side

1. Get the following
   
   1. 
      
   2. Wood dowel about the diameter of a C-cell (26mm or 1 inch)
       
      
   3. Wood screws about 1/2 inch long, 2ea.
       
      
   4. A decent 2 conductor wire, as long as you want, but less than 10 ft.
      
   5. In-line fuse holder and fuse.
      
   6. 6 volt SLA. You will need several
      
   7. Appropriate connectors for the SLA
      
   8. Molex connectors, if you want to make battery changing easier.
      

[*]Screw the screw into the end of the dowel, with the wire under the screw head.

[*]Cut to the length of a C-cell, 50mm

[*]Cut 2 more pieces of the dowel to 50mm. These are the spacers.

On the battery side

• The cable/wire will be in 2 sections
  
• Flash end
  
  • Insert/splice the in-line fuse holder into the + side of the wire.
    
  • I would add a Molex connector. Pointed side to + wire.
    

  [*]Battery end. You will make several of these, one for each battery.

  • I would add a Molex connector. Pointed side to + wire.
     
    
  • Attach the appropriate battery terminal connector.
    

  [*]The Molex connector makes it much easier to swap batteries. Just unplug one and plug in the new one. No hassles with polarity.

  • Important that the Molex connectors be installed consistently. + wire to the same pin.
    
  • Important that the battery end of the cable be attached to the correct terminal of the battery. So label the + wire.
    

Above is the pix of the 622 battery holder.

 

I don't know which would be easier to work with the 611 or 622.

 

If you can find the Quantum adapter/cable, that would be the easiest route. But you will need to carry at least 1 or 2 spare adapter/cables. And since these cables are hard to find, you need to keep them in a protective box, so they won't be damaged.

The Quantum adapter/cable uses a RCA plug on the battery end, so you have to wire the battery with a female RCA socket with a fuse.

 

This is the Quantum cable/adapter for the 622

US Dealers

 

This is the Quantum cable/adapter for the 611

US Dealers

Great info - thanks Gary. Makes complete sense. I've actually just 3D-printed an insert for the battery pack, which accomplishes the same thing as the doweling (just because i have a printer readily available). I've also emailed quantum's UK rep to see if they have those cables... but damn they're expensive!

 

What rating fuse do you use? Must be something like 20A or so, given the potentially high currents involved?

 

Does anyone have an AD26 adapter? Wondering what voltage it outputs to which pins...

 

Thanks all...

Edited May 30, 2018 by count_chocula

The 622 definitely uses different pins on the connector for the 6v C cell input and for the HV (330v DC approx.) inputs.

 

The 510v dry battery pack is misleading. There's a regulator built into the battery holder that drops the voltage to 330 volts. I guess a 510v battery was a fairly readily bought item at the time it was designed.

 

(Connecting 510v to the HV input will almost certainly break down the storage capacitor in the flash.)

 

As I mentioned earlier; Sunpak also sold a rechargeable HV battery replacement - a plastic battery-sized box that contained 10 NiCd cells and an inverter circuit.

 

Anyhow. Pumping power into the 6v C-cell inlet won't do anything to reduce the recycle time, since that depends on the internal inverter CCT of the flash.

 

OTOH, the HV inlet is connected directly to the storage capacitor(s) of the flash, and in theory could recycle the flash almost instantly. The above-mentioned rechargeable '510 volt' supply recycles the flash in about 4 seconds from a full-power discharge. As does the AD-26/27 mains adapter.

 

A custom made inverter could probably easily halve that. However, firing the flash continuously once per second will quickly cause it to overheat at anything more than 1/8th power. Most of the heat will be dissipated in the Xenon tube, which might crack, or melt the surrounding reflector/fresnel assembly.

 

Drilling vent holes in the plastic casing of the flash-head and fitting a fan might be an option. At your own risk obviously!

Edited May 30, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1

Great info - thanks Gary. Makes complete sense. I've actually just 3D-printed an insert for the battery pack, which accomplishes the same thing as the doweling (just because i have a printer readily available). I've also emailed quantum's UK rep to see if they have those cables... but damn they're expensive!

 

What rating fuse do you use? Must be something like 20A or so, given the potentially high currents involved?

 

Does anyone have an AD26 adapter? Wondering what voltage it outputs to which pins...

 

Thanks all...

 

I dunno.

Last time I measured a flash was 35 years ago. The Metz pulled over 5 amps peak in the first few seconds, then it dropped off. It may have been higher than 5 amps, but my VOM was not fast enough to capture the peak.

So 10am fast blow ?

Okay, here what I came up with to power the 622 with a 6 volt SLA battery pack or a 330 VDC power pack running off a 12 volt SLA battery. You need a CL-10 4 C cell battery holder to take apart first. I used the wiring diagram for the "Conversion Plug CV-1" from Dick Butkus's website ( see Sunpak 662 repair manual) and figured out the wiring from it (see "Sheet No. 68 for the CV-1) .

 

I rigged it so I can use either the 4 C cell alkalines or my 6VDC power pack or my homemade 330VDC power pack..

 

Take the 6 screws out that hold the connector for the CC-10. Be careful...they are easy to lose! Remove the shroud around the power connector that plugs into the body of the flash. if you look at the exposed top of the terminals from the battery compartment, you'll see they have little loop connectors held in place by small nuts. Undo the upper nuts and you'll see a blue wire on the positive side and a black wire on the negative side. I took a 4 pin DIN microphone jack and drilled a hole for it into the main body of the CL-10 (16mm hole) after I soldered a short red wire to the jack for the 6VDC positive input (pin # 1) a short orange wire to pin # 2 for the 330VDC input and short black wire to pin #1. While you have the solder loops out of the battery cartridge, solder both the black wire from the circuit board and the black wire from pin # 1 to it. Now solder the red wire from pin # 1 to the solder lug alone with the blue wire. Make a note of where the blue and black wires attach to the circuit board and carefully unsolder them. Now put the solder lugs back on the proper terminals (refer to the markings in the battery holder) and tighten them down. I'd use a drop of green Loctite on the nuts.

 

Now feed the wires from the 4 pin jack thru the 16mm hole and slip the nut down over them. I use a 19mm pass-thru socket to tighten down the nut for the 4 pin jack. Again, a drop of green Loctite on the threads is a good idea.

 

Now with the connector held in a vice or clamped so it can't move, solder the black wire to the lower right hand set of terminals on the circuit board. Now solder the blue wire to the lower left hand side terminals. Lastly, solder the orange wire to the upper far left terminal on the circuit board.

 

Now lay the battery door down on the battery hold-make sure the pins on the battery door are to the left as the batter door is face down. Now carefully push the wires down and slip the shroud down over the power connector and re-install the 6 small screws that hold it in place.

 

You now have a way to use either a 6VDC battery pack or a 330 volt power pack with your Sunpak 622 by adapting a Quantum cord or making your own (which I have to do with my homemade power packs.)

 

I did all this because the power cords for the Quantum Battery 1 are insane in price if you can find them-now averaging 50-60 bucks and the cords for the Turbos have vanished

 

for those of you who wonder why I use the 4 pin microphone jacks and plugs, it's because I used to use 1/4 headphone plugs and jacks and I had a kid at a wedding who'd sneak up behind me and pull the plug on the power pack loose! Kind of hard to both unscrew and pull out these without my noticing.