Suggestions on using ND filters with Hasselblad

hey everyone!

 

I was shooting some portraits in bright sunny conditions and noticed I was getting the typical sunny 16 happening. Foolishly using ISO 400 I was getting aperture measurements of f/22 and f/16 and so on. I want to get shallower depth of field, so of course I figured to now get an ND filter. Then I realized I might have a tough time focusing.

 

What are your experiences when using an ND filter on hasselblads or other SLR's?

 

If I'm doing handheld portrait shooting, do I get my focus and then slap on the filter? I feel that I may lose the focus on what I want, but I guess if I get like a 3-stop filter it will at least bring me down from f/16 to like 5.6 which is much better of course and I guess I could still get most in focus while blurring the background.

ND filters simply reduce the amount of light coming through the lens by a particular number of stops. I have ND 2, 4, 8 in my filter kit. Respectively, these translate into 1.6, 2.5, 6.3 filter factors. I have not had difficulty focusing with filters in place in any circumstance where use was appropriate. To do what you wish to do, obtain shallow DOF, you would probably have greater success by changing to a slower film. The filters are very handy in changing conditions - more of an issue with 36 ex films vs 12.

One of the advantages of bayonet-mount filters is they're easy to remove if you have trouble seeing or focusing. Alternately, you could open the aperture for focusing, at the risk of suffering a shift in focus when stopped down again. Using ND filters in order to enable a wider aperture has a net-zero effect on brightness in the viewfinder. You can probably focus well enough with filter in place. Keeping the shutter speed at or near maximum is essential for hand-held shooting with an Hasselblad.

 

You can get Hasselblad filters (e.g., B60) made by B+W or Heliopan. They are expensive ($175), but not absurdly so (compared to B60 polarizers), and one size fits most CF lenses. They are also available used, and often with little wear.

 

b60 nd filters | B&H Photo Video

 

Using a tripod would make things a lot easier, including consistency of the composition. I prefer not to conflate portrait photography, which takes a lot of planning, with candids, which by definition, do not.

Even though I have a handful of Hasselblad-branded Bay 50 filters(all my lenses are chrome C-at some point, I don't know when, Bay 60 became standard) I bought a B50-55mm adapter ring. Since I generally carry either 72 or 77mm filters with me, I then stick the appropriate step-up ring on the adapter to use whatever filter I want. It's especially handy for me since I've basically standardized on using a "Moose" polarizer with Velvia. Of course, good screw-ons cost money also(aside from being optically flat, you want to be sure the "neutral" part of ND is actually true), but at least you're not spending a pile on filters specific to your Hasselblads.

 

In any case, as Ed says, it's easy to pop the bay filters on and off. Regardless of how you attach them, you can just focus and compose with them on. It's a good idea to double check focus after fitting the filter.

Ah yes, of course I have now considered changing my film as well! I forgot to mention that. I purchased a pack of Portra 160 now and I was even told by a friend I could meter it at a smaller value as well. I forget what he said, maybe meter at ISO 100 or even ISO 50, does that make sense?

 

I guess the bayonet thread does make it easier to screw on and off quickly. Doing portraits outdoors I would probably want to be handheld.

 

I've also been a bit upset at the quality I'm getting from my 80mm f/2.8 CB lens. I recently purchased a 50mm f/4 CF lens in very mint condition from Japan and I believe it seems to be sharper. The CB lens and body also came from Japan and look mint as well, but I am a bit upset at the quality I am getting out of it, even when I use flash. I'm now most likely going to pick up a very nice mint RZ67 Pro I or Pro II this week from one of those Japan sellers as well, there are some absolute mint ones on ebay.

The Portra films have an enormous amount of latitude, and color print films in general can handle overexposure pretty gracefully(although some films are pickier than others-Ektar, IMO, is best at box speed while I use to routinely shoot Superia 400 at 200 as a matter of course).

 

I don't think you'd notice any issues except for possibly slightly more difficult scanning if shot Portra 160 at EI 100 or even 50.

 

As for your sharpness-what apertures are you using? At least my C lenses have pretty course 5 bladed apertures, and I find that sharpness REALLY starts to take a hit past f/5.6 or so.

 

The Distagon is certainly a sharp lens, but side-by-side I find my Planar to be noticeably better.

Your 80mm CB lens is probably a bad sample, as the optics are supposed to be identical to the CF version. I know my 60mm CB is perfectly sharp.

There are issues when focusing with an Acute-Matt screen that you must address. In order to have a bright screen, the "ground" surface os too transparent for good focusing. Make sure your eye is focused on the screen itself when viewing the image. Otherwise you tend to see the virtual image, behind the screen, which will result in short focus on the film plane. Grid markings are useful indicators, but you can use the Fresnel lines in a pinch, or other borders embedded in the screen. Grid marks are always in the exact focal plane with an Hasselblad screen.

 

Negative film goes to pot if underexposed. If you shoot a lot of one type of subject, you may want to adjust the ISO setting for best results. You want to see detail in the shadows. Negative film has enormous latitude to handle the highlights,

Edited May 14, 2018 by Ed_Ingold

The Japanese eBay dealers can be a bit hit-or-miss: it can be difficult to get questions about condition accurately answered before buying, and you REALLY need to watch out for fungus on any used older photo gear shipped from Japan. I'd never seen fungus infest camera bodies (not lenses: bodies) until I made a few purchases from Japan. Unless you are located in a country with zero local buying options, the dealers in Japan should be a second-tier resource: they do have a much larger percentage of "mint-looking" items, but cosmetics aren't everything and even the most well-meaning Japanese vendors will sometimes understate (or fail to notice) corrosion and fungus. Unfortunately they seem to have cornered the market on remaining supplies of Nikon F & F2, Hasselblad V, and Mamiya RB/RZ: nine out of ten eBay results for such searches have the dreaded "from Japan" note appended to them. Shop carefully: return shipping to Japan is difficult (and often expensive) from North America or Europe.

 

Re your CB 80mm Planar giving poor results: shine a flashlight thru it and look for signs of fungus or haze, as this can reduce sharpness. Haze or fungus has an infuriating tendency to localize on the inner elements of a lens, and not very many technicians have the means or skill to clean the inner elements of a Hasselblad front or rear optical cell. Other causes of softness would be Acute Matte focus error as Ed_Ingold suggested, or a misaligned lens/back mount in your Hasselblad body, or decaying foam behind the mirror moving it out of alignment. The slower wide angle 50mm f/4 Distagon would be more forgiving of this (thus appearing sharper), but the faster 80mm would be more affected, especially at f/2.8 with (possibly smudged) filters in front of it.

 

There is a slight difference in optical design between the 80mm CB and all the other 80mm Planars, which makes its performance curve less traditional. The 80mm C, CT*, CF and CFE all have seven elements and aim for even sharpness across the entire 6x6 frame. The 80mm CB has six elements and somewhat stronger sharpness in the very center of the frame, declining more steeply towards the mid-zone and edges. In practical photography it is hard to distinguish the CB results from older Planars, but a few photographers who've spent years using the "standard" Hasselblad lenses have reported difficulty getting equal results from the CB version of the 80mm. OTOH, the CB has gathered a small cult following of users who prize its more "centerweighted" sharpness when working with smaller formats like the A16 film backs or cropped digital backs. The 80mm CB has a good reputation overall: if you are getting consistently poor performance from yours, it or your Hasselblad body/back may need service.

Edited May 15, 2018 by orsetto

The Japanese eBay dealers can be a bit hit-or-miss: it can be difficult to get questions about condition accurately answered before buying

I have bought a fair number of cameras and lenses from Japan - every single item has been better than described. I can say the same for Roberts Camera here in the U.S. as well. If anything, I would prefer a seller of scale in Japan to regular internet here, though none of my internet purchases have proved to be disappointing.

I have bought a fair number of cameras and lenses from Japan - every single item has been better than described. I can say the same for Roberts Camera here in the U.S. as well. If anything, I would prefer a seller of scale in Japan to regular internet here, though none of my internet purchases have proved to be disappointing.

 

Yes, many many people have had great luck with Japanese dealers and posted about it here. But the counterpoint needs to be mentioned occasionally: the humidity and environmental factors there are brutal on old photo gear, leading to a higher than average percentage of fungus and corrosion afflictions. One also needs to make a distinction between traditional Japanese "sellers of scale" with a significant presence outside eBay, and the hundreds of mundane Japanese "dealers" with multiple eBay handles. Europeans and travelers dealing directly with the major Japanese dealers via their websites or in-person report the most positive experiences, because those dealers do in fact sort their avalanche of stock in terms of environmental wear and steer non-native customers to more appropriate items. The obfuscating proliferation of eBay-centered dealers whose listings consist solely of copycat bullet lists with indecipherable phrasing? Not so much. You can acquire excellent vintage photo gear from Japan, but you need to screen it carefully, same as you wouldn't buy just any random Nikon F2 or Rolleiflex from Joe Nobody in the Florida Everglades.

 

No dealer is perfect. I've bought fantastic items from Roberts Camera, but also received items three grades lower than their listing photos and descriptions promised. Ditto the legendary KEH: their bargain-grade items often turn out to be Exc+, but you can also overpay for something they rate as Exc+ only to discover it was run over by a cement truck and nobody at their warehouse even bothered to check if the meter or shutter worked before grading it so high. Big dealer, small dealer, eBay or old-line traditional, Japanese or local: get a proper return guarantee and read the listings like a forensic scientist before hitting that Buy button. The global supply of classic used film cameras and lenses isn't what it used to be: the sudden spastic price crash spurred by digital caused a feeding frenzy that badly distorted supply/demand patterns a decade ago. Much of the truly Exc+ stuff was picked over and removed from circulation, leaving a glut of "looks great but rather problematic" items for us to sort thru today. Japan is no less affected by this, perhaps more.

Edited May 15, 2018 by orsetto

"looks great but rather problematic"

Some folks just didn't get their fair share of Luck! Sorry!

I believe that I read somewhere that the CB lenses were optically identical and only lacked some bells and whistles. I'd say that one less element in the CB version is more than a slight difference! I wonder if that difference holds true for my 60mm CB.

 

As for Japan, their offerings seem poorly graded and often vastly exaggerated. Something may be MINT, but not TOP MINT +++. I've also seen Hasselblad backs rated Exc+++ that did look run over by a truck. And how did they get all that Hasselblad gear? Did every Japanese own one? At any rate, their prices seem ridiculously high in many cases. You have to believe that they will come down when they can't clear the market.

I believe that I read somewhere that the CB lenses were optically identical and only lacked some bells and whistles. I'd say that one less element in the CB version is more than a slight difference! I wonder if that difference holds true for my 60mm CB.

 

Of the four CB lenses, two were identical to their CF/CFE counterparts, one was redesigned to be less expensive, and one was a completely new design not offered previously. Your 60mm CB was the most interesting story: the same optics as any other version, an excellent performer with perfect ergonomics (I really like mine, too). If anything, the later "prestige" 60mm CFi made jaws drop when it was revealed to be nothing more than the 60mm CB with a shutter-deactivation setting for easier use with focal-plane bodies, at a 30% higher price. Most enthusiasts agree the CB is the "sweet spot" version of the 60mm range in terms of price, handling and performance. I own both the CF and CB: I liked the CF until I stumbled onto a great deal on the CB that I couldn't pass up (the CF feels crude in comparison, I never use it and should really sell it.) The rarely seen, scarce CB version of the 120mm Makro Planar is like the 60mm: same optical configuration as the CF/CFi. I found one after a long search, but didn't like the handling of the CB barrel in 120mm focal length: the CB/CFE/CFi ergonomics are wonderful in shorter barrels but less appealing to me on larger lenses (i.e. I also prefer the 50mm CF/FLE and 150mm CF over the later CFi).

 

The 80mm CB has the controversial 6-element redesign which still causes no end of debate. At the time it was introduced, the 6-element CB enabled sufficient cost reduction for Hasselblad to retain its margin with an "entry-level" 501c body/back/lens kit, so it served its purpose. Today, it is perversely one of the more expensive second-hand 80mm variants, simply by dint of being much newer than the much more common CF yet cheaper than the hyper-inflated CFE. The CB is very good, but its "look" is different enough from most other Hasselblad lenses that traditionalists sneer at it. Ditto the CB Tessar 160mm f/4.8, intended as an alternative to the 150mm Sonnar: it has some advantages over the "premium" lens (handling, weight balance, more sharpness for certain subjects) but its rendering is different enough that it remains in the doghouse as most unloved Hassy lens ever sold. I borrowed one awhile back and liked it, but still prefer my older Sonnar. Nothing "wrong" with the 80mm and 160mm CB: much like the better-received 180mm CF/CFi, they have more "modern" imaging character. Depending on cost they can be an excellent choice, but in the past year or so asking prices for CBs have shot up to where they no longer offer a price incentive: the 60, 80, 120 and 150 CF versions have (ironically) evolved into the "budget" option now.

well then....anyone in NYC want to take a look at my CB lens to let me know? :)

Returning to the original question of ND filters with Hassy- I've basically tossed in the towel of using ND filters beyond 2-4x on any SLR/DSLR because the image was too dim to definitively achieve perfect focus, and save the really powerful ones for my RF and TLR bodies. The answer, for me, re SLR/DSLRs, has been the choice of slower films or lower ISO selections wherever possible.

A filter increases the length of an optical path by about 1/3rd its thickness. That's significant if mounted behind or in the middle of a lens, but can be ignored if in front of the lens, except for extreme closeups. Focusing with or without the filter in place gives essentially the same results. Changing aperture changes the focus in many lenses. I haven't seen any specific information regarding focus shift in Hasselblad lenses. It's worth checking.

Not particularly 'blad related, but I recently bought a Heliopan ND filter and was totally disappointed.

 

The filter was an ND 3.0 (x1000), and turned out to be thick as a brick, giving severe vignetting, and not at all neutral. No sign of any coating either, despite being labelled 'digital'.... unless that means only the variable white balance and post-processing of digital could render it useable!

 

I've previously used a cheap no-brand filter of around the same density, which showed very little vignetting and was much more neutral. Still no sign of coating though.

 

Anyhow, this'll be the last time I buy Heliopan filters.

 

Incidentally, I had very little trouble viewing through the filter using the live view option of a digital camera.

I'm using Lee drop in filters. It has a bayonet mounted holder ring. Shot this through the Lee Big Stopper.

Hasselblad 501CM, Zeiss Planar 80 2.8, 10 stop ND, 3 min 50 sec, Ilford Delta 100, Ilfosol 3 (1-9), Epson 850.

I'm using Lee drop in filters. It has a bayonet mounted holder ring. Shot this through the Lee Big Stopper.

Hasselblad 501CM, Zeiss Planar 80 2.8, 10 stop ND, 3 min 50 sec, Ilford Delta 100, Ilfosol 3 (1-9), Epson 850.

[ATTACH=full]1245811[/ATTACH]

 

This is great! It's easy of course when you're using a tripod though, but my initial question was for portrait shooting handheld outdoors.

Changing aperture changes the focus in many lenses. I haven't seen any specific information regarding focus shift in Hasselblad lenses. It's worth checking.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I haven't found a way to manually stop down my C lenses.

Sorry, no live view in older Hasselblads, even with a digital back, The X1 maybe.

 

A square filter holder on the lens is bulky, but not particularly difficult to handle. It's similar to a compendium lens shade, which I use on the road, leaving conventional lens shades at home. I believe there's a way to add gel filters to the compendium shade. The shade has a latch which lets you swing it out of the way for focusing or adjusting a polarizer.

 

The OP is looking to use an ND filter to open the aperture, keeping the shutter as fast as possible.

This is great! It's easy of course when you're using a tripod though, but my initial question was for portrait shooting handheld outdoors.

Same concept but, you most likely wouldn’t be using a 10 stop filter. The Lee system should work for portraits also. It may look odd with a frame and square filter in the front of the camera.

BTW Ed, do you think the compendium shade is actually an improvement? I have one but have yet to use it. Seems like it would act like a sail in the breeze.

Sail in a breeze? Perhaps, but that hasn't been a problem. I've had tripods blow over with nothing more than a bare Hasselblad (lake shore, Chicago). The solution was to spread the legs (Gitzo) to a wider angle.

 

The compendium shade is bulky and has odd protrusions, but folds nicely to fit a pocket in my backpack. I have three fixed hoods, which take more space than that, and don't stack. I bought it about the same time I got a CFV16 digital back. The shade has markings which make it easy to match the coverage to the lens. For an 80 mm lens, I set it to 120 mm, etc. For longer lenses, there are inserts to restrict the coverage below that of the bellows alone. If you use a cable release, there's a 30 degree offset extension which makes it easier to attach to the camera with the shade in place. The pleated, blackened interior of the shade is highly effective at reducing reflections.

 

A good lens shade improves the contrast for landscapes and any situation which has bright areas off axis.