subjects and geography

I have noticed that the choice of subject and the presentation style

greatly depends on the georgraphical location from where the

photographer belongs.

 

As an example, the Indian and Asian photographers still prefer

abstaining themselves from nudity and largely concentrate on subjects

as nature, sadness, religion, dances. On the other hand, western

photographers are quite comfortable with nudity and their presentation

is also differnt as in the choice of colors and circumstances.

 

I would love to hear opinions from everyone in relation to this string.

 

bye,

 

harish

" the Indian and Asian photographers still prefer abstaining themselves from nudity and largely concentrate on subjects as nature, sadness, religion, dances. On the other hand, western photographers are quite comfortable with nudity" - I disagree.

 

If you'll bring me photo.net examples, i will do that too:)

I can't say I agree in the least. Artistic nude photography is very much alive in Asia. A quick search in Google will find you plenty of Japanese photographers shooting nudes (and I don't just mean erotic schoolgirl pictures).

 

Here's one right here on Photo.net<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/227531">Fumio Hanano</a>

The tradition of each country has its strenght. As you name India for example, it is the birthplace of spirituality. So the artists that grow up in the tradition of this country may find their themes more connected with the various forms of spiritual influence.

China for example is in the tradition of balance and tao, the harmony between man and nature, therefore their weightage is more on the expression of this harmony and beauty.

So, basically i believe it is the soul of the different countries that influence their artists.

Since the western culture nowadays is more rooted in the freedom of the mind and living it is wanting in the value of traditional backgrounds and therefore the artists have to make up more by searching in their own individuality which naturally leads to different results.

Dear Members,

 

Thanks for the input you gave me. Replying to Csab, I will say that there are many Indian photgrpahers on this site and whose work never touched nudity. As Brend and Mike said, nudity and eroticism has been a powerful force in India. ANybody who has visited this country will agree with me when i say that most of the Indian temples of the earlier century had a very high nudity content in the sculptures.

 

However this was mostly spiritual and according to me, accepted to the society. However modern day India and Asia, are loosing there own cultural independence and creativity to Western forces. For us wh oenjoy art, its not necessary which side of the globe we are, whats necessary is that the art is being lost.

 

I will still stick to my stand that leaving a few, nudity and bold topics have not been touched by Asians and Indian's in most of the Art forms including Photography.

 

I will welcome your comments,

 

Peace

 

Harish

"As you name India for example, it is the birthplace of spirituality."

 

What a load of nonsense.

I don't think that characterizing India as the "birthplace of spirituality" is off at all. Hinduism is the oldest of the 5 major religions, and India is the birthplace. I'm not trying to start a religious debate here, nor am I in any way stating that Hinduism is superior as a religion. Just backing up that the statement above is not that far off.

I apologise. When I hear about India's spirituality I reach for my gun.

Dear Bob,

 

With all due respects, I am really amazed by the comments you have posted here. I dont see a reason why you should reach for a gun.

 

I would like to highlight that this is the same kind of mentality which leads to so many of the worthless and fruitless wars and rifts which have plagued the human society on the whole.

 

On the lighter side, you are standing on the comfortable side of the gun. Can you dare to stand when someone's pointing that same stuff on you. I have serious doubts..

 

Sorry if you felt bad, or if anyone else feels bad on reading this. But then certain remarks like the one which Bob gave needs to be answered and I tried to be as polite as I could.

 

Peace

 

Harish

<i>I will still stick to my stand that leaving a few, nudity and bold topics have not been touched by Asians and Indian's in most of the Art forms including Photography.</i><p>

 

Feel free to stick your head in the sand, nudity has been very common in Japanese photography for the last hundred years, and other art forms for longer. "Erotic" art has been around also. The most well-known modern Japanese photographer is Araki, who has shot prodigious numbers of nudes and also quite a bit of bondage. After Araki, there's Moriyama, who has shot less nudes but still has shot them.<p>

 

I'm not sure why it matters, but it's certainly there.

"When I hear the word culture, I reach for my gun,"--Herman Goering

 

As for Indians and nudity, they have been sculpting it thousands of years longer than the West has been photographing it.

"As for Indians and nudity, they have been sculpting it thousands of years longer than the West has been photographing it." Right! But then what happened now, why it is seen as a taboo is my question?

 

I should bring to your knowledge that in a particular Asian country, on certain occasions naked women were made to sleep on the table on which food was to be served. Imagine yourself eating something straight from a womans body. And it was accepted.

 

However, though accepted as a part of Art and religion, nudity has never been accepted as a part of day to day life in most of the Asian countries. Nudity has always been an artists imagination more than a matter of fact kind of thing.

 

Anyways thats just a thought, a healthy discussion is always welcome

 

peace

 

Harish

Is there more to the question by the oritinator then the innocents of the question?<p>

 

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00A2RY">request to the female photographers to pose nude for themselves</a><p>

 

A fuller explanation, to me, is in order as I doubt the veracity of the innocents of the question in that it's cross posted without benefit of notation.<p>

 

Lots and lots of naked pics out there in photo.net land and otherwise. And I'm sure naked pics are a thriving industry, art or otherwise, in India and elsewhere's as it's one of human's strongest drives; the procreation/continuation of the species.<p>

"Imagine yourself eating something straight from a womans body. And it was accepted." -I need no imagination for that, only memory ;)

 

Jokes aside, of course i agree on that there ARE indian photographers who never shoot nudity. There are photographers EVERYWHERE who never shoot nudity. But i didn't think this was your original question/idea. I might have misunderstood it, but i thought you mean it as a GENERAL observation on the (well-regarded, famous or casual) asian/indian photographers, which is, as shown above with examples, not true.

 

You also focus more on indians, which is understandable (since they are quite a big part of Asia and since probably that's what you are yourself so you should know it better), however, i don't know many indian photographers so i cannot comment on that. BUT! i know about Bollywood and the high volume of erotic movie production of India, comparable to (or exceeding?) the western production. Might not be a valid replacement for my lack of knowledge in contemporary indian art/photography but it should certainly be related to the culture, cultural background and the NEEDS of the people in that geographical region.

 

Finally, don't forget that a large part of Asia is islamitic, which is a quite limiting factor on the subject of nudity.

"For us who enjoy art, its not necessary which side of the globe we are, whats necessary is that the art is being lost." -I'm not sure i understand this sentence. Maybe you mean "conserved" and not "lost"? or something else?...

There's an article in last week's "India Today" (weekly news magazine) on India's thriving porn industry.

 

I don't think photographers abstain from any subject for purely cultural reasons (one of the best photographers of nudes I've met is from Bombay). People do whatever they do. Don't take photo.net as your sample.

My question was meant to be a general observation, a study on the sociological and cultural aspects of the human society. It was and is never meant to mean anything other than a social discussion.

 

I think many of us including me have really ignored the real questions and my comments and divulged into something that I never intended to raise.

 

For me, photography is an art. Also in this community, if someone looks at the comments given to nude photgraphs, there has always been a stress on the line of demarcation between pornography and artistic imagary.

 

I am sure that noone here contributes to promote pornography. Pornography has always been common, be it Asia or the Western world. However presentations of emotions and thoughts based on nudity has still been a very less talked subject in the Asian world.

 

I hope that I have been able to explain myself is a way more befitting to the readers. Once again I should reinstate that the discussion which I have tried to have here stresses on the Sociological and other aspects of photgraphy and cultural differences.

 

Peace

 

Harish

Dear Thomas,

 

You asked about the other thread I had posted on the site. It was about photgraphers posing nude for themselves. The only reason I posted that thread is that many like me feel that a person can bring in the correct emotions , whats on their mind if they do it themselves.

 

It was just an opinion and if you go through the thread you will find two other fellow members affirming me.

 

I hope this answer would have been satisfactory.

 

Bye,

My friend David de Souza photographs almost exclusively nudes - I'm sure you can find his website via google.

Harish, just to expand on my warmongering position. I've spent some time in India, and have met many "spiritual" tourists there. None of them would have any idea of, say, the spirituality of a jawan freezing to death in Kargil, or a Ganesh procession routed through a Muslim slum area, or a streetkid going naked into the Bombay sewers to clean them out while a group of white-shirted bosses smoke cigrettes and joke on the street above the manhole cover, or two little girls I knew who were rented to a Danish filmmaker by their impoverished mother to make child porn movies, or the spirituality of an AK Advani, for instance, setting his country on fire in the name of Ram. Or how about the spirituality of the landlord's armies in Bihar massacring villagers? India certainly has an honourable religious tradition, but that has been largely dishonoured by the divisive social systems it has spawned, and which those religious beliefs perpetuate. Spirituality in India? I haven't seen much of it, outside of the minds of westerners on their way to the Osho ashram.

Dear Bob,

 

I had visited the URL's which you have pasted on your page in Photo.net, when you first replied to me. I have seen some of your work too and was waiting for you to write about your experience.

 

Let me at the first instance tell you that I would not like to make any comments which would be personalized to anyone here. I would rather give this subject a generalized undertone.

 

You quote "India certainly has an honourable religious tradition, but that has been largely dishonoured by the divisive social systems it has spawned..." Social systems are a part of human society. No society can ever claim that it has no social system and doesnt suffer from the malices attached to it. To have a better understanding of it, I would request you to consult Max Weber's, Theory of Protestant Ethics, where he tries to deivce a Theory based on religion for the success of the European Society.

 

"....and which those religious beliefs perpetuate." According to my knowledge about religions, if any of the five great religions have survived till date, it is due to the fundamental strengths of the religion.

 

You have stayed some time in India and it would be most appropriate to ask you if you have any answers for the questions you have just asked me?

 

The answer to the Kargil one, according to me is Patriotism, which I am sure happens everywhere. The answer to the second one, is and I stress, that Ganesh possesion and the fanfare attached was started during the indipendence Struggle of India to weave the different religions to the Indian society. It was meant to be a festival where people from all religions could participate and enjoy, showing there brotherhood for each other. The English had long rules us based on the famous principle of "Divide and Rule," where they for their best intrests made every efforts to kep the Indian society divided in the name of Religion. And the irony is, they could do it for 200 years!However now a Ganesh possesion through a Muslim slum means a lot of trouble for the law and order of the particular city you have in your mind.

 

I can go on answering your questions the way I think them as appropriate, however this wont be meaningful because I would rather like to know what do you think about such acts.

 

The Indian society is one of the oldest in the world, having seen and accepted the confluence of so many cultures, including European in the later stages (see the "Aryan Invasion Theory"). I am talking in the same lines as the United States of America, where we are witness to the same thing, with people from various countries and cultures migrating bringing so much diversity along with them. However America, compared to India is still a new society.

 

I would at this instance like to ask you a simple question. Why did you come to India?

 

I have interview numerous foreigners who come to my country, and their remarks can be generalized into two catagories. The remarks were never about the beautiful forts or the palaces, but always about the people and our society as a whole. Many have not accepted it and I am sure they would never come back to this country again. But then there are so many others who have witnessed life here among the "naked street children" and the "improvised mother" about whom you wrote in your peice. And according to me they are the real ambassadors to the Indian society. (Dominique Lappire, "City of Joy")

 

I also have no reservations when I say that I have seen so many of the foreigners who really enjoyed and mocked the pain and anguish which you quote in your examples. I hope to get your acceptance in this matter.

 

Religion has always, be it India, be it Europe or the Middle East, been an intergral part of polity. It is no surprise when I say that Church was very powerful in the English society and at times it even misused its power for the betterment of few. Should I blame the religion for such acts. My answer will be No.

 

One of the most loved personality of the Modern Indian Society has been an Albanian. I am sure you know her and so does the whole world when I name Mother Teresa. Was she a Hindu, was she a Muslim? The answer is a clear No. We never even thought of her as a Christian. Did you ever think why still we love her? Did you ever see the places that she worked in? Most of the others, including Indian will feel themselves lowered even on thinking about it. However, with pure devotion to her adopted land she worked. Never to bask in the glory of a Nobel Price or anything else. In my opinion the Jury of Nobel made themselves priviledged by making her accept the Prize.

 

As she quotes "I choose the poverty of our poor people. But I am grateful to receive (the Nobel Prize) in the name of the hungry, the naked, the homeless, of the crippled, of the blind, of the lepers, of all those people who feel unwanted, unloved, uncared-for throughout society, people that have become a burden to the society and are shunned by everyone."

 

When I talk about spirituality, this is one of the aspects of it which I am talking about. Trust me, it is very easy to comment on situations, when one has never even see it. There are people much more knowledgeble and dedicated than me and you, but the answers to the social problems are not as easy as it seems.

 

When you talk about society as a whole, America itself suffered from a malice in the name of Racism. As Martin Luther King, Jr quotes "I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews, Italians or any other distinctions. This will be the day when we bring into full realization the American dream -- a dream yet unfulfilled. A dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege and property widely distributed; a dream of a land where men will not take necessities from the many to give luxuries to the few; a dream of a land where men will not argue that the color of a man's skin determines the content of his character; a dream of a nation where all our gifts and resources are held not for ourselves alone, but as instruments of service for the rest of humanity; the dream of a country where every man will respect the dignity and worth of the human personality."

 

Has that dream been acheived, the answer is still a clear No. And I wonder from when did humans started to have a Race. I though we could only have Races for animals.

 

 

When you talk about Spiritual Tourists, like I said before, yes there are so many here. Most of them in their late 40's, trying to find out the reason for their existance. Osho's dream was to provide them with that. I am sure many of us, and I include myself in this doubt the ways he preached. But then there are so many who loved his ways, who even after his death still accept him as a whole. For me Spirituality lies inside me. I find my peace, which the sole motive of spirituality in helping people whom I know accept me without any tradeoff's.

 

I am really amazed why people from the Western world come to my country or any other country looking for Spirituality. There are so many happy people in their own country, and they didnt need to search it. They knew they had it. The bonding of a family in the Western world is so weak. Did we ever think why? I am sure we dont because we are raised in the setup and accept it. As a famous saying goes, "West has all the money, East all the peace." Ironic why peace and money cant exist at the same place. Rather than accepting and inculcating the others merits we try to pin point the demerits.

 

And by the way, isnt it a great experience for so many of us artists to have a display of their photgraphs or other art forms in a flashy hotel with costly wines flowing. Half drunk connesuiers of art (I am sure many dont even know the A's and B's of it) , trying to interpret the dying man, the improvised kid, or a half beaten, bullet hit person. Thw whole meaning of art takes an ugly form when we present them to people who could never really understand what it means to be the person whos pains and pity they are trying to appreciate.

 

I am sorry if I have hurt egos' here, but then this is what the human society is moving towards. And under human society, I have no shame to include my homeland--India.

 

Do you know where the real shame of the society lies. It lies not in having poor people, it lies not in having leppers and beggers. It lies in having people like me and you who though able, try to blame it rather than improve it. I am sure that when you talk about the "Danish Filmmaker," he is trying to make a porn on the society, the Human Society as a whole.

 

Bob, so much trouble and situations like Bihar arise because of the desire of cerain classes and people like LK Advani, to derive their own benefits at the costs of others. And when someone tries to do this, resistance has to come. Everyone cant be MK Gandhi, and where the society, Indian as well as Human is heading, people like him and Benjamin Franklin would be long forgotten if those able, like you and me, donot present the realities, in whatever way we are comfortable to the others. Instead of making a mockery of anything, it would be rather befitting if we could raise the issues and try to solve them.

 

I would finally like to apologize if I did hurt someone in what I wrote. I am not that good with words but I like to call a Spade a Spade.

 

 

Peace

 

Harish

 

 

 

The mark of a society is not in it's age but how well it's serves those in it who reside, today.

Tasty...!

 

Mother Teresa - "the Calcutta vulture". RIP, thank god.

<i>The mark of a society is not in it's age but how well it's serves those in it who reside, today. </i><br> And, what about tomorrow? Next year?

That's called the future and how "the" society handles their present will determine the future servings of tomorrow. And the further one looks out, the murkier the future servings become, so the future will always depend on the here and now and how "the" society serves it's people, today. In short, today predicts tomorrow.