Studio strobe for shooting wide open (f/1.4 - 2)

Hello,

I want to buy one strobe and (possibly) a beauty dish to begin taking portraits in a specific area left empty in my living room.

I print in alternative photographic techniques and wish to get the look of old (and modern) ambrotypes ot tintypes.

Being conscious that the old style can only be achieved with a large format camera, nonetheless I want to use my lenses wide open (f/1.4 - 2) to have a very shallow depth of field.

I have the ability to block the ambient light from the large window of my living room, so the strobe will be the only source of light. I don't exclude nonetheless the possibility to shoot with natural light from outside and strobe to fill in.

 

My question is: what power must have my strobe to be good to shoot at 1.4 and 1/250 sec max speed? I think very low but I don't know how low, and how low the settings of 1/8 ot 1/16 can go. No previous experience!

 

I know there is a new technology for shooting up to 1/8000 sec but those strobes are very expensive and now I want to check if this project of mine can start with a lower investment.

 

As per the modifier I was thinking to a beauty dish, some of them also come with a grid and a front diffuser. I think I have read there is a proportion between the diameter of the modifier and the distance you have to put it from the subject (more or less of course). Not having a lot of room, 4x3 mt (13x10 feet), I ask also how large that beauty dish you suggest me to buy.

 

Thank you very much

Which ISO?

Why a strobe at all, instead of a continous LED light?

Utilizing ISO 200 and a Chinese cheapo, that can get dialed down to 1/32 (i.e.: 5 stops) 200Ws might still be too much and shout for ND filters at hand, to reach your desired apertures.

Which ISO?

Why a strobe at all, instead of a continous LED light?

Utilizing ISO 200 and a Chinese cheapo, that can get dialed down to 1/32 (i.e.: 5 stops) 200Ws might still be too much and shout for ND filters at hand, to reach your desired apertures.

 

 

I would use the lowest 100 ISO of my Nikon D750 ff camera.

I decided for strobe for two factors, they are not annoying the model with continuous light into their eyes, they can mount modifyers like a beauty dish.

I don't know if 200 watts of a led light are the same 200 W/s of a strobe...

Could you do an exposure test using your lowest ISO, the widest aperture you have, 1/250 sec shutter speed, and light fixture at 1 m (3 feet) from your subject to see how low you must go lowering the power of your light? I would appreciate it!!!

Thank you

Edited October 11, 2019 by paolo_saccheri

Being conscious that the old style can only be achieved with a large format camera,

I'd challenge that idea.

Most of the look of old portraits comes from the sitter themselves in almost subconscious clues; hairstyle, clothing, posture, jewelry or accoutrements, etc. And the lighting. Most early studios made best use of natural light. Some were even open two-wall sheds that could be turned to face the best light. All the rest is just technique, although most Victorian studios tended to use obviously hand-painted backdrops, which add to the look.

 

I'm pretty sure that use of a so-called beauty dish would ruin the illusion.

 

There are also modern Petzval lenses available. This style of lens was very popular as a portrait lens with early photographers. The modern reproduction lenses are very overpriced IMO, but Petzvals were still used until quite recently as slide projector lenses. I'm pretty sure you can still find old slide projectors being sold at junk money, and it shouldn't be too difficult to bodge the lens from one onto a modern DSLR or other 35mm sized camera.

Edited October 12, 2019 by rodeo_joe|1

Why would you use it at f1.4? The DOF is so narrow. The eyes would be in focus, but not the the nose or back of the head and ears. Aesthetically, I think that doesn;t look very good. PLus lense aren't as sharp at their widest opening. What are your objectives?

Why would you use it at f1.4? The DOF is so narrow.

I suspect the OP is attempting to emulate the narrow DoF got by using a large format plate camera.

 

In order to get roughly the same DoF as a 10x8 camera fitted with a 300mm f/5 lens, and shooting at 3m from the subject; you'd need an f/0.85(!) 50mm lens on the 24x36mm format. So a 50mm f/1.4 lens is a reasonably affordable compromise.

. . . to begin taking portraits in a specific area left empty in my living room. I print in alternative photographic techniques and wish to get the look of old (and modern) ambrotypes ot tintypes. Being conscious that the old style can only be achieved with a large format camera, nonetheless I want to use my lenses wide open (f/1.4 - 2) to have a very shallow depth of field. . . I don't exclude nonetheless the possibility to shoot with natural light from outside and strobe to fill in. . . I want to check if this project of mine can start with a lower investment.

 

I suggest that you use the large window light, bounce the fill-in with a large white sheet and use a steel brace up the sitter's back (as was the case).

 

You could experiment with a Matt-Box and Black Card cut-out on the front of the Lens to create a range diminishing Optical Vignettes.

 

The Slide Projector Lens is an idea to create the effect, but I am not sure that you'll have an aperture large enough to get the very shallow DoF you desire - that's my guess, not a statement of fact.

 

I have used (tried out / tested) a (modern) Petzval Lens which is available now (the 85mm F/2.2): I also think that they're quite expensive for what do, yet the brass finish does look nice and the Background Blur doers swirl: BUT I think you would not get the optimum use of the lens if you are exclusively shooting indoors unless the room was long enough for the background drop to be at least three meters from the Subject

 

In summary, as I understand the effect that you're after - then it's (mainly) all about the lighting: I'd start with the lighting that was used back then - that's not expensive at all.

 

WW

My question is: what power must have my strobe to be good to shoot at 1.4 and 1/250 sec max speed? I think very low but I don't know how low, and how low the settings of 1/8 ot 1/16 can go. No previous experience!

 

Firstly, you probably don't need a "Studio Strobe" (i.e. a Studio Flash Head mounted on a Stand, etc), a "Speedlite" (Hot-shoe Mount) Flash a remote or wired trigger would suffice and be less expensive.

 

Secondly as already mentioned, it depends what ISO you're using, (and you've answered that).

 

Thirdly it depends how far away the Flash Head is set from the Subject.

 

Fourthly it depends what Light Modifiers you use, any Modifier between the Flash and the Subject will reduce the intensity of the light hitting the Subject.

 

If, after reading these replies you're still set on buying a Studio Strobe then the matter of which to buy can be discussed further.

 

WW

I suspect the OP is attempting to emulate the narrow DoF got by using a large format plate camera.

 

In order to get roughly the same DoF as a 10x8 camera fitted with a 300mm f/5 lens, and shooting at 3m from the subject; you'd need an f/0.85(!) 50mm lens on the 24x36mm format. So a 50mm f/1.4 lens is a reasonably affordable compromise.

You computations seem about right to me, Joe. :)

Why would you use it at f1.4? The DOF is so narrow. The eyes would be in focus, but not the the nose or back of the head and ears. Aesthetically, I think that doesn;t look very good. PLus lense aren't as sharp at their widest opening. What are your objectives?

 

Sorry for this late reply, I thought I had email alerts but none arrived. My objective is exactly to obtain what you think could be not looking good! The world is so full of variety! ;)

Firstly, you probably don't need a "Studio Strobe" (i.e. a Studio Flash Head mounted on a Stand, etc), a "Speedlite" (Hot-shoe Mount) Flash a remote or wired trigger would suffice and be less expensive.

 

Secondly as already mentioned, it depends what ISO you're using, (and you've answered that).

 

Thirdly it depends how far away the Flash Head is set from the Subject.

 

Fourthly it depends what Light Modifiers you use, any Modifier between the Flash and the Subject will reduce the intensity of the light hitting the Subject.

 

If, after reading these replies you're still set on buying a Studio Strobe then the matter of which to buy can be discussed further.

 

WW

 

Hello,

thanks for the answers, unfortunately I never received mails alerts so I looked in here and found many answers!

I have a room with a dedicated space of let's say 4x3 meters and the sitter will be in the short side of it. I like the effect of the beauty dish because the light has a nice fall off from the face to the shoulders, so aiming to do head and shoulders images I think it is my preferred choice, anyhow they are sold with a white "cloth" to put over transforming it in a light box and also with a grid for a more directional light...

As a matter of fact I still have an old Metz 32 CT flash (old stuff from film era, no AF) that could work with a remote trigger using the camera small flash to fire it (I use a Nikon D750) but may be I would prefer to have a strobe with a modeling light to be able to make adjustments in the shape of light and shadows.

Sorry for this late reply, I thought I had email alerts but none arrived. My objective is exactly to obtain what you think could be not looking good! The world is so full of variety! ;)

Well, you have an aesthetic reason. But I wonder if the average guy who buys a .95 even realizes what that does to the DOF in a portrait shot? It might be just to say he's got bigger glass than anyone else. :)

Well, you have an aesthetic reason. But I wonder if the average guy who buys a .95 even realizes what that does to the DOF in a portrait shot? It might be just to say he's got bigger glass than anyone else. :)

 

I met once one guy in his 20's with a Leica and a noctilux f/1 just having a walk in town the way you do when you spend time with friends... But with the prize camera+lens hanging from his shoulder!

I am not that type of guy ;)

I like the shallow depth of field in head and shoulder portraits, even those when only one eye is in focus. I love when the shoulders melt away but that effect can be achieved with a tilting lens in a large format camera!

Having a full frame digital camera and only a 105 f/4 macro lens I think I will start with that to train my eye on lighting and composition while I will decide which lens to buy, unfortunately my business is not based on welthy people willing to pay very much for portraits, I live in Lanzarote and most of my clients are tourists (among which also few with economic resourses).

So a used lens, quite fast I would say, from 1.4 to f/2 (I am considering the 105 f/2 DC nikkor), while from 3 meters I could opt for a 135 mm giving more space to the subject. I haven't still figured it out while I wish not to buy a wrong flash/strobe.

Another point is the distance you need to put a beauty dish and if this could come inside your view so to need a boom support and not a simple straight tripod.

So many doubts when you start something and can't waste any noney.

So thank you for the help found here!!

while from 3 meters I could opt for a 135 mm giving more space to the subject.

Don't waste your money on Nikkors!

 

A couple of years ago I bought Samyang's 135mm f/2 lens, and it's stunning. Just about optically perfect from wide-open onwards.

 

It's manual focus only, but since when has Nikon's AF been able to cope with wide aperture lenses adequately? Only MF and magnified LiveView can nail focus perfectly anyway.

Don't waste your money on Nikkors!

 

A couple of years ago I bought Samyang's 135mm f/2 lens, and it's stunning. Just about optically perfect from wide-open onwards.

 

It's manual focus only, but since when has Nikon's AF been able to cope with wide aperture lenses adequately? Only MF and magnified LiveView can nail focus perfectly anyway.

Thank you

I have revised that lens and I think it is a very good one, I think that manual only lens is great for my landscape photography and possibly also for portraits on a tripod, nonetheless the AF feature is something I would use probably when in studio using one strobe with its modeling light.

Firstly, you probably don't need a "Studio Strobe" (i.e. a Studio Flash Head mounted on a Stand, etc), a "Speedlite" (Hot-shoe Mount) Flash a remote or wired trigger would suffice and be less expensive.

 

Secondly as already mentioned, it depends what ISO you're using, (and you've answered that).

 

Thirdly it depends how far away the Flash Head is set from the Subject.

 

Fourthly it depends what Light Modifiers you use, any Modifier between the Flash and the Subject will reduce the intensity of the light hitting the Subject.

 

If, after reading these replies you're still set on buying a Studio Strobe then the matter of which to buy can be discussed further.

 

WW

 

I read that the optimal distance where to put a beauty dish is around 1 1/2 times its diameter. I will have to decide between 40 or 50 cm so the distance of my strobe from the subject won't be greater than 80 cm or 1 meter. Very little in relation to power emission.

You can use ND gels over your flash tube to lower its output to match your desired Fstop.

You can use ND gels over your flash tube to lower its output to match your desired Fstop.

 

Thank you, I believe I will be forced to that solution. Someone measured the power I need and it is 2 Ws but to go so down there are only a couple professional strobes which are more than 1700 euros! Because the less powerful strobes only reduce to 1/16 or 1/32.

Someone here in the previous answers said that there could be a risk for the ND gel to melt on the lamp and suggested to use some thin white cotton cloth in more layers, as much as needed.

What's your experience on that?

Cini gels are used in the movie industry and are well capable of handing minimum 350 degrees and as high as 550 degrees. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself and don’t believe everything you read on a forum. Rosco gels are a good place to start reading what they offer.

Cini gels are used in the movie industry and are well capable of handing minimum 350 degrees and as high as 550 degrees. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself and don’t believe everything you read on a forum. Rosco gels are a good place to start reading what they offer.

 

Thank you, first time tomorrow I will be looking for them.

Here you find many things, true and mere opinions.

Some place to start with was this forum, where there are also professionals with knowledge, and knowledge is exactly what I am looking for like you say, even if I really am a rookie as per professional studio lighting.

Thanks again!

Keep us posted.

Keep us posted.

 

Yes I will,

I have talked to a professional photographer who will do some tests for me replicating my settings and hopefully soon he will tell me what he found using his strobes, so I will write here my findings and my final choice.

Not sure why you're even looking at pro studio gear for that tiny amount of light.

 

Using just a good quality speedlight in a softbox, I can easily get 100 ISO f/8 exposures with the light 4 or 5 ft from the subject. And something like a YongNuo 560iii will go down to 128th 'power'. That gives you a range of energy from about 75 Watt-seconds down to just over 0.5 in 1/3rd stop increments/decrements.

 

Add a Speedlight-to-Bowens S speedring adapter, and there's almost no type of modifier you can't use.

 

Also, an ND filter doesn't have to go over the lamp if flash is your only light source. Fitting one to the lens makes the same difference.

A ND filter over the lens is NOT the same thing from what the OP wants to do. Using a ND over the lens effects both the flash and the ambient. The OP wants to control ONLY the flash output and bring it down to F1.4 - F2 exposure.

A ND filter over the lens is NOT the same thing from what the OP wants to do. Using a ND over the lens effects both the flash and the ambient. The OP wants to control ONLY the flash output and bring it down to F1.4 - F2 exposure.

But he has to have some ambient light to work by, and most modeling lights have a bit of afterglow that can show up as an orange cast with very low flash power. So surely attenuating both flash and ambient together might be a good thing?