Stripes on my first roll through my 3f

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by warren_williams, May 29, 2015.

  1. I just had my first roll (Kodak BW400) processed and scanned through my new iiif. Most if not all images have stripes which are much more pronounced in the bottom half of the image. Is this a processing problem or is there an issue with the camera Shutter?)? All ideas are welcome.
  2. Hmmm. Can you show a few more examples? My first thought -- try another roll.
  3. Assuming it was processed by a minilab (since it's C-41 process Kodak BW400), it's probably a minilab error. Most of the minilab processed negatives I've seen the past couple of years are scuffed and scratched, and the scans are even worse. It's almost a waste of effort and money to use a typical minilab nowadays. Try another roll of film and send it to a good lab. Google around, there are still some labs that actually care about quality, but you'll need to mail it in yourself. Don't depend on any local shop to send off your film.
  4. Some more images
  5. another frame
  6. Warren--that looks like lousy processing to me. Try another roll as has been suggested--Dwayne's in Kansas is good.
  7. Nothing wrong with the processing.
    Warren is shooting 400 speed film in bright sun, which pretty much requires 1/1000 shutter speed since the old Leica lenses don't stop down very far. When the slit width on the shutter is too narrow, the slit gets so narrow that the roughness of the weave of the shutter curtain fabric becomes a significant fraction of the total slit width, and you get this type of uneven exposure. So the shutter curtain adjustment is off, and this is the result at 1/1000.
    The camera needs a clean/lube/adjust. Meanwhile, stick to shutter speed 1/250 or slower.
  8. Not sure what is causing it, but it doesn't appear like uneven exposure, looks more like striations like the film rubbed against something. I know you can get rub marks in your film on some of the older M3 glass film holder plate, don't know about the barracks. Could very well be in processing. Try all the suggestions, keep notes and see what happens. If it because of the shutter as John says, you will need a CLA.
  9. Thanks for the help. I used a local custom lab which I've been happy with over the years but recently messed up with a roll of film so they may be slipping.
    John & Barry - Most of the exposures were at 1/200 but some were at 1/500 (none at 1000 that I remember) but the camera is new to me so I don't know if the speeds are on target. Probably worth a more rigorous test with some transparency film to see how they are.
    Looks like I need more experimentation.
  10. If those were at lower speeds than 1/1000, then it really needs a CLA. When the bearings for the shutter curtains get dirty/slow, it affects the first curtain more than the second curtain, and the slit width gets narrow. I bet you'll find it was underexposing as well.
    This is par for the course with a screw mount Leica, don't be disappointed.
  11. Like I said -- try a new roll of film, and a different processor.
  12. The last roll I exposed before I abandoned film was processed well (clean negatives) but the scans had lines such as the ones Warren shows.
  13. My comments here are based on the assumption that the first photograph shown is in a "landscape" format (width greater than height) and the last two are in "portrait" format (height greater than width). If this isn't the case, then ignore what follows below.
    If I am correct in this, then it seems that the stripes are always parallel to the direction of film travel. The shutter travel was 90 degrees different between the first and two subsequent photographs, yet the stripes are parallel to the direction of film motion.
    If one accepts my argument, then dispense with notions of shutter misbehavior. The problem lies either in the camera pressure plate/film transport mechanism or mishandling by the film processor.
    My own, at times unhappy experience, suggests film processor errors. I suggest that you shoot a roll, get it off to a known-to-be competent processor (Dwaynes is a good choice) and see if the problems persists.
    These days, one wonders if local processors do any equipment maintenance, or indeed still have anyone who is able to perform the maintenance.
  14. This is the reason I develop my own B&W. I have a lab with a great reputation but my negs would infrequently (but that's too frequent!) return with roller marks or surge marks. My home developed negatives look great and if anything should go wrong, I know whom to blame.
    Home development is easy to do, saves money in the long run, gives you better control, and gives results that will rival most labs. If you can follow a simple recipe then you can develop your own film and say bye-bye to sloppy labs.
  15. I've replaced shutter curtains in my Leica IIIa, Canon IIF, and Canon IV-SB2 cameras. I know whereof I speak that this is the shutter curtains running too close to each other.
    These cameras have very slow shutter curtain travel. It takes about 1/20 or 1/25 second for the curtains to travel the length of the exposure frame. (The X-Sync speed of the Canon ones is 1/25.) This means that to get 1/1000 shutter speed, the slit width has to be very narrow.
    Unlike many other cloth-curtained focal-plane cameras, the ends of the shutter curtains don't have metal edges folded over them. So the edges are rough, with the texture of the weave of the fabric exposed.
    This is also the classic symptom of a screwmount Leica or copy needing a CLA.
    If doing another test roll, do a sequence of properly exposed shots at different shutter speeds from 1/30 to 1/1000. The stripes will only be on the higher shutter speeds, and if they are there at 1/200, that frame will be under-exposed due to the narrow slit.
  16. John, do roller marks marks look substantially different than shutter curtain marks?
    When I first started shooting it was with my IIIc (which complicates matters) and at first I sent everything out. I got scratches, surge marks, and all sorts of problems from labs. I once saw roller marks that looked like this on some C41 B&W that was processed at a small town lab I wasn't familiar with. I started doing my own developing and have never seen marks like this again from my IIIc. It would be helpful to know what the differences are.
  17. It looks like an issue with the shutter curtains. You might try looking at them with the lens off, fire and advance the curtains. First thought, as stated above, is the ends are frayed. I've had capping problems on a IIIf before, but was easier to identify as one end of the image was darker than the other.

    Had this been a Contax with it's vertical travel shutter: shutter travel might be uneven. I had that problem with a Contax IIIa. But- your camera is a Leica.

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