Strange Mark on Negatives

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by danac, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. What is the cause of the annoying concentric ellipses in the center of this image? It happened sometime while I was developing the film. It occurs on some other images of that roll. Can they be removed? If so how? I have just started developing my own negatives for the first time in forty years. It's like starting all over again. Whew!

    The film is Tri-X
    Developer is D-76
    I used an eco-friendly stop bath
    Kodak fixer
    A good wash
    Fixer remover
    Another good wash
    Photoflo

    All working solutions were absolutely correct and timing was meticulously followed. I used well water with some mineral content for washing only but the final wash was followed by a rinse with distilled water.

    Butte2.jpg
     
  2. I'm using a fairly new Epson V600 instead of making contact prints. Photos that I really like will be developed in my darkroom. It would still be great to have nice clean .jpgs of my b/w negatives. Are you saying that there are better custom film holders that are not like those that come standard with the scanner?
     
  3. Correct. check the website i sent you, they have film holders and glass that you can use when scanning, it makes the images sharper. I don't scan with flatbeds, I own a plustek 8200i for 35mm, but I've seen results.
     
  4. Hello. I would guess that your negatives have a major cupping in them. This is the roll from side to side, not the long axis of the film. When the neg was placed in the "stock" Epson carrier, the non-emulsion side touched the scanner glass.
    I have been using the V600 series, and a V800 at times, but scan with the emulsion DOWN, just like I did for 40+ years with various condenser enlargers 2k18-043-DSCF0468 ces18 4x6 gsbc.JPG . Why Epson dreamed the "UP" thing, ??? The carriers do require adjustment to the height for proper focusing.
    I use the stock Epson carrier for 35mm but have Anti Newton Ring (ANR) inserts for the two channels. You can find the ANR inserts on Ebay or from Better Scanning, who are the manufactures of my MF carrier, also with ANR inserts. I was "lucky" in that the 35mm carrier only needed (1) layer of black electrical tape to raise the 35mm negs to the correct height. The MF carrier has 6 nylon screws for the adjustment. You will see a very noticeable improvement with the emulsion down, plus ANR inserts & adjusted carriers. Aloha, Bill Fed-2 / Jupiter-8, Kentmere400, Obsidian Aqua & V600 scan. Scanned emulsion down + ANR inserts.
     
    Moving On likes this.
  5. Kentmere 100 dries pretty flat!

    I get these artefacts too, using a v600 which is a flatbed with fairly cheap plastic neg holders. I don’t get any issues with focussing that I’ve noticed.
     
  6. Stuart, the "focusing" correction I mention occurs when you change to "emulsion down" scanning. Epson pre-sets the scanners focal point based upon the emulsion being face up. Adjustment of the carrier deck height is for the film substrate. Depending on how close Epson sets the tolerance guard band, focus would be degraded by the down scanning.
    As mentioned, I have no idea why Epson did the "emulsion up" design. Face up a scan must go thru the film substrate, an optical pathway no matter how thin the film is. I have used an extra film (cleared) over a negative to soften zits & harsh lines in many a portrait.
    There is another reason for emulsion down scanning. If a film has "cupping" (side to side rolling), 99% of the time in an Epson carrier you will be pushing that non emulsion side TOWARDS the scanner glass. . the flimsy side holders can not uncup the film. Emulsion down with an ANR glass on the top will keep the negative at it's maximum flatness for the scan.
    Since adopting the ANG insert (35mm) & using the Better Scanning carrier for MF, I have not encounter ANY Newton rings on my V600 scans, plus I do not fear printing a 16x20 from a 35mm neg that was dead sharp from the camera. Aloha, Bill
     
  7. I use an Epson v550 scanner, which is basically a V600 sold with a different software bundle.

    I have seen similar rings appear on my medium format negative scans when the following two conditions are met:

    1. The negative is extremely curved.
    2. The point of maximum convexity (usually towards the centre of the negative) touches the scanner's glass.

    I have tried after-market holders but haven't noticed significant improvements in focus so I have returned them. I have however found that the small, credit-card sized rigid insert that came with the scanner (and should be positioned on the convex negative to flatten it during scanning) is successful in getting rid of these artefacts on my negatives.
     
  8. I bought a glass slide from Scan Tech but haven't used it yet. The best way I've found to eliminate the problem is by placing the negatives under some heavy books for a couple of days. They flatten right out.
     
  9. A newton ring can happen when two optically flat surfaces are in direct contact. Use your noodle and construct a frame using bond paper (or heavier). Cut out a rectangular opening. The thickness of this mask must elevate the negative so that it does not touch the glass plate of the scanner. You can also experiment with different clear plastic sheets under the negative. Some will have just enough tooth to prevent the newton ring.
     
  10. You can use an anti-Newton ring piece of glass to avoid that problem. Search for it.

    Dan
     

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