Strange lines in negatives and pictures

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by wouk, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. I have strange lines in my negatives and pictures. This has happened to three of my last four films. Films that I have used were Fujifilm Superia Venus 800 and Kodak Ektar 100. This started to happen with the Superia Venus, after that one Ektar film was ok and then the last two Ektars have had this issue. I have developed these films in store and they are also looking into this. I tried to find any light leaks in my camera but at least I didn't notice any. Camera I have been using is Revue 400 SE. Anybody have any ideas?

    https://goo.gl/photos/Fp7EJwfCNETEmUYZ8
    https://goo.gl/photos/LD214c99fE1U9Li26

    Don't mind the newton rings in the first picture :)
     
  2. If they were light leaks due to a shutter/camera issue, you would have seen it in all four of the rolls of film. I'd definitely check into the possibility of it being an issue with the lab.
     
  3. Can you see the lines on the film? Otherwise it might come from scanning. dust on the sensor or a faulty lamp will cause longitudinal lines in the image. They are too regular to be light leaks or poor agitation. If on the film itself, the lab machine might have dirty or defective guide rollers, or possibly light leaks when the film is pulled from its canister.
     
  4. Light leaks can vary with the ambient light, and, for example, if the case covers the leak.

    Does it go between frames on the negatives (or positives)?
     
  5. The lines are in the negatives and they don't go between frames.

    I developed another film and it also had this issue. Not as bad but still. The lab thinks that it might be due to their machine. They mentioned something about two different lines in the machine that the film might go and maybe the other one has dirty or defective guide rollers. They haven't noticed this issue in anyone else's negatives or pictures but they will look in to it.
     
  6. I think your lab has a problem with their machine. Uneven development/bleach, or some light leakage are possible. You may not notice the uneveness in between the frames, and it might well only occur on some of the roll.
     
  7. Lab problems would not know about frame boundaries, so would tend to cross them.

    If you can see the effect go up to, and stop at, the frame boundaries, it has to be from the camera.
    Even more, it has to be from the front part of the camera.
     
  8. The lines are white or whiter in the negatives so of course I can't see them between frames. But I can see them in the beginning of the film before any pictures are in the negatives. And I would think that it means that it can't be issue with my camera because that part of the film has been exposed to the light before the film was in the camera.
     
  9. Tony Parsons

    Tony Parsons Norfolk and Good

    Do the lines coincide with either the sprocket holes or the parts between them ? If so, I would tend to suspect uneven development, possibly caused by lack of agitation.
     
  10. I would be inclined to lay the film strips all out in their original order, then study the pattern of (what seems to be?) fogging. Or perhaps just diagram it all on a piece of paper. This is with the intent of seeing if it could possibly be explained as fogging due to modern airport X ray equipment.

    Depending on how you got the film, or what you know about its history, this might (or might not) be a possibility. If you picked it up in person from a professional supplier, and didn't travel by air, then clearly this is barely a possibility. But otherwise...?

    Could you elaborate on this? When you say "white or whiter" in the negatives, are you saying the clear part of the negative? If the defect shows up as increased clearness ("minus density" in the lingo of the trade) then it is not explainable by X ray fog.

    And regarding your seeing them at the beginning of the roll, do you see them (as fog) in the clear parts of the film, or do you see them in the very dark parts of the film? (This has a large bearing on what the possible causes could be.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  11. X ray could be a possibility because I ordered these films online. But I have had this happened from three different suppliers so I'm not sure how likely it could be. And shouldn't 100 ISO film be more immune to those X rays? And also i have had this issue from two of three films from the same supplier. So it would be strange why this one film didn't show the effect if it was due the X rays.

    Here is a quick scan from the beginning of the negative where you can also see this effect.
    https://goo.gl/photos/PEsU651BckU8RPAw5
     
  12. I was thinking about if it could have been X rays and I think probably not. The pattern is same in every negative and it doesn't look like a random fogging that seems to be the case with the X rays.

    So the problem is either in my camera or in the lab. My guess is that the problem is with the lab.
     
  13. Hi, I looked (briefly) at your last scan, but honestly, I can't tell for sure what it is. However, nothing in it looks like X ray fog samples posted by Kodak.

    If you're willing to throw away a roll of film, I can suggest some tests. First in a dark room, pull off abound a foot of film, then while letting it dangle (or hold it down on a table, emulsion up) flip on the room light briefly, perhaps a half second or so. This should put a good amount of exposure on the first part of the film, but not at maximum, nor will this method be able to make "streak" patterns (unless your lights throw optical patterns). Still in the dark, wind the film back into the cassette (leaving the leader out, of course).

    Next, load the film into your camera. In the dark, wind it past the fogged part, clicking the shutter, as needed (note, being in the dark makes sure you can't get any light leaks due to a camera issue). Now expose one frame normally, just to have a reference as to where the film is. Next, walk around in bright light, as though you are using the camera. Put on a lens cap so that you don't actually expose frames, then click the shutter. Repeat a half dozen times or so, pointing the camera at different things; this will test for light leaks in the camera, including through the front part ( but not through the lens) when the shutter is operated. Then make a final exposure as a film-position reference. Then rewind the film, again in the dark, to guard against camera light leaks. Then get the fim processed.

    Your test roll will have a section of "uniform exposure," independent of the camera (if this has streaking, it's either the lab or bad film). The section that was used in the camera, in bright light, should show any camera fogging, otherwise it should be perfectly clear. Finally, you have a section of film that never left the cassette, if it is fogged or has streaks, the fault cannot be the camera; it is either the lab or bad film.

    Personally, I think that if the lab can't determine if they have a problem or not on their own, they ought to give you the roll and process at no charge. So you might suggest this to them. Best of luck.
     
  14. Good tips are given here.
    I suspect it was the lab's fault.
    Talk to them.
     
  15. Thanks for that tip Bill C. I will wait that the lab makes their own tests and if everything seems to be ok there I will do that.

    And in anyway even though I live in a small town there is at least one more lab here so I can always try developing my films there if this lab can't find where the problem is. I would assume that the problem is that not many people develop films anymore so they don't take so good care of their machines.
     
  16. This seem to me a processing, scanning problem or in camera problem.
    If you look closely into the negatives if you see any traces of chemical or water marks or scratches then it could be the origin of the problem. For me, I never believe the story of any Xray fogging could make such marks. Many people talks about the Xray but they don't have any proof to show but always talk something that has not happened to them. That has not personally happened to me going through several airport X-Ray machines and over several times.
    Best way is before using the new films and if you have several try to use a film which is completely different from this batch and give it to a different lab and compare the result. If you have the same problem then it is origin of your camera. I don't know what camera is yours most of the Leica cameras are very reliable and light proof.
     

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