Stephen gandy

This morning I spoke to Mr Gandy about my Bessa R2. He had

acknowledged last week in an e-mail that he had the camera. His

comment to me was that in his opinion someone had tried to fix the

camera himself. I told him I had never attempted to do anything like

that. I reminded him that I bought it from him in June, and I told

him the camera was mostly on the shelf until recently, when I

discovered the focus problem. He could not see how it could be so

misaligned without it being tampered with. I insisted that nobody

ever handled it but me. He shipped it off to some guy he uses to fix

it. Some guy who used to work for Schneider. Do you believe he is

trying to get this fixed out of warranty because it was 'allegedly'

tampered with? I don't know Mr Gandy that well.

Thanks, John

Maybe it was a returned good that was sold to you. The previous owner might have done something to it and returned it to Mr. Gandy. Good luck with the camera. Hopefully everything will turn out OK.

he is very gruff, but has a good reputation in spite of that. frankly, i am surprised that there is any warranty at all. the goods are grey market, and he charges a lot less than people with an official connection to schneider (although i guess the scheider relationship, never good, has now fallen thru). frankly, i think it would be very fair if he simply ofered a five day return policy. if the warranty stuff gets too crazy, he will stop importing the stuff -- or raise his prices.

I've had nothing but positive and cordial dealings with Stephen. I'm confident that if there is a problem with one of his products, he will get it rectified.

 

If I was in his shoes, and I got a camera back from a customer that I thought had been through a DIY job, I'd send it to my best tech and ask them to give me their opinion. The main argument is going to be: Was it a perfectly aligned camera when it left his shop in June, which is the last time he has seen/held it? If you tested it immediately when you got it, and it was OK, AND you haven't tampered or damaged the camera since (no impacts, right?), then something is really wrong and it should get fixed. All other scenarios that I can think of are kind of grey and open to lots of defensive arguments.

Stephen's a good guy, lacking that "warmth" in dealing with others. I'm sure that's why he prefers the email approach.

 

At any rate, he might grumble, but I'm sure he will have your camera fixed for you!

Eventhough Stephen from what I've heard can be gruff at times (not from my one experience) he is reasonable to deal with and when I purchased a Skopar 25/4 from him he answered all of my questions and gave the impression he would stand behind his product. He apparently makes a lot of money selling stuff thru his site (he deserves to since he provides a ton of info) especially the VC equiptment and he is certainally smart enough to know getting bad publicity on the different forums will cost him a whole lot more than paying to adjust a RF even if he or his product wasn't at fault.

My experience - and I bought and then returned a Bessa R from him - is that (a) the man is gruff (b) he does as HE wishes never accomodating requests if they are of any inconveniece to him, and © anything that would cost him $3-4 is a big inconvenience - he's a spendthrift to the extreme.

 

Here is the story.

I purchased a Bessa R body - $300 +$15 shipping - sending my money order by certified mail. S.G sends the camera.

I see it's of possibly the first production run - serial 18xx, while now serial numbers are above 140 THOUSAND - and realize it's been sitting in his closet for 2 years (Bessa R first produced in end of 1999 or beg. of 2000). After some hesitation - and being aware of the focussing problems in early bessas, I call him and request return under his 10-day no questions asked policy, which he approves (not before ascertaining that the $3 batteries have never been taken out of their packaging, as that would invalidate the return).

 

Next, I send the camera by insured mail, on the same conditions S.Gandy used himself. It cost me $12 - i.e. he slightly overcharged for shipping on the first place

 

Next I sit and wait for a cheque from him. For a week. It does not materialize. I call, and SG claims he sent it out, but it got lost in the mail. I wait for another 3 days (and do not believe him), then ask SG to issue a cheque or money order and send it to me by certified mail, exactly the way I did on the first place - and that will cost him about $3-4, so he will use up my own money to do that ( the remaining part of my $15 shipping).

 

He flatly refuses - he is a spendthrift, and wishes to hold $3 to himself, and wrings my arms metaphorically speaking, making me finally yield and register a Paypal account, for which I open a new checking (at $8 to myself), as on-line banking is not safe to mix with one's real money.

 

After that he finally sends the return, maintaining the pretence that the first cheque did exist.

 

The reason for these disgraceful shylock manipulations - to save several bucks. One does not pay to paypal its fee until one withdraws from their account (true for a business), so SG just wanted to manipulate me into accepting some of his electronic money before he uncurred the fee. Naturally, using the remaining of my money given to him for shipping was out of the question, that's his "profit" (and second common source of fraud in Internet selling according to some statistics, by the way)

 

Appeal to his honesty was lost - I demanded he treated me with the same speed and courtesy I extended when paying - and he ignored my requests, behaving the way HE wished.

 

After that he pretended to be offended, and promised to send me a copy of the "lost" cheque - a promise which has never been fulfilled.

Geez John,

 

too bad you did not 1) ask me that question and 2) tell the full story in your photo.net posting.

 

1) as explained on my site ALL my CV stuff is grey market. How on earth then could I ship it to get it "fixed out of warranty" when Schneider never had a warranty on it? Besides, Schneider stopped fixing all of its "warranty" repairs 10/1/02. They are no longer the USA importer. I hired Schneider's former Voigtlander repair tech, just as I told you I did. Your RF is not off just a little bit, it is off so much I have not seen any similar examples, other than botched up alignment attempts due the widely internet circulated RF adjustment instructions. I had a valid reason asking you if any one had tried to adjust the RF.

 

2) you conveniently forgot to mention that you did not even know your camera was under a one year CameraQuest warranty until I told you about it. Your original email asked me if I knew anyone who could repair it. I told you about the warranty and said you should ship it back for repairs. if I was not going to honor my warranty, I would not have told you about it.

I have not had a lot of dealings with Stephen, but those that I did have were quick, professional and straightforward.

 

I for one am very grateful that he takes the time and effort to maintain the CameraQuest site. The Leica and other rangefinder esoterica assembled there had been very valuable to me.

I think you are overcritical, John. From my own personal experience dealing with Stephen, he is honest, accurately describes his equipment, and ships promptly. I don't give a rip if he is gruff, cold, etc. [which I had no evidence of dealing with him by email], as long as he exhibits the other qualities I mentioned above. I'm not paying him money as a friend, I'm buying something he's got, which I want, at a fair price. Enough for me!

IMO, this thread has gotten way out of control.

 

If anyone has any problems with a vendor, you should take it up with that person or company. If that doesn't get you satisfaction, post a comment on photo.net's forum which is expressly for that purpose. There's no real benefit to posting one-sided stories (from either side) on a public form as some sort of vengence.

 

Remember, if I remember right, this is a Leica forum, not a Cosina/Voigtlander forum. And it's certainly not the publically-talk-about-your-bad-experience-with-a-vendor forum.

 

BTW, I have no personal or commercial connection with any of the participants.

It is true that I was not aware that these are gray market products -perhaps that is an oversight by me. My initial contact was to find out how to get it repaired. I was not asking for something for nothing. After a few e-mails back and forth, I was told to mail it insured with a check to handle return postage, all 'per terms of warranty.' My only concern was the thought that I had somehow tried to do the work myself and then subsequently screwed it up. If I had attempted that, I would have told Mr Gandy. I guess Mr Gandy is a 'victim' in a way. I have had a lot of bad experiences with other mail order places. I always seemed to get stiffed, one way or another - I can tell you stories about places like B&H. Stephen, if I have judged you unfairly, I can appologize for that.

John

The internet gives us the ability to rant about perceived problems with a

vendor's serices often while the transaction is underway and often in a half-

cocked sorta manner. This happens across areas of interests on the internet

 

This comes with a price: dealers we value who we see maligned need our .02

in the discussion.

 

Stephen Gandy maintains what is arguably one of the most valuable camera

sites on the internet. For rangefinder stuff its gotta be the most valuable. I visit

it nearly every day. I have transacted business with him and it was perfectly

smooth. I had a problem with my camera and he offered to fix it without

question. He sells the CV stuff at the lowest prices I've been able to find and

he warrenties them, which few (no?) other grey market sources do. The last

time I talked to him on the phone I happily yacked with him for 20 minutes

about cameras: he was neither "gruff" no "shylock-y."

 

I don't think Stephen is in this to cheat anyone out of a couple of bucks, and I

do think he is a valuable asset to the "camera community." I'd give him the

opportunity to work this out with you. (I'd have done that before posting the

story here, but that's just me...)

 

My .02

 

Joe

Unfortunately some people are so bent towards believing someone else is out to cheat them, they go about imagining wrong doings and insulting others who have done them no wrong, all the time claiming how honest and honorable their own actions are. Unfortunately, Bender is of this bent.

 

Bender bought a camera, and returned it because he didn't like the serial number. that is OK because I sell new CV items with a 10 day return for the purchase price for ANY reason, so long as it is returned EXACTLY as I shipped it out. This is explicity explained in my terms of sale.

 

when the camera arrived back, I emailed Bender that the camera arrived, and that I would send him a refund check. the refund check was mailed the next day, after offering him a PayPal refund which would have given him the refund instantly the same day.

 

Bender's imagination went haywire when the check did not arrive. after about a week and several phone calls, Bender starts claiming the check was never mailed, and that any "sane" person would have sent the $300 dollar refund by certified mail. I don't take being called a liar very well. my cooperation level at this point became zero, other than keeping my obligation for his refund. If a customer is reasonable and fair I will do most anything I can for them, but if they are insulting like Bender, my patience wears thin very quickly.

 

it cost me $20 to put a stop payment on the check, after which I sent him a PayPal payment, asking him to accept it because that was the fastest way for him to get his refund. He registered for PayPal. He received his refund the same day that I cancelled the check. I did not mail the check stop payment copy because I didn't want to waste any more time on his paranoia. anyway, knowing the inconsistencies of the US mail from one part of Los Angeles to another, I expected my check to eventually show up at his door. however, the bank stop payment xerox will be mailed tomorrow, not that Bender will believe the check was really mailed, even then.

I agree with Skip that this particular thread was inappropriate. However, being a community, I think it fair and prudent for people to be able to share their experiences with dealers who deal with Leica, and Leica related products. I suspect that Stephen is a fair business person, and probably a good guy, and I know his website is a wealth of information for most of us. There have been, however, several references to his gruff manner on this forum, which I can also vouch for first hand. He may be a good person, but he should be prepared to take criticism if he has a certain tone with people and gains a reputation for it. As for his assessment of Bender, I'd say it probably has merit. We've seen Bender's "paranoia" on this forum before.

in view of how bloated this silly thread has become, i feel i need

to expand my initial post. my concern is that long after people

forget the specifics of this thread, they will continue to harbor a

negative impression of cameraquest and stephen gandy the

businessman. as people have hinted already, gandy is one of

the most important figures in the usa in the world of high end

hobby cameras. his site is packed with useful info, he maintains

several enthusiast fora, he is the sole reason that people are

able to get some of the more esoteric cv products in the usa, and

perhaps the best case that cv could make for why some new

dist. should step into schneider's shoes. through personal

experience and the experience of dozens of friends, i know that

gandy operates an honest business. i am sure he is happier

about sales than returns -- what store owner wouldn't be -- but i

have no doubt that he will honor his refund and his frankly

absurd (in its generosity) warranty plan for cv gear. again, i'd like

to see him give the best price possible and offer only a ten day

return privilege. but he can make up his own mind about that. in

sum, i can't emphasize what a crucial figure gandy is, and what a

loss it would be if he were to pack up his toys and go home.

needless to say, i have no connection to gandy's business. i just

know a good thing when i see it. now, moderator, delete this

thread!!

ray -- in the abstract i agree with you. however, there are two

sides to every story, and it is far too easy for a customer who

thinks he's right -- but maybe isn't -- to use a forum like this to

bash a dealer with whom he has a beef. to a small dealer like

gandy who depends on internet sales, this can be devastating.

there should be some mechanism for recording

satisfaction/dissatisfaction, and indeed there is such a thing

elsewhere on photonet (and people need to use it for both

purposes). i'm just not sure that people should have

unrestricted ability to publicly denounce dealers over "gray area"

disputes. perhaps there should be a stated policy. neither

gandy, nor any dealer, should have to post "his side" here. it's

very unseemly, and accomplishes little. this is a great area for

the moderator to use his discretion.

Stephen Gandy has sold me a number of items and repaired several of my

classic cameras. On every occasion he has been a pleasure to do business

with. His prices and policies are fair. His website is a valuable resource, as

are the VC and Rangefinder lists he started on topica.com. I recommend him

without any reservations.

 

The place on photo.net to post comments about dealers or individuals who

sell items is under the "user recommendations" section under the Community

section. This kind of exchange is not very useful in this forum., IMHO.

Skip, Roger, and Steve: Your point is well taken, and as I said I don't think this thread was appropriate. You may be correct that it is not the proper place to discuss a dispute, especially regarding a transaction still in progress.

 

However, would you then say that frequent more generally stated posts that appear here such as "Can you recommend a dealer?" etc. should not be allowed? There is always a fair amount of criticism, pro and con, regarding certain dealers, by respondents, on these types of general posts also. I think it's a question the moderator needs to address: Where do we draw the line?

Personally I think that it is extremely bad form and irrepsonsible to vent one's frustrations about a vendor in a public forum, without ascertaining and providing all the facts. First, it is subjective. Second, the vendor may not subscribe to this particular forum and hence may not be able to defend himself. And in the mail-order circle, a good reputation is the immediate jewel of their businesses.

 

Mr Stephen Gandy's site is a valuable resource to the rangefinder community. That alone does not condone poor business practices, but from what I heard so far, and looking at the prices, Mr Gandy is quite a good dealer with reasonable prices and an absurdly generous warranty. I have had some email correspondence with Stephen Gandy but no business dealings so far.

 

Normally, I would advocate removing this sort of personal threads. However, in this case, there were a few negative statements in the beginning. I think subsequent emails from Stephen himself and other members of photographic community has produced a more balanced view of the matter - so anyone who has read the thread in its entirely would realize that some earlier criticisms are unfounded. The problem is anyone who has read this post before the feedback would have formed a prejudiced view of Mr Gandy. Deleting this thread now would deny them the info about more positive experiences.

 

I would therefore urge the moderator to let this thread STAND (with some appropriate introductory remarks about forum policy in the beginning) to be fair to Mr Gandy whose name has been unfairly sullied in the first place.

 

Johnson

ray -- many fora, as you know, ban recommendations (and

brickbats!!), but usually out of concern for shilling. my feeling is

that there is no problem recommending a few good places, as

long as it doesn't turn into an ad. but i would certainly be happy

if all dealer info were relegated to a proper, off-forum spot that

was set specifically for dealer input. that would be great.

I have done some business with Mr. Gandy. I was completely satisfied. I will do more in the future. I would recommend him without reservation. His business and his information source are excellent.

I mentioned several time that my opinion of S. Gandy was that of a "spendthrift". As it was pointed by some reader of this thread in an e-mail, I made a mistake. The English word I had in mind was "cheapskate", as is obvious from the contest.

 

I also read SG's provided explanation and see no reason whatsoever why a request to send a $300 cheque by certified mail inside the Greater Los Angeles (about $3-4 of MY OWN money) is so unreasonable.

 

My opinion of him as a business person stands - and I am really sorry to say that, because the web site he maintains remains the best available resource about rangefinders.

Rereading it, I think that Mr. Osterholm's question was appropiate, and Mr. Gandy's response satisfactory. It seems to me the perfect place for getting the kind of information that actually is needed when dealing with mail order photo businesses. Based on this exchange, would I be more comfortable if dealing with Mr. Gandy in the future -- YOU BET!

Traded with Stephen Gandy (he had to ship items to Germany) and all went quick and well.

 

Would not hesitate do place another order.