Steel reels.. Bleh!

<p>Just fooled around with a 35mm steel reel last night for a good five minutes, and just gave up and loaded my tmax onto a plastic reel.</p>

<p>What's the point, really? Why is steel so much better? It doesn't seem like it is. Seems more like a torture device implemented to haze a darkroom beginner :)</p>

<p>It's smoother and faster once you get your technique down. Loading steel reels is dependent upon controlling the transverse curvature of the film with the hand that controls the film that's approaching the spool. It takes a little practice. It helps to know how much to pinch. I find them so much easier that I regard learning to use those plastic ratchet ones as a setback. I really like the steel reels. It's a matter of personal preference, though.</p>

<p>You want to pinch just enough to get the film edges past the coil; but, just loose enough so that it will flex and open up and lay in the groove. Try some daylight practice with a used strip of film. It's possible to load the reel faster, and to detect loading problems more swiftly, by touch. At some point, though, a reel's a reel.</p>

<p>Do you cut the leader when you load your film? I couldn't seem to control the leader as I loaded, and it kept curling inward and getting the rest of the film off track.</p>

<p>tutorials -<br>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo-Sjkg0YFo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo-Sjkg0YFo</a><br>

<a href="

Youtube is your friend :o)<br>

Jim</p>

<p>No kidding, I just googled a few parts of your comment John, and found out I've been trying to load the reel wrong every time. Been loading it like a plastic reel. Lol, at myself.<br>

I'm sure I'm not the first person to feel like an idiot in the darkroom though. :)</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'm sure I'm not the first person to feel like an idiot in the darkroom though. :)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'd have to say no you are not, just speaking from personal experience.</p>

<p>Here's the trick I use, because I am just the opposite of you, I hate plastic and have always used steel.</p>

<p>When you rewind your film, stop when you hear it come off the winding spool. This will leave a little bit of leader still protruding from the film can. Using a pair of scissors, cut the leader off square and then cut a corner off each side.</p>

<p>When you go to load the film, the trimmed edges will go in the reel a lot more smoothly. The trick to loading steel reels is consistency in how you bend the film while you load it. Go get a roll of the cheapest film you can find, B&W or color, it doesn't matter. Pull it all the way out of the cassette and trim the edge as I have described. Practice first with your eyes open, then when you get the hang of it, close your eyes and practice some more.</p>

<p>Once you get the hang of it you will wonder why you ever wasted your time with plastic reels.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hate plastic. Trying to get the film started is a real pain. Only use it for odd sizes. 828, 127 and 116. Steel is so much easier. After I get the film started. I hold the reel with my left hand. With the thumb and forefinger. Then, by curling the film with my right hand, I turn the reel counterclockwise with the left.</p>

<p>It is easy enough when everything goes right. Lots of practice will help, but I still foul up every once in a while. I've never tried the plastic ones. I was taught that they are for sissies and wussies when I was a man-child.</p>

<p>See if you can find some Hewes reels. They're made in England, and have a pair of teeth that fit into the sprocket holes, and make it easy to wind the fillm in. It is a "knack" kind of thing. Do a little practice in the daylight until you get it. The plastic reels have to be bone dry. Any moisture in the mechanism swells the emulsion, and they jam. Steel is easy to clean and lasts forever.</p>

<p>See if you can find some Hewes reels. They're made in England, and have a pair of teeth that fit into the sprocket holes, and make it easy to wind the fillm in. It is a "knack" kind of thing. Do a little practice in the daylight until you get it. The plastic reels have to be bone dry. Any moisture in the mechanism swells the emulsion, and they jam. Steel is easy to clean and lasts forever.</p>

<p>1. check the clip that holds the leader and verify that it is center of the reel. if it is not you will never get the film on easily.<br>

2. optional: fold the leader over and make a small crease center of the film edge which helps in getting the film centered on the reel when starting. the film will not wind correctly if it is not centered and square on the reel.<br>

3. after each revolution of the reel run the back side of a fingernail along the edge of one side of the film along the reel edge and verify that it is smooth, indentations indicate that there is a buckle in the film and possibly touching.<br>

4. do not bend or crimp the film except the initial edge centering, cup and curl only.</p>

<p>Be sure that the steel reel is absolutely square, parallel, and concentric. The current "house brand" ones from China are as likely as not to arrive all bent and twisted. Quality control is something the typical Chinese manufacturers only do for the first few months of a production contract, then they start cheating you.<br>

Or, get a vintage Nikor reel in good shape. (Not dropped and bent.)<br>

Or, get a brand new Hewes reel, which is so much more rugged than the 35mm 36 exposure Nikor reels that it's almost impossible to bend.<br>

(The 35mm 36 exposure Nikor reel is the only one that's really fragile, the rest are made of heaver stuff, and quite tough.)</p>

 

<p>I concur with the Hewes reels--they are the best that I have ever used. I teach a beginning photography course at a community college where we have both steel and plastic reels/tanks--the students who master the steel reels seem to have fewer processing gremlins (streaks, improper amount of chemistry, etc.) than those who use plastic reels. Both types will work well if used carefully.</p>

<p>Here I have used Nikor reels for about 50 years; a Nikor reel goes back to the 1930's in 35mm work. A bent real of any brand can be an issue. Hewes is just a newer brand; it was unheard of a couple of decades ago. In there 1960's were several dozen brands names of steel reels; from great Nikors to elcheapo brands too. <br /><br />A used reel from ebay or worse a school is often not so true; thus can be an issue. It if is not youir own tool folks abuse them. Here I have a mess of steel reels; many are nikors bought brand new and they all work fine; I never heard theywere ever fragile. The reels with issues are few taht were drroped and or ebay buys and garage sale buys. <br /><BR><BR><br /><br />Thus a used Nikor reel from say 1965 is like a used car from 1965; it maybe perfect or maybe dented. There are fine thin wire 3 buck made in Japan/Tawain reels from the 1960's that maybe too perfect; or maybe bent. Hewes brand seems to be the in brand for steel reels; maybe I might get one if ever my old Nikors ever fail. I have enough reels and tanks so this is not an issue.:) In tanks I have tanks that will hold 1, 2, 4, and 8 35mm reels. <br /><br />As far as loading; I learned with 35mm steel nikors in the 1950's. One LISTENED TO the SOUND of how the film goes on the reel to HEAR if one is in trouble. Thie old technique doesnt work with some folks talking; music; MP3's and earphones! :) . A method of press shooters learned too is to load two films on one 35mm reel; back to back; emulsions out. Or to load films behind ones back or in a film bag! <br /><br />A plastic reel is easier for a beginner. A good true steel reel; even a cheapie is easy to load for somebody that is versed in loading steel reels; it is like riding a bike. With a steel reel one can load film even with a hint/drop of wayward water on a coil; that can make the feed in plastic ones grab. <br /><br />With the delice of film there is ALOT of old darkrooms stuff. I bought a spare single 8 oz Nikor tank with reel on ebay a couple years back and the tank as perfect; reel slightly bent. <br /><br />As an off topic question; when did the Nikor clone Hewes brand of reel come out? It was NOT a brand that was around in the early and mid 1970's in the USA when I was buying darkroom equipment for a school; ie films heyday. <br /><br />The "clone" Nikor brands back then were AGFA, Bower, Brooks, Cambridge, FR, GAF, KAY, Kinderman, Leedal, Olden, Paterson, Spiratone; even Sears and Monkey Wards too.. Many of the brands that today folks equate to plastic had their rebadged stainless reels too. The majors were once Nikor, Kay, Kinderman, Brookes and Bower in the 1970's for steel reels. Heavy duty variants of 35mm reels was not an invention of Hewes; it existed in Nikkor and its clones too many decades ago. Bashing Nikor seems to be a thing to newcomers to photography; it comes across like if ACME is the top lens brand in 2030 and Nikon and Canon is called garbage lenses; abit odd.</p>

<p>I wound up an old roll of uncut 35mm I had lying around and got it wound right on the first try. There's nothing hard about it - the only real trick is bowing the film a little bit, and that's not difficult at all. <br /> <br /> I guess I've always heard how plastic reels are so much easier than steel so I didn't want to fool around with steel and end up ruining a roll. I don't think that sort of "common sense" should be taught to beginners... Steel is faster and easier and requires what, a couple of minutes to get the hang of? Plus I use less developer, so it's a win win.<br>

The tank and reel I have is a "TAIWAN" stamped. I picked it up at a thrift store with a Beseler color enlarger & 50mm lens, easel, trays, tongs, safelight, safelight & enlarger controller timer, bulk loader, & plastic tank for fifty US bucks in '08. Whoever had it before me took good care of it all.. Everything works fine, including the (true) steel reel.</p>

<p>The big reason over the years (over 60 for me) was that it worked better when processing chrome films which then had to be lighted with 500 watt flood lights, since Patterson and their copies, no real diference. Bad agitation is bad for both systems, good agotation is good for both.</p>

<p>With SS reelsll, whatever you do, DON'T attach the film to the spring clip, it will most likely bend the film making it very difficult to load.</p>

<p>Lynn </p>

<p>I have both types of reels, and call me a panty waist if you like, I like the plastic ones. They load easily first time, every time. I like the plastic tanks because they hold a constant temperature better than the steel tanks too. Take a steel tank out of the tempering bath and watch how quickly the temperature can drop, especially if the room is on the cool side. Place a plastic tank in the tempering bath for a few minutes before you start the process and it will come up to temperature and stay there for a while before the drift becomes significant. I see no real advantage to using SS tanks and reels except for a very few circumstances. I absolutely hate them for 120. Granted I don't have the best medium format reels in SS, and every time I use them for 120 roll film, I manage to damage the film. So forget it. I use plastic reels for 120 every time and NEVER have a problem. I don't really care that I need to use a bit more developer.</p>

<p>I use both plastic and stainless. Gotta get good quality stainless reels tho': Hewes, or good used Nikor reels. Both work just fine. Might need to make some adjustments in agitation technique, but the standard techniques recommended by manufacturers work pretty well. Just use whatever you're comfortable with, it's not a competition.</p>

<p>I started with plastic, which works so simple that I don't feel the need to spend the money on good SS reels...</p>

<p>I use to work in a Lab and had to load 35mm on Nikor reels that had been dropped on the floor and bent, it can be done, also fun was loading 35mm with the sprocket holes riped!</p>

<p>For 35mm I prefer the Hewes stainless steel reels, and just about any ss reel for 120; however, I have never had a problem with Patterson plastic reels, either in 35mm or 120, so long as the reels were dry and the ball bearings clean.</p>

<p>I've been using steel reels for over 50 years, but the only brand I can consistently use for 35 mm is Kindermann. The Kindermann reels have a bent-up tip that works as a crank handle with their separate loader. OTOH with 120 I find the Kindermann loader more trouble than it's worth. I have Nikor, Kindermann, Hewes and generic Japanese 120 reels, all of which are good. The 120 Hewes reels are prettier than the others but are actually slightly harder to load IMO.</p>

<p>The only plastic reel I've used was on an old FR brand tank in the late '50s. That one was a real PITA to use.</p>

<p> </p>

Hewes reels, Kindermann tanks. Great reels and the Kindermann tanks are exceptionally heavy duty, and the Kindermann PVC lid DOES...NOT...LEAK...EVER! [Note: I originally used three exclamation points, at the end of this sentence, for emphasis but the idiot posting wizard told me I could only use one exclamation point. I can't program so why do programmers assume they can write? I'm the one with the Journalism degree.] The cheap knock off plastic lids will sometimes even blow off from gas pressure generated by acid stop baths reacting with more alkaline developers. One face-full of stop bath was enough to last a lifetime, I brought my own tanks and reels to work at the shop where I was at that time, shortly after, a couple of the other techs also bought some Hewes/Kindermann kit to use since the boss was a little tight. ...PARAGRAPH...

 

To the poster that thinks Hewes may be a knock off of Nikor reels I'm not sure. I suspect that Hewes has been around a long time but not USA imported under it's own name until maybe the 70's. My first contact with Hewes reels came via the King Concept Imagemaker; at that time the King Concept was sold by Omega/Arkay (not the same as the later Sauder Omega). There was also a line of Omega branded lightweight reels which our King Concept tech rep specifically recommended AGAINST. It's more likely that the Nikor you love and the Hewes products both evolved from earlier stainless steel reels. Hewes also produced a metal reel with a Jobo plastic core, which worked in the Photo-therm processors. And someone mentioned Bower which, like Vivitar, is not so much a manufacturer as an importer. ...PARAGRAPH...

 

Cheap stainless steel reels are made of thinner gauge metal, often also a "softer" more malleable grade of steel with inferior welds. Drop a cheap metal reel--it bends or breaks, drop a good reel and it bounces and does not distort. Plastic is OK, I use it on my Uniroller (different system of plastic reels but intent is similar to the Patterson type). Also ideal for the student, I have taught my darkroom methods to my son and a few other novices and have always started with a Patterson tank. The downsides to the Patterson system is it uses 20 per cent more volume per roll, reels cannot be loaded when wet (or reloaded if you intend to develop more than one batch of film) and the tank "glugs" when you invert to agitate, my biggest woe with Patterson is airbells on every roll and inconsistent density. If you do not invert to agitate your development is uneven, and if you really pump those tanks to eliminate airbells you get a different pattern of unevenness. (The Unicolor system is constant agitation and horizontal so it's both consistent and thrifty.) ...PARAGRAPH...

[And I apologize for the run on nature of this post, the posting wizard does not recognize paragraphs either.]

<p >"<a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=23063">Phil Stiles</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10plus.gif" alt="" /></a>, Dec 31, 2009; 08:28 p.m.</p>

 

<p>The plastic reels have to be bone dry. Any moisture in the mechanism swells the emulsion, and they jam. "</p>

<p>I can vouch for that one. still have 2 or so rolls of film sitting next to my "darkroom" after I got pissed and threw them into the next room cause they wouldn't load because I had a slight amount of moisture on my hands and it made the emulsion too sticky to move through the rollers about 3/4 of the way through.<br>

I'm sure there will be a couple more rolls as well that manage to make their way there into that pile.</p>