Solinar and "green goo"

<p>Although the subject of frozen/stiff focus on Agfa folders has been discussed on many occasions in this forum (plus links to similar discussions elsewhere), I don't seem being able to find the specific information I need.<br>

I have found an Isolette III mk2 with Solinar 3.5 in Synchro-Compur (the top of the line) in lovely, nearly mint conditions. Believe it or not, even the bellows show no pinholes. Needless to say, however, the focusing ring was frozen solid. A couple of minutes of hair dryer blowing released it to a very smooth functioning, but upon cooling down it remains rather stiff and thus I would want to take the lens out and remove the grease completely.<br>

Question: how to proceed? The ring has no apparent infinity stop. There are three very small screws around the front part, but these are cleary intended to remove the lens front element (which I don't want to do) while leaving the focusing ring in place. So?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>

<p>AFAIK, the only way to remove the old grease and replace it is to remove the front element casing (the brass piece that holds the front lens element). I suppose you don't have to remove the actual front lens element- it can stay in its casing.</p>

<p>Focus threads usually have more than one thread entrance, so make a note of where it comes out of the threads.</p>

<p>On cameras I have repaired, the distance ring had to come off before I could remove the front element casing (because of the infinity stop). Those three tiny set-screws in the distance ring need only be loosened just enough to take the ring off.</p>

</p>

<p>The green is almost certainly verdigris (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdigris">link</a> ), FWIW.</p>

<p>Naphtha (aka lighter fluid) used in small quantities so it doesn't get into the lens itself, can sometimes loosen hardened lubricants with some patience and a lot of working the thing in and out. I'd try that, before you start removing screws, etc. Preheating first might help, but naphtha is very inflammable, so exercise caution and keep heat and solvent well apart.</p>

<p>First, you made the first step correctly. Hot air usually melts the green goo on Agfa lenses.<br>

To remove the goo, you have to disassemble the front lens element. If you do not want to re-adjust the lens after disassembly, mark the position of the focus ring/dial to the front lens element mount, and the position where you start turning and where you lift the front lens element mount.<br>

You can unscrew the second lens element (the mount of which has the other part of the focussing helicoid), too. Put both parts into household alcohol over night, and the goo will be gone almost completely. I tried this after trying to prick off the goo with toothpicks from the threads, the alcohol bath worked like miracle and with much less effort. Regrease the helicoid with a grease which is NOT based on mineral oil (most machinists greases are), such as white lithium grease or silicone grease.</p>

 

<p> You all clearly know what you are talking about, but I do not and so you are leaving me behind pretty fast. Let me try to rephrase this.<br>

I know that I have to remove the lens and clean the elicoid. I've read about the use of alcohol. But, I don't know how to remove the lens to start with. What I would like to have is step-by-step instruction. <br>

I've seen instructions on the web, but all of these refers to cameras with Apotar or Solinar 4.5 lenses, which look quite different from my Solinar 3.5.<br>

What I see is a rotating element with the focusing ring that I assume wraps the first and second lens elements. The whole thing rotates from close focus to infinity, but there are no visible stops at either end. The focusing ring ends with a small annular section with three tiny screws. I seem to see that this section and the ring are not a single piece, so that releasing the screws would most probably cause the first lens element to separate - but will leave the focusing ring in place with its problem.<br>

Or, am I missing something? Would releasing the screws have other results than I assume? Or, is removing the front lens a necessary step to remove the threaded part that engages the elicoid? Am I correct in assuming that the elicoid is part of the camera, and will thus need to be cleared in situ? THANKS!<br>

descrBut I id.</p>

 

<p> You all clearly know what you are talking about, but I do not and so you are leaving me behind pretty fast. Let me try to rephrase this.<br>

I know that I have to remove the lens and clean the elicoid. I've read about the use of alcohol. But, I don't know how to remove the lens to start with. What I would like to have is step-by-step instruction. <br>

I've seen instructions on the web, but all of these refers to cameras with Apotar or Solinar 4.5 lenses, which look quite different from my Solinar 3.5.<br>

What I see is a rotating element with the focusing ring that I assume wraps the first and second lens elements. The whole thing rotates from close focus to infinity, but there are no visible stops at either end. The focusing ring ends with a small annular section with three tiny screws. I seem to see that this section and the ring are not a single piece, so that releasing the screws would most probably cause the first lens element to separate - but will leave the focusing ring in place with its problem.<br>

Or, am I missing something? Would releasing the screws have other results than I assume? Or, is removing the front lens a necessary step to remove the threaded part that engages the elicoid? Am I correct in assuming that the elicoid is part of the camera, and will thus need to be cleared in situ? THANKS!</p>

 

<p>

<p>Is this a unit-focused lens, where the whole lens (all elements) move in and out together as one unit? If so, then it has a focusing helical (I think "helical" is the correct term here...or is it "helicoil"?...and what's the difference between the two terms??). Replacing old grease in a helical is a much bigger project, as it requires major disassembly.<br>

　<br>

If the front lens element turns with the focusing ring (with the distance markings), then it is a front-element focusing lens. It has simple focusing threads, and has neither helical nor helicoil. Replacing old grease in this type of lens is much easier.<br>

　<br>

So...if yours is a front-element focusing lens, then the first step is removing the knurled focusing ring (with the distance markings). The focusing ring is not the problem-- the focusing ring is merely attached to the front element lens casing. Your problem is the grease in the threads where the front element casing is threaded into the second element casing. It sounds complex, but it will be obvious when you take the lens apart.<br>

　<br>

If you don't want to re-calibrate the focus later, then do as Winfried says: first make a note of the position of the lens ring (where is says Solinar) relative to the distance markings, with the lens set at infinity. Also, I always make a note of how far away the front element is (in degress) from the bottom of the threads (from the reference position, I screw it down to the bottom, and note how many turns).<br>

　<br>

With the focusing ring off, you should be able to simply remove the front element casing by unscrewing it. From there, follow Winfried's advice. Myself, I prefer to take out the lens glass before soaking the brass casings, but that's difficult to do without the right tools.</p>

</p>

 

<p>Hi, Bonsignore I don't claim to be any sort of ace camera mechanic, but I have quite a big collection of classic AGFAs including exactly the same Isolette 111 with Solinar F3.5/Synchro-Compur as yours. Most had either stuck or stiff focussing when I got them. </p>

<p>I've got the majority of them working just fine again, without undoing any of those damn ****** tiny screws. Your heat treatment with the hair dryer has shown that it's just a matter of getting some lubricant into that 'green goo' before it re-solidifies. Grease is a mixture of a waxy base with some lubricating oil interspersed, and on old AGFAs the lubricating stuff either evaporates or just plain wears out, leaving the green goo waxy base progressively jamming things up. </p>

<p>All you need to do is give it that hair dryer treatment again until it frees up, and then apply a few very short squirts of a synthetic non-spreading lubricant aerosol spray while rotating the focussing ring vigorously so it can get into the green goo. Less Is Better! You don't need very much, believe me. 24 hours later, it should still be keeping things turning nicely. If not, do it again - but don't be tempted to go overboard with the lube, as the last thing you want is to get too much in there and some to graduate onto the lens surfaces or shutter iris.</p>

<p>OK, so this is not the factory-approved method for getting recalcitrant AGFAs up and running again, but in my experience, it gets maybe 90% of them working just fine again - without having to grapple with a single screwdriver. My AGFA collection can be seen here, by the way:<br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/32113303@N07/sets/72157612048279403/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/32113303@N07/sets/72157612048279403/</a></p>

<p>PETE IN A WARMING PERTH</p>

<p>You're right B.E., I just looked and my Solinar 3.5 and it is definitely different from my Apotar. The Apotar has the focus stop on the outside, not so the Solinar, as you noted. You might try taking the 3 screws off from the front anyway. My guess is that under that collar is a hidden focus stop. Once you figure out how to get past the focus stop (they usually unscrew), then slowly turn the lens until it comes off, marking the exact place it lets go of the threads. Then completely remove the green crap, etc. and reassemble w/ a TINY bit of lube on the threads. You'll have to get all of the green stuff out too. I tried just cleaning the threads on the lens glass part w/o really flushing off the internal threads and the lens focus was too stiff. Got to get it all out.</p>

<p>You are right, the focus stop is under the focus ring. The focus ring has to be lifted, it has a groove on its rear side which is interrupted by a wall which runs against the focus stop pin on the lens mount. Sometimes it is sufficient to lift the focus ring a bit.<br>

Once you lift the focus ring (and marked its position relative to the front lens element mount), you can freely unscrew the front lens element. The thread is a multi-turn thread, i.e. it can be assembled in a number of positions. Also, there is little gap between the two parts and they are somewhat hard to get together again. If you want to avoid re-adjusting the lens, you have to:<br>

1. mark the position of the focus ring relative to the front lens element mount (lift the focus ring at the close-up position)<br>

2. mark the position of the front lens element mount relative to the outer part of the focussing thread<br>

3. make a note about the number of turns it takes until the front lens comes off<br>

4. mark the position of the front lens relative to the outer part of the thread where it comes off<br>

5. avoid confusing the marks you left.<br>

The mount of the second lens element is screwed into the shutter collar, usually gripping it strong is sufficient to loosen it. DO NOT use pliers to loosen it, the slightest deformation will make it impossible to re-assemble the front lens element.<br>

Cover both parts with household alcohol and leave them overnight. The next day the old grease will be gone almost completely, any residues can be wiped off easily now.<br>

For re-assembly, first screw in the seond lens element and tighten it manually.<br>

Then set the front lens at the "comes-off" position and try to screw it in again. It will take several attempts. Do not forget to apply a thin layer of synthetic grease or silicone grease to the threads.<br>

Screw in the front lens as many turns as it took to come off. Now put the focus ring against the mark you left, it should run against the close-up stop now.<br>

If you do not manage to put everything together as it was, there are instructions how to re-adjust a lens on Rick's site, the title is "bring infinity to your living room" or similar. For a quick-and-dirty adjustment you can also use the ground glass method.</p>

<p> </p>