Slide film beginner: Tips?

Hey all,

 

Until now, I've always shot colour negatives (or digital), but I want to try slide film

for a change. Partly because I've seen what you can do with Velvia if you're good,

and want to use that on my next holiday, and partly because I want to try

something new and see if it offers me more than negatives. (aren't we here to live

and learn?)

 

However, reading up on things, some people make shooting slides seem like very

hard. Although I usually take everything I read online with a grain of salt, I'd like to

know if there's any common pitfalls I should worry about.

 

Stuff I've come across:

 

- Needing blue-filters for long exposures.

 

- Velvia 50 actually bein Velvia `40' -> does this apply to Velvia 100 as well?

 

- The smaller exposure allowance compared to negative film -> this seems clear,

but how best to deal with it?

 

- Shadows going to black quickly -> is this good or bad, and can/should you do

anything about it?

 

 

I'll be trying out with both Velvia and Sensia (100 ISO for both), to see if i can

actually see any difference.

 

I know this is a pretty open question, but I'm curious how other people think about

it.

 

My main target is shooting landscapes, camera will be an EOS 30. Slides will be

scanned on a Nikon Coolscan V ED

 

Thanks in advance for any hints/tips/experiences!

 

Bernard

Use a light meter. It is better to error on the side of underexposure than

overexposure if in doubt.

 

Shadows? No.

 

Blue filters? If you are unhappy with the color and tone of your chrome, then perhaps

use a filter if you find you need to - test first. Plus, you will be scanning the chrome

and can correct, adjust to taste in post.

 

If you put Sensia next to Velvia you won't have to look hard to find a difference, it

will be very evident. I shot Velvia at 25. Do take into account reciprocity failure with

long exposures.

 

The chromes will generally scan more "true" than a negative and in my opinion will

be nicer out of the box color wise than a negative. When evaluating, take into

account that you are viewing a different medium - transmissive vs reflective.

 

You will see less grain in your images.

If you are using it in ordinary daylight then just meter it as normal (or set the camera) for ISO 50.<BR><BR>

Some people do rate it at 40 which means it gets a little bit more exposure but until you get fully aquainted with it, don't worry about it.<BR><BR>

Slide film is the opposite of negative film. With negative you work out your exposure to suit the shadows and the response of the film is such that the highlights will usually sort themselves out. With slide film it is possible to over-expose and get blown out highlights.<br><BR>

With negative film you or your lab can correct any errors of exposure and usually get a good print. Slides are intended to be the final article (for projecting) and as such you don't have the option of correcting during printing - except now they can also be scanned (which is what you say you are going to do).<BR><BR>

No matter how good your scanner is though, you will not be able to replace any highlight detail which has been lost so if in doubt under rather than over expose.

I shoot Velvia 50 at 50. For many subjects I like shadows going to black. Contrast is subjective. Since you are starting out use the first roll and bracket your exposures. You'll be able to compare the differences yourself. When in doubt I underexpose by 1/3 to 1/2 stop. Get a small light table and loupe (or hold a 50mm lens backwards) to view your slides. Nothing beats looking at slides on a light table.

I get amazing results shooting Velvia 50 at ISO 32, and metering the shadows. However, if there are more than 2 stops between the highest and lowest metered

point of the shot (i.e. 1/60 in the shadow and 1/250 in the sky), I'll shoot the slowest, and a midpoint between the lowest and highest (1/60 and 1/125 for example).

<br><br>

As for the erring to over/under exposure, keep in mind the scene when you're shooting before making that decision. There are no hard and fast rules here; it's a

matter of preference. If you've got a nice blue sky metering at 1/250, and trees metering at 1/30, you're essentially going to lose detail in one of them, so you'll have

to decide which part of the scene is most important, and over/underexpose accordingly. <b>If the photo is important, <big>take several shots</big>, then you can

decide on the light table what the best exposure is! </b>I know it sounds a little wasteful, but I think it's worth taking 4 or 5 shots to be sure one of them will be right.

<br><br>

I shoot Velvia 100 in the same fashion (usually when I'm losing my light and am without tripod), though at it's rated ISO. Shooting it at a 125 ISO (underexposing)

will give you a little more contrast, though it could be at the expense of some detail, so grain of salt there. A quick side-note; never use either Velvia for shooting

people; it makes them look like they've just come from Venus! Use Provia instead.

<br><br>

Personally, I think Sensia is garbage, and it's way overpriced to boot. The color is nice, I grant you, but the grain and clarity I got from scanning it was extremely disappointing. Again, I would recommend Provia here.

<br><br>

Finally, check all of this out with your camera and shooting technique, and most importantly, <b>take notes about what you're doing</b>, and shoot your first few

rolls near home where you can try the same scene again easily if you don't get the results you want. Eventually you'll get to where you see a shot and know exactly

what to do.

<br><br>

Another little side note, if you really dig slides, and are feeling "spendy," consider getting into medium format. You'll wonder what you were ever doing with 35mm!

<br><br>

Good luck! Let me know how it goes!

If you are losing shadow detail at the scanning stage, then you can try using HDR software. Take one slide, scan it say 3 times, perhaps 1 stop under, normal and one stop over exposed. Then use HDR software to bring out the shadow detail. I have a shot somewhere taken of the outside of a building in bright sunlight on provia. The normal scan showed no detail inside the windows or on a balcony, just black. Using the above method I was able to pick out the interior through the windows and the detail behind the covered balcony where it was shaded. It certainly seems to work with slides (provia) but I have not tried it with negative film.

 

I do not worry about colour casts, simply remove them in PS. Provia seems to go blue, velvia magenta and astia almost perfect.

 

 

I also think that talk of slides being difficult is exagerated. When my grandad gave me my first camera, a Kodak instamatic in the late 60's I used slide film purely because he did. At the age of 9 I didn't even know about negative film. I certainly knew nothing about exposure and had no complaints.

EOS 30, Landscapes, and Velvia: Put in that roll, go out, and start shooting. You have a very good meter on your camera (evaluative meter, not center weighted). Even with a simple 2 zone meter, my Stylus Epic handles and shoots slide with no problems. People build up slides like they are very difficult to shoot, and scare people away. Nonsense, they are easy to shoot with modern cameras that. In the days of "sunny 16" meterless cameras, ya, i can see they were difficult then. But not now.

For your firts roll, shoot elvia at 50, and see if you like it. I do. If not, try 40 on your next roll. Use basic photographic sense, and you will be fine. (My first foray with Velvia, when I was new to photography and didnt know anything, still turned out great. I was wowed by the colors and detail. But I did have a few shots where I, not knowing better, included large (30%+ of image frame) dark shadow areas in the foreground, that turned out pitch black on the slides. I didnt know then to avoid large areas of high contrast in my slides. But still, the other 33 frames turned out great.

Go have some fun, I think you will LOVE slides, they are incredible!

And pick up a used slide projector. They are a dime a dozen now on the Bay or Craigslist. You will be blown away when you see your slides on the bigscreen (or wall). Only then can you really appreciate the saturation, detail, and beauty of a slide. It is an experience not to miss.

Dont just take my word for it either:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/ishootfilm/discuss/72157605052785016/

IMHO, the best way to view slides is with a hand held viewer (no lamps, bulbs, batteries, cords, computers, etc, required) in daylight. Usually available on EBay, I'm not sure if anyone is making new ones now. The image will appear to be about the same as looking at a 20' x 30" poster at a distance of 40" surroundedby a dark frame. No distractions.

POLARIZING FILTER! The MOST & ONLY thingyou'll need. Get one that's been coated and take IT out for practise - see what it'l do...

Take several test shots. I have always had good luck with slides though I VERY RARELY shoot Fuji. Slides are great because what you get for results you know is your work. It cannont be fixed in processing.

Bracket with 1/2 or 1/3 stops. Full stop over or under and you'll be wasting 2/3 or your roll. Bracket more if the lighting is tricky enough to fool the camera meter. Don't use filters unless you need to correct the light or make a special effect and always take the same image without a filter. Good luck and enjoy your chrome experience!

" I'll be trying out with both Velvia and Sensia (100 ISO for both), to see if i can actually see any difference."

 

You will see the huge difference. In some cases yo'll be shocked. Here are 4 shots: 2 Sensia and 2 RVP100. I didn't indicate which is which with purpose. I guess most of you can get it yourself. I will follow the thread if you need my answer. The images scanned with Coolscan V in default mode. No post processing applied.

 

I shoot the RVP100 at ISO100 setting.

The Sensia is nice general purpose film delivering low contrast and forgiveness for the exposure mistake. To use it for landscapes I guess it's a matter of personal taste. If you want your landscape to be less saturated and more neutral in color I suggest you should try the Velvia 100F. I use all 3 Velvias. They're all different, they're all beautiful!

To echo a few of the earlier comments, there's no great mystery to slide film. Yes, it's less forgiving of exposure errors, but you should get the hang of it with just a few practice rolls. The key will be knowing your camera and how it meters various lighting situations. Starting with 100 ASA film is a wise choice - use the 'Sunny 16' rule to validate your camera's settings and bracket as needed.

 

If your budget allows, I would recommend trying a few rolls of Provia 100 in addition to the Velvia and Sensia - it's great stuff.

 

Have fun.

First of all, thanks for all the responses.

 

@TM: I'm currently looking at GND filters for those 'bright sky dark horizon' pictures, but haven't decided on what to get yet.

 

@Randall, would a slide projector offer significantly more than a beamer with scanned images?

 

@D F: I just got a CP with my 17-40, will certainly be used :-)

 

@Roman: My guess: Sensia, Velvia, Velvia, Sensia? Last two look as if the light changed significantly between the shots though. Is that really just the film?

as for Velvia 100F, my store accidentally send me 100F instead of 100 for my first batch, so I'll be trying that out first.

 

@Jim: I was made to believe that Sensia 100 is very close to Provia 100, only cheaper. From your post I understand that was wrong?

 

@everyone else (can't reply to everyone in person): Thank you for the tips, I'll take them with me in my experiments!

 

Now, to get out of this city for some pictures...

<i> @Jim: I was made to believe that Sensia 100 is very close to Provia 100, only cheaper. From your post I understand that was wrong? </i> <br>

<br>

Sensia 100 seems like a nice film, but for my use (advanced amateur shooting railroads and other transportation subjects) I like Provia 100 better. In my limited experience with Sensia 100, I have found it to be a decently sharp film with a slight warmish color cast. Provia is tack sharp and I like its color reproduction - it's slightly saturated but not overly so like Velvia. I was a long-time Kodachrome user and I resisted making a wholesale change from that film because so many E-6 films seemed bland by comparison. Provia is the only slide I've found with sharpness that is truly comparable to K-64. <br>

<br>

As for cost, I find there is little difference between the two. I order my slide film via mail-order from Adorama and B&H - at present, Adorama has Sensia 100 for $4.49 per 36-exp. roll and Provia 100 for $4.89. <br>

Bernard,

 

You're absolutely right identifying films. But it's only 5-6min between shots 4 and 3. There're no significant light changes (if any) and it was at least 1 hr before sunset. Yes, it is really just the film. And as I mentioned before the difference in some cases might be shocking.

 

Re: Sensia vs Provia. My opinion they are close but not quite. Seems to me that the Sensia is a warmer version of Provia. But I agree with Jim that the Provia is slightly sharper and a bit less grainy.

 

Re: GND filters. All 4 images posted here were taken with the 0.6 (2 stop) soft edge GND. For me it is a most common used filter. Also very often I use the 0.9 (3 stop) hard edge. I prefer Lee or Singh-Ray brand.

 

I guess you've got enough information to start. Have a nice shooting!

I've just logged on to this forum and it's absolutely great so many people are still

fans of slide film or wanting to give it a go.

 

Slides have brilliant saturation and are incredibly sharp -- as I read somewhere like

tiny translucent jewels of color. There's still nothing that beats a projected slide for

clarity and sparkle. Digital projectors lag woefully behind.

 

My advice: Just experiment and try what you like. Kodak E100G and E100GX are

excellent all round films with good color saturation; Fuji Astia 100F is very neutral

and has amazing fine grain and is definitely worth trying (Sensia is the amateur

version); Fuji Velvia and Kodak Elite Chrome Extra Colour are supersaturated films

(too much so for me, though they are very popular), and Fujchrome 400 is supposed

to be a superior higher-speed film though I haven't tried it. Fuji Provia 100 is very

fine grain, but yes, I have found shadows can go blueish. I've also used lots of Agfa

RSX (very neutral), but I don't think it's made any longer.

 

I'd choose pro film over amateur film because it's more consistent.

 

Yes, exposure is important, but I think this point is really over-exaggerated. Color

negative films may have more latitude but this may just make a bad exposure barely

acceptable; it won't turn a badly exposed shot into a good one.

 

There are a few landscapes on my site: most shot with Kodak, some with Fuji Astia

(most people say they prefer this for portraits.) And here's another important point: a

lot depends on light conditions. Color temperature varies considerably from location

location. If you have soft muted light, like England, a punchier film like Velvia may

be a good idea. I live in New Zealand where the air is ultra clear and colors super

bright, so I prefer a more neutral film. E100G seems to work well for landscapes.

 

Good luck, and have fun!

 

David

www.davidkillick.co.nz