Sinar F, Cambo SC or Omega 45E

<p>Hi I asked a question before and got a huge number of responses. I researched many of the cameras and realized that for what I want to do (architecture (and maybe macro but thats not a real consideration) a monorail camera is probably going to be the best.<br>

Through a price vs. quality comparison (that I have done myself, so it may not be so accurate) i have determined that the three cameras listed abouve would be good choices. Of course, the Sinar is much, much more expensive.<br>

At this moment I am inclined to get the Omega since I have found one with a lens, board and shutter. Thus I would save a couple hundred bucks and a lot of online research and shopping getting those together.<br>

My question really is...<br>

what is the weight differences between these three cameras. Im going to guess that the SInar is the lightest, but how do the other two compare? Also how do the quality of builds compare?<br>

BTW, the lens offered with the Omega that i found is a Rodenstock Geronar 210mm f6.8. Is it any good? How close will it focus. </p>

<p>Thanks for all of the help in advance.</p>

<p>I have a 45F I don't use at all since getting my Sinar F and P. The F folds up quite compactly, and is my preferred outdoors camera. Is this camera available locally? Shipping a Toyo 45E or F is a tricky proposition, I've bought several, and more than half have arrived broken. The tilt mechanism is durable enough for use, but doen't always survive poorly packed shipping methods.</p>

<p>I would steer away from the 45E unless you know absolutely you will never, ever want to use a bag bellows. The only reason I still have my Toyo/Omega is that I have an RB67 Lensboard and revolving back I made for it that gives me a 6x7 view camera using my RB lenses and backs.</p>

<p>Thanks so much.</p>

<p>A bag bellows was what I was going to find the minute i chose. I guess I will cross off the 45E. Looks like the Sinar will be where its at.</p>

<p>The Geronar lens isn't bad quality, but it doesn't have a lot of covering power, making it a potentially bad choice for architectural photography. The Cambo would also take a bag bellows.</p>

<p>You have not really researched features. For instance the Sinar has a 12" rail. That is not much extension, other monorails come with longer rails. For instance, the Kardan SC JBL type monorail from Linhof had an 18" rail. It had 75° of front and rear optical tilt and 360° of front and rear swing. It also had 3.3" of front and rear rise that can be increased to 6.6" and 5" of front and rear shift and the camera is all metal with brass on aluminum movements and the focusing is a geared track over the entire length of the 18" rail. And there is no grease used as a lubricant so there is no grease to get contaminated by dust, dirt, etc. as brass on aluminum is self-lubricating. Back is Graflock and all metal and the bellows is interchangeable.<br>

Now that means that there is no view camera job that the JBL type camera can not do as movements are limited only by the bellows. And both a normal and a WA bellows is available. It also uses either flat or recessed boards and the shortest lens that it can handle is a 35mm focal length. <br>

Now compare construction, movements and accessories and then equip all of the cameras the same way to see where the best value lies.<br>

This is a camera that has been out of production for many years but later versions of it, Kardan E, M, re, etc have the same features and the same specification and use the same accessories. And each movement has its' own, individual locking mechanism!</p>

<p>Now realistically Bob, how much of the 75 degrees of tilt will a person ever use in a typical setting? (this is likely a hobbyist, not a working pro) The F also has 360 degrees of swing freedom, though why one needs it is beyond me frankly. The Sinar rail, as you know Bob, is expandable by 6, 12, 18 or 30 inches to either (or both!) ends, hence the rail length issue is a red herring as well. The grease issue in my opinion is as well, as there are high quality dry lubricants available making the need to apply grease or vaseline irrelevent (spend 10 mins in a good bicycle shop and you'll be amazed).</p>

<p>To me, the biggest issue was one of pricing and availability, the Sinar parts are readily available, (relatively) inexpensive, and prevalent around the world. Nearly every part ever made for the Sinar System is available used, and one can start with an F and grow into a P or P2 system while still having the full usefulness of your earlier equipment.</p>

<p>As far as the lens Andrew, you'd be far better served by a plasmat design, either a Symmar (plain, -S or -S MC) or a Sironar are the two most prevalent models available. If you're just starting out and don't want to spend a fortune, I'd suggest a Symmar or Symmar-S as they are available dirt cheap used. Budget $60 or $70 for a cleaning by Flutot's and you'll be good to go.</p>

<p>I can ignore the elephant in the room to a point, but.....I guess hawking ones wares is part of being a distributor. Any semblence of impartiality on your part, and subsequent shading of the truth, on the other hand, is sorely lacking. Partly due to your competitor bashing on this forum, as well as other venues through the years, has caused me to exclude any products that your company represents from purchase by my studio as well as another that I have a part ownership in, and I advise anybody I know to steer clear of the same. While I respect your position in the industry Bob, there are many ways to differentiate your products, and I personally find the bashing of other's productss to elevate your own a true indicator of a person's character.</p>

<p>erie</p>

<p>No it isn't a red herring. It is a cost that has to be added (12" extension rail) if one wants the same extension as most other cameras. As for 75° of tilt, that means that you can use all of the tilt that a lens and the bellows will allow, you aren't limited by lack of tilt amount. As for used availability, the SC uses the same front and rear accessories as the Kardan B system. The B predates the F by several years and those accessories date back to 1968 and are also available world wide.</p>

<p>As for hawking wares, I was very careful to describe a camera that is only available used and has not been in production since the 1980s. Buying one or not buying one will not impact and Linhof distributor worldwide or Linhof themselves. Only buying new, current equipment would benefit any Linhof distributor or the factory. Used Linhof cameras are actually Linhof's competition. The only one who would benefit would be the buyer and the seller.</p>

<p>As for bashing, I did not "bash" Sinar, Cambo or Omega/Toyo. I simply pointed out that the comparison between unequally equipped cameras was not a valid comparison and that there are other used choices.</p>

<p>If I was in a plugging mode I would have also pointed out that a Sironar N or later would be a much better choice then a Geronar. So would the equivalent Nikon or Fuji lens as well. Not just old Schneiders.</p>

<p>I bought the Sinar, and Bob, it came with a free 12" rail.Which is better because it allows for portability.<br>

Thanks much to Erie for the help. What are these dry lubes you mention. Should I replace whatever is present nce I recieve the camera?</p>