Sigma ef-500 DG Super as Master and 430EX as slave?

Hi,

Okay, so I searched the Forum, and found several different answers, I would like

to clarify some things.

First, I'm have a Rebel XT, 430EX, and a Wein Digital Slave Hotshoe. I find I

can use the pop-up flash to trigger the 430EX using the Wein Hotshoe. So, I

would like to add another flash to act as a Master. I would like to eliminate

the use of the Wien Slave, becuase it also fires when other people are shooting

using a Digital P&S, though it seems to work okay, when people use film cameras,

(probably the pre-flash/digital thing).

Here are my questions:

1) Can I use a Sigma 500 DG Super on the camera, set to master, and set the

430EX to slave, will this fire/expose "relatively", correctly? (search on

forums, suggests the answer seems to be, Yes). Am I missing something?

2)Will the Sigma & Canon be using Ettl-2? or just regular TTL? I read the Sigma

Compatibility Table and it says: "*3:Please set your Master Flash unit to TTL

autoflash (E-TTL, E-TTL II autoflash cannot be used) or Manual flash mode." What

exactly is that referring to? Can I use FEC on the camera to adjust both units,

or do I have to change both of them manually?

I would like to not mess too much with Manual output/exposure setting, for the

sake of time. Preferably, I would just put the camera in Av, Tv, or P modes and

fire away.

3) From what I understand this set-up is not using radio signal, but it's not

using optical, since the 430EX does not have an optical slave. Therefore, I'm

assuming this uses IR signals, will this eliminate the problem of other Digital

P&S, firing off the slave?

4) The other (more expensive) option is to get a 580EX, but if I understood

correctly, it is doing the same thing the Sigma would do, IR singals, right?

Would the 550EX do the same thing as the 580EX?

5) Can a Canon ST-E2 be used to fire both the Sigma 500 DG and the Canon 430EX,

if they are both set to slave modes? Likewise, from what I read, the Sigma has

an option to disable the flash light (main light), but still act as a Master,

correct? So, I can only fire the slaved 430EX, and not the Sigma mounted on the

camera?

Basically, I realize the "best" set-up is to have the Canon 580EX or (550EX?) as

the Master and set the 430EX to slave, but if the Sigma 500 DG Super, can do

what I want for cheaper, I would like to go with that.

Any other suggestions I haven't thought of? Basically, I like the Wein Slave,

but hate the fact other people with a Digital P&S can make it fire. I'm hoping

the Sigma/Canon setup will eliminate this problem, am I correct?

Thanks,

Amol

1) Yes according to Sigma. Some users have reported inconsistent exposures using the Sigma flashes wirelessly. I haven't tried so YMMV.

2) They will use E-TTL II. The comment about setting the main flash to TTL refers to using the Sigma flash as a regular optical slave. For DSLRs that should be altered to read "set the master to manual" since none of Canon's DSLRs support TTL flash.

3) It is visible light optical in this case though the sensor on the 430EX is IR sensitive. The communication flashes are emitted by the main flash tube on the master flash. The pulses are coded and the slave will not be set off by other peoples flashes.

4) See above. You can cover the main flash with an IR filter to get IR communication but then you cannot use the master flash to flash.

5) Yes to the ST-E2. Yes to firing only the slave though the main flash will contribute a very small amount to the exposure since the last communication pulse occurs while the shutter is open. See above for how to eliminate this (IR filter the main flash).

It seems the 550EX will work as a Master to 430EX.

I did a search on the Internet, it seems a used 550EX is going for a little more ($80 +/-) than the Sigma 500 DG Super.

So, would the 550EX be a better choice over the Sigma 500 DG Super? Why or why not?

1) Yes, it will work. The Sigma EF-500 Super that I had produced good exposures with or without the 550EX. In my case, either one worked fine as a master to the other, but the Canon Speedlite was easier to set up, so I generally used it as the master. Others reported serious exposure errors with this combination, but mine was fine.

2) It will be E-TTL or E-TTL II, depending on the camera you use it with. As far as that goes, it will operate in TTL mode if you use it with some older non-E-TTL capable cameras. But I would ignore the details of the Sigma user guide. It is a piece of trash. FEC works fine from the camera, but you can set it on the flash as well.

Using Av, Tv or P mode on the camera is a bad idea. Use the camera in manual mode. It's more consistent, and will not give you unwanted aperture or shutter selections. Once you get the hang of it, M mode is easy. If you use Av or Tv modes your flash will act as fill, and in P mode the exposure will revert to 1/60 and f/4 most of the time, and that is very often not what you want.

3) It uses "near IR" or regular white light, depending on what the master is doing. Basically this means that it can be an optical system with a deep red filter added to the transmitter, but will also work without the red filter via the main flash head. However, other people's flashes will not interfere because the system requires a set of coded pulses to trigger, and unless they are using a Canon Speedlite in master mode, the wireless system will ignore it. There are 4 chanels in the system, so you can work around others using wireless E-TTL too.

4) The Sigma Super will do the same things that the 580EX will do as far as acting as a master, but it will not do them as easily. The Sigma uses some arcane menu controls to do what the Canon flashes do with a couple extra buttons, and therefore are far easier to use. The 580EX is also a far better flash in other ways. The 550EX is somewhere in between, IMO.

5) The ST-E2 will also control the Sigma, as will as 580EX/550EX acting in master mode. I don't remember if the Sigma's flash can be disabled while still acting as a master. It has none of the custom functions of the Canon units though.

6) Yes, it will eliminate this problem.

Yes, the 550EX is a better flash than the Sigma. It is more powerful, easier to operate, and built far better. You can feel the difference just by picking them up, but I have also read of numerous problems with the Sigma flash, and many fewer with the Canon unit -- in spite of the fact that there are far more 550EX's out there. My own Sigma failed during it's warranty period. However, Sigma fixed it well, and they did it fast.

I am far from a Sigma basher, but even used the 550EX is a better unit.

I'd agree that I'd pick a Canon Speedlite over a Sigma if the price wasn't too different. If it was, I'd probably just save up...

I have a 550EX which has worked flawlessly. I can certainly recommend it.

Jim wrote<P>

<blockquote>

2) It will be E-TTL or E-TTL II, depending on the camera you use it with. As far as that goes, it will operate in TTL mode if you use it with some older non-E-TTL capable cameras.

</blockquote><P>

I just want to clarify that while both the Sigma and the Canon flashes will function in TTL mode when on an older film camera (and probably can be set to function in TTL mode even on film cameras that support E-TTL) they cannot be used wirelessly in TTL mode. Wireless flash functions only in E-TTL mode.

Hey,

Thanks to everyone who responded, I know most of the responders are very knowledgeable/veterans in this stuff.

So, I decided that I'm going to stick with Canon; either going to find a used 550EX, or save up more (sell some older gear), and buy a used or new 580EX. Either way, I'll skip the Sigma.

Thanks again,

Amol

To reinforce what others have said. . .

. . .all of these flashes will work with TTL/ETTL/ETTL-II. The flash exposure is actually controlled by the camera. . .based upon what it sees.

. . .In a multiflash setup, the 550EX works fine. It fires command pulses using the main flash tube at minimum power.The ST-E2 has more limited functionality, and simply has a low power flash tube with an IR filter. (by limited, it cannot control a "C" group and you cannot control exposure compensation from this unit).

One main advantage of the ST-E2 is that it makes the camera lighter and easier to handle.

One disadvantage of the ST-E2 is now (presumably) BOTH flash units are off camera. Exposure and shadow control become significantly more complex.

Multiflash always seems to require significant trial and error to get the right results. Perfectly fine for studio work, but quite challenging for impromptu work. But the results are very, very worth it.

Yeah, I think I'm going to skip the ST-E2 for the moment, it cost a lot, and doesn't seem like it would be extremely useful, for what I want. I think, I'll try to find a used 580 or 550 EX.

Jim Strutz:

I admit, I'm still pretty new at the flash stuff, (I personally prefer outdoor/natural lighting). I tried setting it Manual setting for a couple test shots with the 430EX, they came out okay. But when I tried it at a wedding (I was a backup photographer), due to action/movement, and lighting conditions, I got some blurred shots, or over/underexposed shots, so I reverted to Tv and P mode, (bouncing it off the ceiling). I know, I need to work on it... learn/read more, and do more test "action/real world" shots. Thanks for the advice.

Thanks everyone,

Amol

Hey, I thought of one more question, semi-related to this:

I plan on buying a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 in the future. I believe this lens does not use the Ettl-2 flash system, just uses regular Ettl. So, it makes more sense to spend less money, and buy a 550EX, instead of the 580EX, correct? I mean other then White Balance, and better battery life, and the Ettl-2 (which will not work with the Tamron), is there a strong reason to buy a 580EX over the 550EX. I just don't see the point in buying/spending more money on a flash with features (ettl-2) that won't work with the lens (Tammy). Does Ettl2 work on the Canon 28-105 3.5-4.5 USM II, or Canon 50 f1.8? (Those are the only Canon lenses I own.)

Thanks,

Amol

Both the 550EX and 580EX will meter in E-TTL II, as will any EX series flash, and the Sigma EF-500 Super as well. It's a function of the camera body's flash metering, not the flash.

The 580EX supposedly provides an insignificant white balance adjustment, but no one seems to be able to tell exactly what. The 580EX also recycles faster than the 550EX when using internal AA batteries, but I've not seen any claims that that it has better battery life though.

Also, the Tamron lens will not provide the camera body information about focus distance, but it will still work with E-TTL II. The distance info is only provided as an additional factor. Most of E-TTL II's computations are done without it. I know the 50mm lens does not provide distance info, but I'm not sure about the 28-105 f/3.5-4.5. Either way, it rarely makes much difference.

Jim,

Sorry, by "better battery life", I had meant the recycle times, not lasting longer. Also, I had thought the main advantage of ETTL II over regular ETTL was the "distance info" from the lens. From reading the threads here, it sounded like that was actually the major improvement of ETTL II, over ETTL.

Do you personally use a 550EX or the 580EX?

Thanks,

Amol

I use a 550EX and a 430EX. Both are E-TTL on my 10D, and E-TTL II on my 20D. I much prefer E-TTL II, as it is far more consistent and predictable.

I have a Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 (no distance info), and a Canon 17-55 f/2.8 (with distance info), and I have experimented with the distance info. In extreme situations (very white scenes, or very black scenes) it does make some difference, just not much of a difference. It's not the biggest factor in E-TTL's improvement. That has been talked about quite a bit on this forum.

The 580EX is a better flash than the 550EX for its somewhat faster recycles (although the new 580EX II is even better), superior user interface (control dial), and easier to flip & spin (one button head release). All of which are very practical improvements. It's other advantages are pretty minor, IMO.