Sigma camera bodies

Greetings, new to this forum.

I've notice a lack of Sigma material and conversations on this site and would like to ask some semi experienced questions concerning the Sigma line of cameras to anyone who has used them.

Specifically right now the Sigma sd Quattro, a 2017 model with the fovean sensor. This camera is not fast in any way to todays models, but the detail in strong light is over the top. And that is my struggle.

Using the 100-400 hsm art to shoot birds with a tripod at fairly close range is proving difficult as far as proper exposure. I do know that the aperture is thin, and I lose 2 stops just mounting the lens.

 

The kit will properly expose at 's' or 'a' priority settings, but never use a fast enough shutter. At 's' priority, even the slightest shade will underexpose the shot. In 'a', the shutter is always too slow.

 

When I go to 'p' it is also a great exposure, and almost stops the action, but just not enough. So, knowing that the shot seems to be pulled off in auto modes, I expected to go manual, yet the camera stops me from making fast shutter settings.

 

Has anyone been successful with the quattro sd in manual mode stopping action like birds and animals. And what were the settings? I've only had the sigma a few months if that and still learning about it's quirks.

 

Late 2019 Sigma made some big changes in executives at the top and have been coming on very strong. Every update since Jan 2020 has made big improvements to almost everything. I have strong hopes that sigma can address the poor ISO utilization and believe they can. If all other brands can do 15000 iso with almost no noise, why can't sigma do 800 without noise?

 

Some say it's the fovean, but I don't believe that. I don't want to believe that.

 

2020 may be the year for Sigma cameras. All I can find on the internet is the sigma lenses being used on other cameras, but not the sigma body.

 

Yes, the SD is not a sports camera. At this time it excels as a still camera for macro, portraits and any sloooowwww stuff you want to shoot that has good light. This is why I bought sigma.

 

I think it would be nice if there was a Sigma camera thread of it's own. The lenses are all over the internet.

And no, I'm not associated with Sigma at all, but I love the fovean sensor concept and believe it's still the future. The close up subjects I've shot so far are amazing and all without a lick of photoshop. No correction in camera either.

 

Also, if anyone can point me to the threads about file handling and maintaining quality in submitting digitals, that would be greatly appreciated. I've looked but haven't really found anything on that subject.

 

Stay safe everyone.

Edited September 6, 2020 by sigmaalex920

but I love the fovean sensor concept...

I thought that too when it was first announced many years ago.

...and believe it's still the future.

I think there's been time enough now to show that it's not.

 

Looking at 1600 ISO comparisons on Imaging Resource's 'Camera Comparometer', something like a 24mp Sony a6300 simply blows away Sigma's (supposedly 19mp) DP2 Quattro.

 

Even at 100 ISO the a6300 appears to have the edge in colour clarity.

 

So I think Sigma have had their chances with the Foveon concept, and basically thrown them away.

 

Time to move on?

I thought that too when it was first announced many years ago.

 

I think there's been time enough now to show that it's not.

 

Looking at 1600 ISO comparisons on Imaging Resource's 'Camera Comparometer', something like a 24mp Sony a6300 simply blows away Sigma's (supposedly 19mp) DP2 Quattro.

 

Even at 100 ISO the a6300 appears to have the edge in colour clarity.

 

So I think Sigma have had their chances with the Foveon concept, and basically thrown them away.

 

Time to move on?

Thanks. Not ready yet. But I felt that fovean selling off to sigma may not have been the smartest thing as well. But the fovean concept is a paradigm shift like OLED is to lcd. People are still getting knowledgeable to that. The fovean concept is still ahead of it's time, but it's coming. Computer chips and programming are where it's at and the fact that camera bodies are capable of +2000 iso with almost no noise tells me it's in the software and algorithms yet to be written.

 

Also, the higher the MB does not necessarily mean higher quality detail.

 

But I'm still waiting for someone out there that actually uses a sigma with their own sigma long lens to give experiences with sigma.

 

Thanks for the input however.

Also, the higher the MB does not necessarily mean higher quality detail.

It entirely does.

This is from a Sony a7r4, taken 'straight' at 60 megapixels.

The res chart is meant to be shot at 1/50th scale, but the above is shot at 1/100th and the lppmm figures need to be doubled.

 

The a7R4 also has a pixel shift mode that effectively quadruples its pixel number to 240 mp and with co-sited RGB sampling.

This is the result with the same chart at the same distance:

An amazing 200 lppmm are clearly resolved.

 

The inset of the full frame gives some idea of how incredibly tiny the resolution lines are. Totally invisible to the naked eye.

 

So, yeah, megapixel numbers do mean better resolution. However, the a7R4 wouldn't be my first choice for birding, since its high ISO performance isn't as good as other cameras with lower resolution. It can still do 3200 ISO without breaking too much of a sweat though.

But I felt that fovean selling off to sigma may not have been the smartest thing as well.

I have to entirely agree with that.

Thank you for that information. What lens was that shot with?

 

My questions are about the sigma SD body and their own long lens and getting to use a fast shutter for birding, mostly not in flight.

The SD is a slooooww camera right now as far as iso ability and range. But no where does Sigma actually advertise the body is a sport camera. The FP is getting close. I'm always amazed at sigma glass.

 

But I'm hoping someone has figured out how to pull off 500+ shutter speeds with a sigma SD and longer lenses. If I were to invest again with another body, I would get the lens adapter for the sigmas.

But I don't want to invest again. And I don't want to be wrong about my sigma choice as well. I KNOW what it can produce in good lighting, I'm sure it could rival your examples. But I'm trying to push the envelopes without a lot of experience with Sigma bodies.

 

I'm likely bashing my head against a wall, but I'm looking for some people that have used this setup for first hand knowledge of what can and can't be done.

 

Stay safe.

This thread has been out for a few days, and unfortunately there may not be any Sigma Fovean / long lens users on Photo Net currently who can directly answer your question or have seen this posting. It is unclear to me why in M mode you cannot set the shutter speed to what you want, say 1/1000, along with the aperture and ISO needed to obtain an acceptable exposure? While it may require an ISO that renders noise that you may not find acceptable, nevertheless, you should be able to find that setting. In S or A priority mode, as long as you are willing to ratchet up the ISO (or allow the auto ISO feature to reach such ISO level), increasing the ISO should allow you to obtain the desired shutter speed. With respect to loss of shadow detail, as per DPReview, the exposure latitude of that sensor is quite limited when compared with current CMOS technology, and generally, exposure latitude gets more limited at higher ISO levels.

This thread has been out for a few days, and unfortunately there may not be any Sigma Fovean / long lens users on Photo Net currently who can directly answer your question or have seen this posting. It is unclear to me why in M mode you cannot set the shutter speed to what you want, say 1/1000, along with the aperture and ISO needed to obtain an acceptable exposure? While it may require an ISO that renders noise that you may not find acceptable, nevertheless, you should be able to find that setting. In S or A priority mode, as long as you are willing to ratchet up the ISO (or allow the auto ISO feature to reach such ISO level), increasing the ISO should allow you to obtain the desired shutter speed. With respect to loss of shadow detail, as per DPReview, the exposure latitude of that sensor is quite limited when compared with current CMOS technology, and generally, exposure latitude gets more limited at higher ISO levels.

Thank you. Everything you and Rodeo have written is true. With the short time with the sigma SD (an older model) I've found a few undocumented settings as well as a couple of things that were renamed and not in the manual or updated on the site. So, I was holding out hoping it was me. It seems maybe the auto exposure is working even though the manual claims it isn't functioning in M mode. I was hoping someone experienced the same thing using the sigma and would go "oh, you need to change the thingamabob to under thingamabob.... For whatever the reason, this camera is hamstringed by the sensor or software and pushing the iso isn't a good option. Apparently I may have to work my shooting around full sunlit days if I want bird stoppage and crisp poses.

 

Upping the iso was the first thing I tried, but like you said, the noise was unacceptable. But there is a update coming soon I think.

 

The lenses get rave revues, the body, not so much.

The fovean concept is still ahead of it's time, but it's coming. Computer chips and programming are where it's at and the fact that camera bodies are capable of +2000 iso with almost no noise tells me it's in the software and algorithms yet to be written.

While there might be Foveon related software shortcomings, like the RAW converter that reviewers didn't seem to like, I doubt that any sensor, one of us bought, has significant hidden potential. If a 2050(?) model Sigma camera will do well at high ISO, that'll be fine. But to solve your current problem, I'd suggest to look for something else than shutterspeed to freeze your bird's motion.

Using the 100-400 hsm art to shoot birds with a tripod at fairly close range

Sounds like an option for flash? - Drag your shutter to get the background properly exposed.

No, I don't shoot Sigma cameras, but I have their dim 70-300, to mount on my *istD, which isn't a low light wonder either.

Thank you for that information. What lens was that shot with?

An old 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkor.

I was quite surprised that the lens resolution actually still outstripped the camera sensor.

 

Sorry you've had no comeback from other Sigma Foveon users, but I suspect that shows just how 'popular' those cameras are.

 

I remember a bird photographer called Eric Hosking (or Hoskins?) used to use flash for close up pictures of birds. That was when 400 ISO film was all we had. Flash should work for birds at a feeder or suchlike.

 

Maybe you could get better lighting by putting the flash in a brolly. Direct on-camera flash looks hideous.

Edited September 9, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

Well, you guys scored on that. I used a old Oscram flash that I somehow got to work with the sigma. The sigma has sync of 160 I think. I'm experimenting with the flash, and yes flash can look hideous. I may be able to pull bird shots off at the feeder and hummers too. Diffusion is a must. I do have the 17/70 mm that will also work with the proper setup and most likely in sunlight will be able to use shorter shutter speeds correctly. I don't think I want to invest in yet another sigma proprietary piece of equipment like their own flash unit. That to me is unnecessary marketing. But I'm fairly sure a modern flash unit will work fine with it.

 

Now I have to just go out to set it up and freeze my butt off because the weather is changing here.

I'm disappointed with the lack of acceptance of the foveon and general information but I appreciate you all for the input. Perhaps some more time on the forums some other determined sigma SD/H user has worked something out.

 

Stay safe.

Well, in bright daylight, the sigma is amazing. And this is with a long lens when it wasn't even necessary when I had a 70mm which could of done the job, but I'm learning and pushing the long lens for location shoots. SPP raw to extracted JPG for the crop. I cropped them using XnViewMP and probably could have cropped in SPP? Either way, obviously birding can be done in good light with the SD, but right now we seemed capped at 600 to 800 max iso. I can live with that for now. No processing set except what the default is and this is straight out of the camera, no photoshop.

 

@sigmaalex920 look for an incoming DM.